Keith C. Russell

[TheWho]

Peninsula doesn't have the certification and has no right to be stating they are JCAHO certified.

Its not JCAHO's fault, "Mikes abortion clinic" could say they are JCAHO certified, but if no one tells JCAHO they cant react.

[TheWho]

So, yeah, Sullie, I see how NATSAP is progressing like JCAHO.

This all I wanted to point out, good, bad or indifferent..... sorry it took a long about way.  But if you look back at JCAHO's path you will see that eventually NATSAP will gain more and more control and be able to make a big difference in the industry.  Right now they dont have a ton of pull, as JCAHO didnt in the beginning.

So give them time, let them grow and flurish, they will do some good.

[psy]

So, yeah, Sullie, I see how NATSAP is progressing like JCAHO.

This all I wanted to point out, good, bad or indifferent..... sorry it took a long about way.  But if you look back at JCAHO's path you will see that eventually NATSAP will gain more and more control and be able to make a big difference in the industry.  Right now they dont have a ton of pull, as JCAHO didnt in the beginning.

So give them time, let them grow and flurish, they will do some good.

Um.  I just kinda wanted to remind you guys that regardless of certification, accreditation, or license, abuse still takes place at NATSAP schools.  PV, HLA, and Benchmark are great examples of this.  Have you actually read what PV survivors have said, Who?

In any case Please cut the crap, Who. NATSAP is a trade organization, not any type of oversight, licensing, or accretidation (although with all those letters, it sure sounds to parents like it is).  It's "Principles of Good practice" are NOT enforced, by their own admission to me on the phone when I called to complain about Benchmark.  (don't believe me...  call them up as somebody else and try to complain about a school)  NATSAP does not investigate it's schools, their claims, or survivors claims of abuse.  About the only think they DO do is lobby against legislation and put out a lot of industry PR for member schools and organizations.

[Deborah]

Keith Russell is the father, and Catherine Freer is the mother of the bastard child known as NATSAP...

I like the play on words, but technically, the father of NATSAP is Len Buccellato of Hidden Lake Academy and the mother is John Redden.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=88171#88171
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=88171#88171

The original board
Michael Allgood, Cascade School, California, 3-year term
Tim Brace, Aspen Youth Services, California, 3-year term
Len Buccellato, Hidden Lake Academy, Georgia, 3-year term Bobbi Christensen, Crater Lake School, Oregon, 3-year term
Kimbal DeLaMare, Island View, Utah, 2-year term
Gary Emmons, Brush Ranch School, New Mexico, 2-year term
John Mercer, Mission Mountain School, 2-year term
Jan Moss, Spring Ridge Academy, Arizona, 3- year term
John Santa, Montana Academy, Montana, 3-year term
Rosemary Tippett, Three Springs, Alabama, 3-year term.

I'd consider Russell and CFW the parents of the more recent Wilderness 'Therapy' industry.

[psy]

Keith Russell is the father, and Catherine Freer is the mother of the bastard child known as NATSAP...

I like the play on words, but technically, the father of NATSAP is Len Buccellato of Hidden Lake Academy and the mother is John Redden.

 ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::

[psy]

Keith Russell is the father, and Catherine Freer is the mother of the bastard child known as NATSAP...

I like the play on words, but technically, the father of NATSAP is Len Buccellato of Hidden Lake Academy and the mother is John Redden.

::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::

So in other words, it was somehow crapped out?

[TheWho]

So, yeah, Sullie, I see how NATSAP is progressing like JCAHO.

This all I wanted to point out, good, bad or indifferent..... sorry it took a long about way.  But if you look back at JCAHO's path you will see that eventually NATSAP will gain more and more control and be able to make a big difference in the industry.  Right now they dont have a ton of pull, as JCAHO didnt in the beginning.

So give them time, let them grow and flurish, they will do some good.

Um.  I just kinda wanted to remind you guys that regardless of certification, accreditation, or license, abuse still takes place at NATSAP schools.  PV, HLA, and Benchmark are great examples of this.  Have you actually read what PV survivors have said, Who?

In any case Please cut the crap, Who. NATSAP is a trade organization, not any type of oversight, licensing, or accretidation (although with all those letters, it sure sounds to parents like it is).  It's "Principles of Good practice" are NOT enforced, by their own admission to me on the phone when I called to complain about Benchmark.  (don't believe me...  call them up as somebody else and try to complain about a school)  NATSAP does not investigate it's schools, their claims, or survivors claims of abuse.  About the only think they DO do is lobby against legislation and put out a lot of industry PR for member schools and organizations.

If you look at NATSAP’s web site you will see that their effort is to continue to improve the conditions of the schools, improve education, encourage clinical case studies, risk management, etc. They have set up a journal as a vehicle for members to share their accomplishments with other members and paths of progress.

They intend to eliminate “Boot-campsâ€

[psy]

They intend to eliminate “Boot-campsâ€

[Deborah]

Which 'therapeutic' venue does "accepting JC, understanding and accepting attonement" come from?
According to the founder of NATSAPs member program Heritage RTC, this is necessary for kids to 'improve'.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=287033#287033

[ZenAgent]

So, yeah, Sullie, I see how NATSAP is progressing like JCAHO.

