Holding parents accountable

[lorrispickelmire]

I moderate a group for survivors and belong to several others, and let me tell you some of the survivors are just barely, and the percentage of people who have never recovered from the abuse is phenomenal.

[Anonymous]

There is no generally accepted scientific evidence that residential therapeutic facilities help any of the kids they treat. All of the available evidence say that the best claim therapeutic boarding schools can make is that they didn't harm the kids too much.

If your kid needs help, don't send him to a residential therapeutic facility looking for it. For that matter, go get help yourself first. If your kid is fucked up, you are the one that did it. If you can't see that, get help from someone who can help you see it.

[TheWho]

I do know that. I was one of those kids - and 28 of the 30 I was in with didn't need help either.

That is your un-educated experience of a few kids out of tens of thousands.  Society says otherwise.  the majority of the kids benefit from the programs they go to.

[TheWho]

There is no generally accepted scientific evidence that residential therapeutic facilities help any of the kids they treat. All of the available evidence say that the best claim therapeutic boarding schools can make is that they didn't harm the kids too much.

If your kid needs help, don't send him to a residential therapeutic facility looking for it. For that matter, go get help yourself first. If your kid is fucked up, you are the one that did it. If you can't see that, get help from someone who can help you see it.

Just call up the schools and ask to speak with some parents and ask a lot of very hard questions about their kids.  You will see that the schools are very effective

[hanzomon4]

I do know that. I was one of those kids - and 28 of the 30 I was in with didn't need help either.

That is your un-educated experience of a few kids out of tens of thousands.  Society says otherwise.  the majority of the kids benefit from the programs they go to.

Uneducated, you must be talking about program staff....

Rachel is frighteningly smart, she is the only person I would seriously ask to build me a lightsaber and expect to get it.

[Anonymous]

Industry shills pumping for more business.  These programs are only after money. They make $1 billion a year off maybe 12,000 to 14,000 kids.  There is no evidence that these programs help any of the kids subjected to them. Kids survive the programs, they don't benefit from them.

There is no other way for people with marginal educations to make as much money as they can make out of therapeutic boarding schools. The owners of these therapeutic boarding schools can make over $1 million a year off of them. If you are looking for help for your kid, look somewhere else.

[Deborah]

If an unintentional by-product of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima was someone coming to a new amazing revelation about the nature of their very soul - it would be irrelevant to the fact that thousands died. It doesn't mean it's irrelevant in and of itself - just that in the story of how thousands burned to death or experienced life-long debilitating after-effects, it has no significance.

Yes but what if 3 people need to die to prevent the bomb from dropping on hiroshima?
Are 3 deaths worth while?  Should we shut down the entire industry because a percentage die? Maybe?  What do we say to all the kids who can benefit from these schools, who now have no place to go?

Why not focus on preventing the 3 deaths and saving the other kids as well?

Miller said that 3 deaths were too many. As any sane individual knows, legitimte therapy doesn't expose clients to the risk of death.
Options to the industry were also suggested- local services. Miller doesn't want kids crossing state lines. Kids should be close to home so their parents can check on them frequently, unannounced.
Local wrap around services is a good place to start.

[Deborah]

Industry shills pumping for more business.  These programs are only after money. They make $1 billion a year off maybe 12,000 to 14,000 kids.  There is no evidence that these programs help any of the kids subjected to them. Kids survive the programs, they don't benefit from them.

There is no other way for people with marginal educations to make as much money as they can make out of therapeutic boarding schools. The owners of these therapeutic boarding schools can make over $1 million a year off of them. If you are looking for help for your kid, look somewhere else.

FWIW, NATSAP claimed today that 16,000 kids go through their 180 programs per year.

[Pitbull Mom]

Pitbull Mom wrote:

Survivors who have not yet become parents will never understand the complexities of parenting until they have their own kids. It doesn't come with a manual. I am an involved mom with active kids. I have NEVER met a parent yet who "gets off on their kid's suffering". I have never met a parent who just decides to send their kid to a hellhole. Wouldn't even occur to 99% of parents. A parent would have to be on the emotional level of Jeffery Dahmer to even entertain such thoughts.

I am a survivor who was tortured in one of these programs, and I am the mother of a 19 year old son. You are either stupid or terribly gullible.

I am neither

There are parents all over the place that get off on their children's suffering, if there weren't, we wouldn't need a department of the government set up for the protection of such children.  

True, but those aren't the parents we were discussing. We were discussing parents like myself.  To use your analogy, there are parents all over the place who love their kids, provide a warm nurturing environment, and their kids still end up with severe emotional problems, often due to mental health problems. If they didn't we wouldn't need child psychiatrists.

My father is a sadist and a child rapist, so I know of which I speak on a very personal level.

I'm sorry for that. Mine was too, so I too speak on a very personal level.

A parent who sends their child off without thoroughly investigating a facility and all allegations of abuse associated with them is culpable for any abuse that should happen to their child.

I'ld like to see your statistics on the % of parents that don't thoroghly investigate a facility. Most do. I did. The facility where my son died was clean, good food, mostly good employees, phones, was licensed, no reports of abuse, yada yada yada. That is no guarantee that an abuse situation can't develop.

I will agree with you that there is no manual, but that is not an excuse for negligence.

I did not say that not having a parent manual was an excuse for negligence. What I said was that it's black and white thinking to say that parents bear all the  repsonsibility for everything that is wrong with the teen industry. Parents whose kids end up abused, or worse-dead, are filled with huge remorse.  Negligence is the responsiblity of the persons dishing out the abuse.  Obviously parents who knowingly put their child in danger are negligent, but I sincerely doubt that you have any proof that most parents who have put their kids in treatment programs did it knowingly. I'm not defending negligent parents. I'm just saying you can't lump them all into the same bucket.

