Author Topic: Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop  (Read 3331 times)

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Offline Paul St. John

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« on: June 12, 2003, 02:38:00 AM »
Three Quick Examples

They are small examples, but think about it.

Parents are sending their childredn to these places to better themselves.

This Program that I attended is government suported, and is of course still striving, less then an hour away from my home.

I was sent there by my school.

1. The kids at Daytop were told to count the kids who did not eat Daytop food, and as well, the kids who were absent and to put them down as having eaten, in order to get more government funding.

2. Kids were treated most harshly when they allowed parents to know of specific things that went on there.  After a child had done this, they would be broken down by the group so sufficiently, that it was sure to never happen again.  Telling the truth was pretty much always considerred manipulating.  Just as being rational was almost always considerred rationalising..lol

3. One of our counselours was once leaving the program to go to another that was offerring more money.. The coordinators of the counselour s case group, planned a Met s game for us all to go to as a farewell gift to him.  We went to the game.. There was probably 20 of us there. ( all teens)
As we were leaving the game, the counselor crashed the Daytop van into a car behind him, damaging it.  He got out of there with his van full of children as quick as he could. He was actually my favorite counselour too.


They re small, but they are also obviouse and easy to point out, and not the reason that a parent would send a kid to such a place.

Paul St. John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul St. John

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2003, 02:06:00 AM »
The program was designed and set up in such a way as that one of the primary long-term objectives was that the child surrened their will to the "Great and Mighty" Counselors. (MOST ESPECAILLY the counselours of their case file)
This was brought about in numerous ways, which could is probably beyond sufficient to be a topic all on it s own.  So with time, all those who gave in to the program, and where I went, there were very many set the counslor up as an almost omniscient idol in their minds.

Now, in the example where the counselor hit into the car and then left, he laughed it off a bit.  The students respondent as good clones in training would and laughed it off with him.  At that point, the students not onlt sub-consciously accept this ow as okay, but alos associate such activities with humor.  There were a lot of generally honest children, who would have bever responded this way beofre, but as many know what I mea, to challenge the counselour is to challenge the whole group, and so now they have accepted it as okay and even funny.
( BTW, the counselour, supported by group thing is a perfect example of how they trick the childerns mind.. that is the very essence of the tough love model and it is actually quite brilliant. I will cover that n my next post)


Okay so now the children have a new reaction the idea of the dishonesty of hitting a car and taking off.. Now it is okay and funny.

What the big probelm with this other then destroying the moral core of children.  It contitues fraud.  We llive in a society basde on free enterprise.  These rehab centers operate within the ideals of free enterprise.  They are paid by individuals for a product or service which is their ability above and beyond average to "fix" their children.... to make them more honest.. more moral.... more healthy.. "better memebers of society"

Right here, the opposit was accomplished.

Now, if brough your car into a garage to get the it repainted cause it had a few slight scratches, but when you came to get it not only were the scratches still,(though coverred in some prett words, and programmed behaviors..lol), but also there were numerous new scratches, you would be entitled by law to get your money back, get compensation, and most likly after a few cases they would be out of business.

To be honest with you, I do not think that this counselor was even aware of what he was doing half of the time.lol..

But large amounts of moey are being fed to have something fixed.. the most preciouse commodity of them all.. young human being, and they are returned worse off.. not one or two cases, but an uncountable number.


In the example with the lying to get extra government funding.  They are now teaching the childred to cheat tax-payers,... and for what cause?

..so that kids in a place who don t wanna be there, can eat shit they don t even wanna eat..lol

Now, they are still stealing form their parents, but now they have an athority telling them that it is okay.



The last example was about the treatment of those whom told their paren t s what went on in there.

Now, here, parents are unknowingly paying to have a wedge driven between them and their kids.  The fucked up thing about this is that the reason many of their parents send these kids to these places is to " have their child back", which they are assured by counselors will happen under their care.  They market a front.. They do at least train the children to pretend, that their parent s have them back.

They are lyers.

They are cheats.

They are theives.

.. and a truly great specimin of oprganised crime.

More on attcking the child about being honest with parents.

They get the child to renounce themselves, and to isolate from their own good reasoning.

Being hnest with family members, their mind s will now register as " manipualtind", and any time, they try to against their mind in this reguard, and reestablish honesty with family, the fear and humiliation cause by the other "Family",
will most likely stop them in their tracks.


This person will now have a world of problkems to deal with throughout life, that they wouldnt ve otherwise.  Many of these poeple when they start to feel like shit about being honest with their family and not knwo why, as the mind really does not wish us tto remember shit like that, will then start to ask thins such as " What s your with me?"

As soon as person asks something as that, they are often on their way down the slope into unhappiness, and an unhealthy mind state.