This all I wanted to point out, good, bad or indifferent..... sorry it took a long about way.  But if you look back at JCAHO's path you will see that eventually NATSAP will gain more and more control and be able to make a big difference in the industry.  Right now they dont have a ton of pull, as JCAHO didnt in the beginning.

So give them time, let them grow and flurish, they will do some good.

Um.  I just kinda wanted to remind you guys that regardless of certification, accreditation, or license, abuse still takes place at NATSAP schools.  PV, HLA, and Benchmark are great examples of this.  Have you actually read what PV survivors have said, Who?

In any case Please cut the crap, Who. NATSAP is a trade organization, not any type of oversight, licensing, or accretidation (although with all those letters, it sure sounds to parents like it is).  It's "Principles of Good practice" are NOT enforced, by their own admission to me on the phone when I called to complain about Benchmark.  (don't believe me...  call them up as somebody else and try to complain about a school)  NATSAP does not investigate it's schools, their claims, or survivors claims of abuse.  About the only think they DO do is lobby against legislation and put out a lot of industry PR for member schools and organizations.

If you look at NATSAP’s web site you will see that their effort is to continue to improve the conditions of the schools, improve education, encourage clinical case studies, risk management, etc. They have set up a journal as a vehicle for members to share their accomplishments with other members and paths of progress.

They intend to eliminate “Boot-campsâ€

[TheWho]

They intend to eliminate “Boot-campsâ€

[Deborah]

Sorry to post this again.....

Nothing new, no new bar. They've always claimed to require proper licensing/accreditation - two very different things.

From 2005
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/nat ... iples.html
Highlight- 1.0 ADHERENCE TO STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS
The program/school shall adhere to all applicable state and federal laws in conducting the operation, including administration, hiring and employee practices, observance of safety regulations, and the care of program participants.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=88723#88723

This has never been true. And they turn a blind eye when programs are shut down by the state and open with a new classification (private boarding school) to avoid further regulation.

"The new standards require our therapeutic programs and schools to maintain state licensure http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252780#252780[/url]

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=214897#214897


State Licensure  OR  Accreditation.
Scroll down the list of programs. That's the way it's always been. Some are licensed and the therapeutic aspect of the program is monitored by the state, fwiw. The academic component of some programs is reviewed by an Accrediting agency. A few have JCAHO accreditation. Some have nothing.

[TheWho]

Zen wrote:

Yeah, but you post here freely and present an opposing view. There's no pro-industry forum that allows opposing views (right, ST?) Look over the board of directors of NATSAP again - not a very diverse group, absolutely no one to balance the opinions.. NATSAP has not progressed as a regulatory body, it only serves to represent the interests of the programs associated with it. It's become cliche, but NATSAP is "the fox guarding the hen house" and that's all. NATSAP's involvement in writing regulations is like asking the Mafia's suggestions on the Rico laws, or how to stop racketeering . NATSAP wants to maintain the status quo that's been in effect for over twenty years, they have no desire to make any costly "improvements" that would cut into the profits. Remember, this is an industry. Think of it as a mill and the kids going in are the grist.

How many moderators, here on fornits, are program supporters?  How about administrators?  If everyone voted today would you want my “opposing opinion?â€

[TheWho]

Sorry to post this again.....

Nothing new, no new bar. They've always claimed to require proper licensing/accreditation - two very different things.

From 2005
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/nat ... iples.html
Highlight- 1.0 ADHERENCE TO STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS
The program/school shall adhere to all applicable state and federal laws in conducting the operation, including administration, hiring and employee practices, observance of safety regulations, and the care of program participants.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=88723#88723

This has never been true. And they turn a blind eye when programs are shut down by the state and open with a new classification (private boarding school) to avoid further regulation.


"The new standards require our therapeutic programs and schools to maintain state licensure http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252780#252780[/url]

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=214897#214897


State Licensure  OR  Accreditation.
Scroll down the list of programs. That's the way it's always been. Some are licensed and the therapeutic aspect of the program is monitored by the state, fwiw. The academic component of some programs is reviewed by an Accrediting agency. A few have JCAHO accreditation. Some have nothing.

Yes, it has always been part of their makeup/structure but they have put it all together to make it clear to new schools that these are their requirements.  Those schools that are breaking the laws are probably being dealt with.  JCAHO doesn’t just drive over to the hospital the day after a patient dies of neglect and padlock the doors to the hospital.  They spend months/years (sometimes behind closed doors) trying to help them resolve the issues and get back on track.  Shutting stuff down doesn’t benefit anyone.



...

[ZenAgent]

Zen wrote:

Yeah, but you post here freely and present an opposing view. There's no pro-industry forum that allows opposing views (right, ST?) Look over the board of directors of NATSAP again - not a very diverse group, absolutely no one to balance the opinions.. NATSAP has not progressed as a regulatory body, it only serves to represent the interests of the programs associated with it. It's become cliche, but NATSAP is "the fox guarding the hen house" and that's all. NATSAP's involvement in writing regulations is like asking the Mafia's suggestions on the Rico laws, or how to stop racketeering . NATSAP wants to maintain the status quo that's been in effect for over twenty years, they have no desire to make any costly "improvements" that would cut into the profits. Remember, this is an industry. Think of it as a mill and the kids going in are the grist.

How many moderators, here on fornits, are program supporters?  How about administrators?  If everyone voted today would you want my “opposing opinion?â€