Author Topic: The hearings have started, watch the hearings  (Read 17869 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline felice

  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #105 on: October 11, 2007, 11:08:25 PM »
I liked Mr. Kildee,
especially when he suggested that NATSAP should be
"Part of the solution, not the problem" :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2007, 06:53:32 AM »
Yeah miller did touch on these issues briefly and I was glad that he mentioned the home state thing. i note his own state has some good rules here. But i suppose my concern is that the actual "therapies" that the boarding schools use may be over looked. Particularly the less sensational but equally punishing ones (peer pressure, mail censoring, no holidays
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2007, 09:38:31 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
He also stated that he advocates for treatment near home, and is opposed to kids crossing state lines. How he would mandate this, remains to be seen. But, it could put a significant dent in the industry cash flow.

A huge dent. Seems like some programs specifically take only kids from out of state. Much fewer legal complications that way.


The mother of Erica (one of the woman who lost a child) also said that kids shouldn’t be sent too far from home.  All the crossing over state lines laws seems to be an issue.

My Daughter was out of state for wilderness but was closer to home for the TBS we chose.  I would agree that the closer the school you chose the better but sometimes the better places are further away so it could be a tough call choosing between a lower quality school because of its location.

These are definitely issues that should be discussed with parents in the early phases of placement.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline stoodoodog

  • Posts: 181
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2007, 10:12:08 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
He also stated that he advocates for treatment near home, and is opposed to kids crossing state lines. How he would mandate this, remains to be seen. But, it could put a significant dent in the industry cash flow.

A huge dent. Seems like some programs specifically take only kids from out of state. Much fewer legal complications that way.


It was definitely a thorn in the side of PV to have a child whose parent was against the program living close enough to be able to drive out onto the Peninsula and see enough odd goings on to raise many, MANY red flags...
People, many of them local professionals (MD's, PhD's, LCSW's, MSW's) who should know more about PV kept telling me "at least when she is at PV you will get to see her. I did not get to see her or talk to her for the better part of the time she was sitting on her bed 24/7 in the lockdown "assessment"  unit. After her restraint, (described on the facility questions and answers thread around Page 6) PV issued me a list of conditions I would have to follow if I wanted to have any contact with her. I followed all of the conditions for several months and was still not allowed ANY contact with her except through heavily censored mail.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm

  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Lack of competent care and loss of control
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2007, 10:59:04 AM »
I am not sure that controlling out-of-state placement provides an effective protection. I mean, if I live in Idaho, then I have to place my child in Idaho, and it's hello BCA and NWA and Arbeit macht frei.

As I've said before, I think licensing and accreditation are better than nothing, but they provide false reassurance to parents considering schools. It would be interesting to know how the schools are spinning the hearings and the GAO report. ("Oh, yes, well those other schools are bad, but we're licensed and accredited.") IMHO, these schools are less accountable for their treatment of children than are carnys.

Aren't the belly button issues lack of truly competent/therapeutic care, and loss of liberty/control? (Maybe others, too, you tell me.)

As Oz Girl said,
Quote
i assume that it is still early days but one thing that concerned me after now watching the full 2 hrs is that the fact that the idea of tough love or a forced "therapeutic" environment is inherently a bad idea was not really focused on. Nor was the idea of incarceration without due process.

As important as it is to highlight the deaths in wilderness, there are many kids who are OK physically and even get good medical treatment but who are devistated by the process or who are surprisingly resilient but have the most miserable couple of years of their young lives. While legislation is limited in that it can only really set about bare minimum requirements and specific penalties for breaching such rules, as opposed to getting rid of programs it would still be good to focus more on this.


For me the aspect of all this that makes my blood run backwards is the incarceration without due process. If a parent decided to lock a child in their house and home school them, couldn't he or she be charged with child maltreatment? In my state, I think yes.


AuntieEm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Lack of competent care and loss of control
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2007, 11:34:01 AM »
Quote from: ""AuntieEm""
As I've said before, I think licensing and accreditation are better than nothing, but they provide false reassurance to parents considering schools. It would be interesting to know how the schools are spinning the hearings and the GAO report. ("Oh, yes, well those other schools are bad, but we're licensed and accredited.") IMHO, these schools are less accountable for their treatment of children than are carnys.

Precisely why the GAO needs to hear the reality of abuse in currently licensed facilities. Anyone whose child was abuse, who experienced fraud/deception with a licensed/accredited program needs to send that information to the GAO, particularly if it was a NATSAP program.