This is what they charge for..

Slow attempted murder
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul St. John

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2003, 02:14:00 AM »
It s based on two parts each which support the other.

First, approval and acceptance is witheld from the victim.

This creates a desperate, desire, or wanting apporoval within the child over a period of time.
( different kids, different time variables)

Being treated as no good and unworthy, the child will begin to hunger for approval, and proof of self-worth( even artificail) The child has officailly been broken.

Step One COMPLETE


Now, Comes the second dynamic.. CONTROL

Now, the child has become dependent upon appproval, and approval, the child will seek it, wherever he or she can... and there only really is opne place.. in the environemnt, which is the group.

Now, the peer pressure has been setup as a controlling agent.


Of course, the person could find what they seek within themselves, but it is nearly impossible within such an environment, if possible at all.


Paul St. John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2003, 07:00:00 AM »
What years were you a resident in Daytop?
They still are open today? Damn alot like Elan
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Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2003, 01:11:00 AM »
Hey,

    I was only there for 5 months.  I started in there about 9 years ago. The particular program I was in was only an 18 month program,or at leats was designed to be.  Some got out sooner and some later.  The way it was designed was that you spend 12 months inside, and when they considerred you ready, you got to leave,  nut you were still monitorred by them for another 6 months.


So it was meant to be 12 inside, and 6 under their "care", externally,but it often varied.


     As far as I know the one that I went to is still open today.  Daytop, itself is definatley still open. I Did a google on them recently. A real lot came up.  My brother just recently saw one of their buses driving around..


Paul St.John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2003, 04:39:00 AM »
from what i recall from gottlieb,, who went to daytop, and jim lehman,,elan wasa direct offshoot,,a hybrid of daytop and the seed if you overlay both concepts and ways of manipulation you see its just mind control taken to diff level,, the emphasis bieng  control thru peers and the constant bombardment of mental issues.. lack of love from parents and need of acceptance from peers forces you to behave in the ways they want,, very few were good enuf to fake it all the way thru,, and in my time,,when you didnt act as if,, they beat you and humilated you until u did.. it was a major lesson in peer pressure to me when  my house degraded to a slashfest,, it became the norm for acting out.
if you put a sane man in an asylum,, eventually he will act just like the rest :silly: most residents in my time spent 2 yrs,, unless you signed self out or split,, with rentry program after grad..
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Offline Paul St. John

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2003, 06:01:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-06-21 01:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

way thru,, and in my time,,when you didnt act as if,, they beat you and humilated you until u did.. br>


During the time period in which I went to Daytop, there was no beating at all..just a lot of humiliation, and psychic and emotional beatings.



My whole time there,I never saw a single physical confrontation.  It was strongly forbidden, and nyone involved in any of any type, would be immediately arrested.



if you put a sane man in an asylum,, eventually he will act just like the rest :silly:



Yeah.. I hear ya.  For me, it was very subversive.  I would notice later on down the road that I had taken on behaviors that I hadn t even noticed, whil I was busy trying to fend off others..



 

Paul St.John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2003, 11:39:00 AM »
I see and I can also see how Elan is a direct spin off of Daytop I was in Elan in the 70s I ll
 leave it at that......... to crazy to even go into. Nice to meet you I really enjoy your postings something worth reading Thank you
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Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2003, 01:50:00 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul St. John

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2003, 11:27:00 AM »
I am speechless..absolutley nightmarish.

They use tell us the stories of the old days,
when I was there.

They used the stories to foister guilt on us,
and make us feel that we were somehow privelaged from time to time.

The status member s did this.. not the counselours.


But I never heard suach stories as where he locked the people in that small area, and the repeated rapings of women, and such.

nor of having guys beat the shit out of girl s in boxing rings.

have no words...

Paul St. John
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Offline Paul St. John

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2003, 11:47:00 AM »
Quote

Here is an actual
exerpt from the findings:

"In short, our Illinois team members found the Elan program abhorrent to all accepted standards of child
care. The treatment model seems predicated on suspension of each child's liberties; they become
automations who conform to acceptable behavior patterns after they find it hopeless to resist the will of
their 'masters'."


Wow.  This was a very honest and accurate observation, though it was apparently not heard by the right people.

I love the way that they explained that... so down to the heart fo the matter.


Paul St. John

I can only imagine the shit that you have seen.
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Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2003, 03:10:00 PM »
Oh yea I remember that well. I was there when the state came in did an interview too......... and was rewarded for my job well done
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Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2003, 12:10:00 AM »
Rewarded by the state or the program?

Paul
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Offline Anonymous

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Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2003, 01:35:00 AM »
::bangin::
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: Children Trained in General Dishonesty in Daytop
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2010, 10:56:23 PM »
:bump:
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