[TheWho]

Sigh.... Its difficult to get people to understand that life/situations are not all black and white, Pitbull mom....everything is lumped into one bucket here....all the parents are the same...all the schools are the same...all the kids are abused...all the staff are abusive.  I imagine it makes it easier for them to function as a group so they dont have varying opinions that conflict with one another.  If they admitted that one parent made a good decision to get their child help they would have to open their minds to the possibility that there are possibly more and that would blow their entire thought base.

I find it best to speak to the readers, for the most part, who are potentially more open minded.

[Anonymous]

Just call up the schools and ask to speak with some parents and ask a lot of very hard questions about their kids.  You will see that the schools are very effective

Is this your idea of peer reviewed clinical research? Just call up some parents and ask some hard questions about their kids?

While you're at it, why not ask these same parents for their thoughts on which new drugs are most likely to cure cancer?!

[lorrispickelmire]

Pitbull Mom,
You are right about some things you said, and I do have a tendency to see it in black and white.  I am a survivor of a home that was known for abuse, information was readily available and the parents who chose to place their kids in that particular home were absolutely wrong to do so.  I don't know about the facility you placed your son in but I do sympathize your loss.  I am not saying wanting to get help for their kids makes parents bad parents.  I feel as a society we have come to think of our children as problems, and their are a lot of self-absorbed people who are just flat out throwing their children away.  Several of the ladies that were in the home I was in were dropped off knowing that their parents were never coming back.  They were given to the home by their parents knowing that they were at the mercy of the staff until they were 18.  So you are right, the percentages are skewed among the survivors of that particular program.

I do sympathize your loss of your child, and I hope you will accept my apology, I should not lump everyone together with my own parents.  Please also keep an open mind regarding how many parents are just willing to throw their kids away, because they are out there and that is where all the anger toward parents comes from.  You can never absolutely protect your children, but a lot of parents don't even try.  I know you are not one of these, but they do exist.

[Deborah]

Sigh.... Its difficult to get people to understand that life/situations are not all black and white, Pitbull mom....everything is lumped into one bucket here....all the parents are the same...all the schools are the same...all the kids are abused...all the staff are abusive.  I imagine it makes it easier for them to function as a group so they dont have varying opinions that conflict with one another.  If they admitted that one parent made a good decision to get their child help they would have to open their minds to the possibility that there are possibly more and that would blow their entire thought base.

I find it best to speak to the readers, for the most part, who are potentially more open minded.

The two programs you have experience with are known abusive programs. ASR one of the most renegade mavericks of the bunch, staunch in their refusal to submit to state regulations. If the two you support are abusive, how can you possibly claim that the majority (of which you have no knowledge) are ethical?

[Che Gookin]

I think the point in regards to this topic is that after a certain point some parents must be held responsible. In cases where parents have been given the information and do nothing, when after program they learn that their child has been abused and choose to deny it or play the victim to AVOID guilt, when parents blame the child for being placed in an abusive program, and of course the parent that's just evil... I could go on but obviously some parents are as responsible as the program for abuse, not all but some.

No the point of this topic is to introduce my Shithead Parent Manifesto. The rest is trolling by the Who and a few parents whining and crying. Also a few survivors have spoken up as well in a very exemplary fashion.

Well done you brave few.

SHITHEAD Parent Manifesto:

Parents I will only be nice to you to help win your child free of whatever program you incarcerated them in.

Parents I will only continue to be nice if you refrain from sending your child to a second programme and apologize to your child for his or her wrongful incarceration.

Parents I will only be nice if you take it upon yourself to address your total lack of parenting skills which more than likely resulted in your child's struggles in the first place.

Parents I will no longer fall for this flimsy excuse of you claiming brain-washing. Brain-washing is an unwilling process that involves a great deal more than just a few phone calls and seminars. In all reality what you experienced is your own sadism, gullibility, or ignorance.

Some of you parents have taken it upon yourselves to break your kids free of the programmes in a very short span of time and have admitted your mistakes. My hat goes off to you and you will retain my good will.

The rest of you parent let it be known that from this day forward I now fully support any legislation that calls for the charging of parents for child abuse for sending your child to an abusive programme.

I've seen the crappy parents come by the dozens. They drop their kids and run. They claim their kids are out of control!!

OH NO!!

They fall prey to the slick sales talk of the industry. They ignore their kids pleas when they get letters revealing the truth about happy camp!


This is why I support a law charging parents with child abuse when they fail to ensure the safety of their children in a programme.

PB Mom if any of this was directed at you I would have called you out in the original post. I'm saying what I feel from my own personal experiences. I've seen the parents come and go and the one strongest truism you will find from programme to programme goes like this:

To find out what is wrong with the kid you have to meet the parents.

[TheWho]

Sigh.... Its difficult to get people to understand that life/situations are not all black and white, Pitbull mom....everything is lumped into one bucket here....all the parents are the same...all the schools are the same...all the kids are abused...all the staff are abusive.  I imagine it makes it easier for them to function as a group so they dont have varying opinions that conflict with one another.  If they admitted that one parent made a good decision to get their child help they would have to open their minds to the possibility that there are possibly more and that would blow their entire thought base.

I find it best to speak to the readers, for the most part, who are potentially more open minded.

The two programs you have experience with are known abusive programs. ASR one of the most renegade mavericks of the bunch, staunch in their refusal to submit to state regulations. If the two you support are abusive, how can you possibly claim that the majority (of which you have no knowledge) are ethical?

Oh, come on Deb, spit it out you always beat around the bush or hover… Here, I will say it for you “They are all abusive programs dam it, all 180 of them!!!  And 16,000 children are abused or killed every year, every single one of them!!â€