Quote
For me the aspect of all this that makes my blood run backwards is the incarceration without due process. If a parent decided to lock a child in their house and home school them, couldn't he or she be charged with child maltreatment? In my state, I think yes.


Such cases have been posted on Fornits.
It's already understood in the mental health field that you are not allowed to sever contact between parent and child without a court order. It must be proven that the relationship is detrimental to the child. The blanket policy in the industry carried over from the CEDU method needs to be highlighted and brougth to the GAOs attention.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164659
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2007, 01:10:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Couldn't run the ABC news segment either. Now THAT I REALLY could use!


If the abc.com link doesn't work, you can download the ABC News story here:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/936741
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline exhausted

  • Posts: 596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2007, 03:06:00 PM »
They took it all off...propoganda rules in USA

fuck your justice system
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5602
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2007, 03:30:10 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
They took it all off...propoganda rules in USA

fuck your justice system
What justice system?  You have to have justice somewhere to have a justice system.

If anything does disappear, just let me know.  We can mirror it on Fornits.  How to get it to me?  Post a torrent on thepiratebay.org then let me know and i'll download it...  Alternatively, you could Yim/aim me and send it to me directly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5602
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #114 on: October 12, 2007, 03:35:01 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Couldn't run the ABC news segment either. Now THAT I REALLY could use!

If the abc.com link doesn't work, you can download the ABC News story here:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/936741


please seed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164659
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2007, 03:36:33 PM »
That ABC story(Good Morning America) rocked - very powerful!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2007, 06:53:21 PM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Couldn't run the ABC news segment either. Now THAT I REALLY could use!

If the abc.com link doesn't work, you can download the ABC News story here:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/936741

please seed.


Done.

I'll see if I can get some help...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline hanzomon4

  • Posts: 1334
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2007, 07:13:30 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
They took it all off...propoganda rules in USA

fuck your justice system


Who ABC?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline BuzzKill

  • Posts: 1815
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2007, 08:33:20 PM »
Looks like the GAO hearing has triggered interest from at least one
 British newspaper:
 
 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 641635.ece


Print this page

From The Times
October 12, 2007
Torture, starvation and death: how American boot camps abuse boys

Image :1 of 4
Tim Reid in Washington
Thousands of teenagers sent to American boot camps have suffered horrific abuse and some have paid with their lives, according to a shocking new report by the US Congress.

The report, presented with harrowing testimony from parents of three teenagers who died at boot camps, comes as a Florida manslaughter trial opened into the death of Martin Lee Anderson, 14. He was filmed being beaten by camp guards minutes before he died, footage seen not only inside the courtroom but on television screens across America.

The Government Accountability Office, the US Congress investigative arm, identified 1,619 incidents of child abuse in 33 states in 2005. It selected ten deaths since 1990 for special investigation in boot camps and “wilderness programmesâ€
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline exhausted

  • Posts: 596
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #119 on: October 13, 2007, 01:39:03 PM »
Quote from: ""BuzzKill""
Looks like the GAO hearing has triggered interest from at least one
 British newspaper:
Don't applaud them yet

I have just this second watched the news and it is reported he died from a 'blood disorder' meh, wankers

Staff in boot camp case walk free  
By Vincent Dowd
BBC News, Washington  


 
Video footage showed Martin Anderson being beaten
Eight defendants have been acquitted of manslaughter in the case of a teenager who died after being punched and kicked at a Florida boot camp.
Martin Lee Anderson, 14, died a day after the beating was administered by guards at the camp in January 2006.

A jury took only 90 minutes to decide the seven instructors and one nurse at the Bay County boot camp in north-west Florida were not guilty of his death.

Video tape shows the teenager being hit and dragged about by the guards.

The video was recorded on the camp surveillance system.

 
 You kill a dog, you go to jail - you kill a little black boy and nothing happens

But giving testimony during the trial, two doctors told the court the death was attributable to an undiagnosed blood disorder which the instructors could not have known about.

The defendants testified they had not attacked Anderson, but had followed the rules of the camp, designed to instil discipline into juveniles sent there.

They said they had suspected Anderson of faking illness to avoid exercise.

Camp closures

Martin Lee Anderson's death has already led to the resignation of the head of Florida's Department of Law Enforcement and all juvenile boot camps in the state have since been closed.

The family are to receive $5m to settle civil claims.

Speaking after the not guilty verdict, the family's lawyer told journalists: "You kill a dog, you go to jail - you kill a little black boy and nothing happens."

Had the all-white jury found the eight defendants guilty, they could have faced up to 30 years in jail.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »