Holding parents accountable

[Che Gookin]

Well whenever the who sounds in I know I'm on the right track.

Congrats Pitbull Mom and Buzzkill you both fail horridly based on association via the who.

[Antigen]

Now - I am not saying what they do is "OK" - that this is an excuse. I am saying it is the reason they are so strange and irrational with regard to their children and the program.


I would hope that pointing this out to them might help them begin the process of "waking up". Hopefully, before to much damage is done.

I would also hope it might help some of the kids realize why their parents have become cold, callous bitches and bastards. It might help them heal, if they understand their parents were deceived, and literally fukked in the head.

I agree with this, I knew my parents were brainwashed going in. It helped a lot more than I ever realized till I started making friends with other program vets. There was a stark difference between my mom and dad. Mom loved this shit, took to it like a duck to water. It took her a solid 10 years to really drag my dad along to close to that degree. He actually had a higher fidelity to himself and us kids than to the program. Mom's still high as fuck on the shit.

About the Zero tolerance factor - the more I think about it, the more I feel this is worth focusing on. We really should formulate a reasonable substance abuse policy and promote it with every elected official we possibly can.

Shall we talk about what might be reasonable?

How about a constitutional substance abuse policy? I think the one we had up until 1914 worked pretty good. It was exactly no less effective at addressing personal substance abuse than the policy we have now plus it cost exactly nothing and did exactly no harm in the process.

By that time, this fucked up hippie experiment of a nation had cut the Panama Canal, built the trans-continental railway, gave the world Samuel Clemens, Thoreau and sweet potatos. (sorry for the tobacco) Overall, I think the experiment worked out pretty well. I want the old deal back, damn it!

[Anonymous]

Waygookin changes his mind on an hourly basis. It is funny he does not play the name and shame program staff game. He likens program parents to murderers on one thread and sorrowfully brags about the amount of restraints he performed on another. He every so often has a tantrum and loudly says he is gone for good only to show up the next day. Every so often he will also have the nerve to challenge people about what they are doing to help kids without knowing anything about them yet his own primary contribution appears to be bragging about the amount of hookers he has fucked and playing idiotic mind games. He sometimes has a point but it is hard to take his condemnation seriously because of his hypocrisy and school boy stupidity.

[Oz girl]

How about a constitutional substance abuse policy? I think the one we had up until 1914 worked pretty good. It was exactly no less effective at addressing personal substance abuse than the policy we have now plus it cost exactly nothing and did exactly no harm in the process.

By that time, this fucked up hippie experiment of a nation had cut the Panama Canal, built the trans-continental railway, gave the world Samuel Clemens, Thoreau and sweet potatos. (sorry for the tobacco) Overall, I think the experiment worked out pretty well. I want the old deal back, damn it!

There was a national substance abuse policy in the US? What was it? Was it's ethos centred around harm minimization? Libertarianism? i am intrigued.

[Che Gookin]

Waygookin changes his mind on an hourly basis. It is funny he does not play the name and shame program staff game. He likens program parents to murderers on one thread and sorrowfully brags about the amount of restraints he performed on another. He every so often has a tantrum and loudly says he is gone for good only to show up the next day. Every so often he will also have the nerve to challenge people about what they are doing to help kids without knowing anything about them yet his own primary contribution appears to be bragging about the amount of hookers he has fucked and playing idiotic mind games. He sometimes has a point but it is hard to take his condemnation seriously because of his hypocrisy and school boy stupidity.

Oz girl I still luv yah!

[TheWho]

Congratulations, sticking by your child and staying focused on their best interest no matter what eventually pays off and you have proven that.

Too bad that doesn't involve placement in a program and isolation from their child and later having censored, monitored communication with their parents while in a program, or subjecting them to a program's ideas of "therapy" against their will without medical (or any) need, Who.

Parents who do a good job should be mature enough to not need their ass kissed. If they're that fucking immature and need kudos and pats on the back they really shouldn't be parents anyway, but its too late to fix that, now isn't it?

Your whitewashed, alternate-universe fairytale you just posted about in a idealized program's view of "the process" the parents go through while the children are incarcerated can make a first time reader think they're useful, but the lack of anything of substance besides press released and P.R. such as what you're posting speak for themselves in time if they're willing to do research.

I realize it is frustrating reading some of these accounts of how kids did poorly in some of these programs, but you have to realize that this doesnt represent the majority of the kids, you can rest assure the vast majority are doing great...until a clinical study is done you probably will not be convinced, and that is okay because it wont effect you personally.  As for the parents, they can contact the schools and ask to speak to parents who have had kids graduate or drop in unannounced and walk around the campus, have lunch with the kids, talk to the teachers etc. (thats what I did) and see for themselves...they dont need to take our word for it or guess who is right or wrong.

But I do always enjoy this discussion with you Niles and I thank you for keeping it mature and civil this time.

[Antigen]

yep more or less.

More...

d) I was pretty fucking brainwashed when my kid was a toddler and some flunky w/ a teaching certificate told me my kid was disordered. Of course, I didn't know it then (duh! brainwashed?) and I've barely started to get a grasp of it now. But what TSW says about the Allied/American attitude toward former Nazis is dead on. Look at the industry as the analogous to the core of Nazi true believers in the decades leading up to TIME Magazine naming Adolph Hitler man of the year. No, look really close because there are many ties. The family fortune behind Seed/Straight is none other than Harriman Walker Bush. And they group psychology is just the same.

This is a broad, systemic cultural problem. That there exists a market for this bullshit is the problem.

Trivia question: What was the name of the banking/holding company that took the bullet for CEDU

Crib: Google Harriman brown cedu

[Nihilanthic]

I realize it is frustrating reading some of these accounts of how kids did poorly in some of these programs, but you have to realize that this doesnt represent the majority of the kids, you can rest assure the vast majority are doing great...until a clinical study is done you probably will not be convinced, and that is okay because it wont effect you personally. As for the parents, they can contact the schools and ask to speak to parents who have had kids graduate or drop in unannounced and walk around the campus, have lunch with the kids, talk to the teachers etc. (thats what I did) and see for themselves...thsy dont need to take our word for it or guess who is right or wrong.

The only proof anyone has is that it is bad. What is known about them is INTRINSICALLY WRONG. The vast majority has NO DATA TO BACK UP ANY OF THEIR CLAIMS AND THEY SHOW EVERY INDICATION OF BEING JUST ANOTHER QUACK WAREHOUSE.

Getting a sales pitch from someone trying to sell the program to justify it or make money (You might as well ask me to talk to Sue Scheff about programs) is hardly proof. The burden of proof is on the programs, and for 30 years they've given nothing, but others who have looked into it have seen hell on earth, empty promises, and quack bullshit to the core.

Isolation and coercion for a fucking year with LGAT and "emotional growth" mind fuck is not helpful.

And, this shit does effect me personally. My conscience has a very hard time accepting this goes on and that I've only been able to do what little I have to put a stop to it and greedy or stupid fucks such as yourself still exist on this world and breathe my air!

But I do always enjoy this discussion with you Niles and I thank you for keeping it mature and civil this time.

Mature, CIVIL? I am not a fucking conversation partner or a colleague of yours and you can go stick a retractable batonâ„¢ up your ass regarding enjoying a "Discussion". You're spewing bullshit and playing damage control and P.R. and show every fucking indication of being a member of or in some way related to this fucked up industry and frankly I personally wish you'd get lost out at sea and die.

You take comments said in jest and satire and try to paint me as a racist and a bigot, when everyone, even the most stupid among humanity know I'm damn well a misanthrope, making it impossible for me to be racist or even bigoted, as that would require me to like someone!

Get your story right, asshole, FOAD.

Love,
Niles

[Che Gookin]

I think Ginger you are mistaking my op for something different. I was comparing the lack of Nazis in Germany to the lack of parental responsibility in the program parent population.

After the war there wasn't but 2 nazis left in germany.

On fornits and the rest of the world how many parents have genuinely said, "I screwed up by not doing my very best to protect my child from a dangerous programme."

You just rarely see it.

Most of the time they claim brainwashing or bad advice. Now I can agree to some extent with you that their is a definite cultural trend amongst the American population that leads people to make some seriously absurd decisions regarding their children's welfare.

But that isn't brainwashing. That is blind acceptance of culture and to willingly be blind to the dangers that are out their for you child is parental neglect.

Nothing more nothing less.

[TheWho]

yep more or less.

More...

d) I was pretty fucking brainwashed when my kid was a toddler and some flunky w/ a teaching certificate told me my kid was disordered. Of course, I didn't know it then (duh! brainwashed?) and I've barely started to get a grasp of it now. But what TSW says about the Allied/American attitude toward former Nazis is dead on. Look at the industry as the analogous to the core of Nazi true believers in the decades leading up to TIME Magazine naming Adolph Hitler man of the year. No, look really close because there are many ties. The family fortune behind Seed/Straight is none other than Harriman Walker Bush. And they group psychology is just the same.

This is a broad, systemic cultural problem. That there exists a market for this bullshit is the problem.


Crib: Google Harriman brown cedu

Republic Bank (Bank of America Branch?)


...

[TheWho]

I realize it is frustrating reading some of these accounts of how kids did poorly in some of these programs, but you have to realize that this doesnt represent the majority of the kids, you can rest assure the vast majority are doing great...until a clinical study is done you probably will not be convinced, and that is okay because it wont effect you personally. As for the parents, they can contact the schools and ask to speak to parents who have had kids graduate or drop in unannounced and walk around the campus, have lunch with the kids, talk to the teachers etc. (thats what I did) and see for themselves...thsy dont need to take our word for it or guess who is right or wrong.

The only proof anyone has is that it is bad. What is known about them is INTRINSICALLY WRONG. The vast majority has NO DATA TO BACK UP ANY OF THEIR CLAIMS AND THEY SHOW EVERY INDICATION OF BEING JUST ANOTHER QUACK WAREHOUSE.

Getting a sales pitch from someone trying to sell the program to justify it or make money (You might as well ask me to talk to Sue Scheff about programs) is hardly proof. The burden of proof is on the programs, and for 30 years they've given nothing, but others who have looked into it have seen hell on earth, empty promises, and quack bullshit to the core.

Isolation and coercion for a fucking year with LGAT and "emotional growth" mind fuck is not helpful.

And, this shit does effect me personally. My conscience has a very hard time accepting this goes on and that I've only been able to do what little I have to put a stop to it and greedy or stupid fucks such as yourself still exist on this world and breathe my air!

But I do always enjoy this discussion with you Niles and I thank you for keeping it mature and civil this time.

Mature, CIVIL? I am not a fucking conversation partner or a colleague of yours and you can go stick a retractable batonâ„¢ up your ass regarding enjoying a "Discussion". You're spewing bullshit and playing damage control and P.R. and show every fucking indication of being a member of or in some way related to this fucked up industry and frankly I personally wish you'd get lost out at sea and die.

You take comments said in jest and satire and try to paint me as a racist and a bigot, when everyone, even the most stupid among humanity know I'm damn well a misanthrope, making it impossible for me to be racist or even bigoted, as that would require me to like someone!

Get your story right, asshole, FOAD.

Love,
Niles

Sorry, Niles...guess we can scratch the civil/maturity comments (but you made a good run at, its almost midnight) .....  your remarks are racist and bigotry, but you can flash your rights to offend people, this is america.

As far as the isolation long term placement etc. being abusive or ineffective you are going to have to show me some long term studies to support your position (something current) because there is a plathora of kids graduating eveyday that tell you that you are wrong and they are flooding the top schools in america...if this is what you call abuse or ineffective then I think most parents will embrace it..... the only thing you offer is a lifetime living on the streets with no education...

No sales pitch...talk to the schools or parents who have been thru it, talk to the kids who graduated

[Anonymous]

I screwed up by not doing everything I could to protect my son from a program. I have been busting my ass to get him out for over six months now. There appears to be light at the end of the tunnel.

[Anonymous]

Previous post is an actual parent.

[program victims] flooding the top schools in america

::roflmao::

Do you even read what you write anymore?

Plenty of people trying to use program graduations as real diplomas, Who, and finding it doesn't, well, work. Ivy Ridge got pwned trying to pass its diplomas off as valid. Rememebr that?

[TheWho]

Previous post is an actual parent.

[program victims] flooding the top schools in america

::roflmao::

Do you even read what you write anymore?

Plenty of people trying to use program graduations as real diplomas, Who, and finding it doesn't, well, work. Ivy Ridge got pwned trying to pass its diplomas off as valid. Rememebr that?

Most kids with a high PSAT or SAT apply and get accepted prior to graduation and then transfer their credits to their previous highschool for a diploma or they could just accept the TBS's diplomma.  This is one way.... I guess if you wait to graduate and then try to apply to universities they may wonder why you waited and question your drive or ambition to succeed and would pass you over....  you need to be agressive and apply before graduation.

[Anonymous]

TheWho is like a pinata- keep hitting him hard enough, and fun stuff comes out!

Most kids with a high PSAT or SAT apply and get accepted prior to graduation and then transfer their credits to their previous highschool for a diploma or they could just accept the TBS's diplomma.

What credits, Who? What diploma? Most of these hellholes don't even pretend to be offering an education, and the ones that do don't actually give real credits applicable ANYWHERE! Does the word 'unaccredited' mean anything- anything at all- to you? It sure does to the colleges!

Besides, most truly smart kids don't end up in these shitpits, as they know enough to counter their parents' insanity before it starts. The exceptions, such as Psy and Rachael, post here.

This is one way.... I guess if you wait to graduate

My FUCKING GOD, Who. Listen to yourself. Again, you have no business using that word, "graduate". We are talking not about schools but about places where anyone can be prevented from "graduating" at any time.

Imagine telling that to a college. "Hi, I have these credits from this unaccredited shitpit calling itself a school, and I might get level-dropped any time meaning that I have no idea whether or not I'll "graduate" from this shithole, but can you please accept me anyway?"