idea, inspired by over the gw. the grassroots effort thread.

[Anonymous]

There already exist martial arts that focus on escape. Maybe somebody familiar with martial arts could suggest a couple of the best disciplines and list that as some good advice.

There are no martial arts that protect against a group of men that are twice your size with pepper spray, a needle of thorazine or just their bare fists.

The only person who would make this statement is someone too ignorant to know what goes on in physically violent program situations, or somebody trying to get you hurt.

Martial arts are not required to run from a program, only your legs.

Fighting a restraint is the best way to get hurt even more, anyone who has been restrained knows this.

[Anonymous]

I suspect someone might be steering you in the wrong direction. Trying to get you to waste your time. Who might want to do that?

Paranoia will destroy ya. Are we sheep? Are we so easily led? Or do ya think maybe we can think for ourselves and direct our actions according to our own free will and good sense?

Kids are ignorant to what goes on in programs. If you feed them a bunch of tough-guy bullshit they are going to get hurt, plain and simple. If you are comfortable misleading kids into violent situations they are bound to lose, knock yourself out. I'd rather inform people based on reality than a macho fantasy.

[Che Gookin]

Rather than a whole discipline perhaps a few basic moves to survive restraints might be easier to learn.

[Anonymous]

Wandering Waygookin you know about restraints don't you? Tell us from your experience what happens to a kid when they fight back during a restraint? Does it usually help their situation in your experience? What if any moves could a 15 year old used on you to improve their situation?

[Che Gookin]

I would like to see survivors speaking at the schools - telling their stories - explaining the industry - educating the kids and teachers.
Not sure how to get the schools to go for it - but thats the kind of thing I'd like to see happening.

Take a lesson from Rich Bradbury and Psy; encourage public service and school projects themed on "Defense against the dark arts". (Damn you, TSW, for blowing out that parody before I had a chance to read it! Damn you to hell!)

I really ought to finish that project also.

[Che Gookin]

Wandering Waygookin you know about restraints don't you?

yes.. more than I care to know.. was trained in the TCI or the Cornell Theraputic Crisis Intervention, Par, Positive Action Response, and SAMA Satori Alternative to Managing Agression.

Tell us from your experience what happens to a kid when they fight back during a restraint?

The restraints that are resisted by the youth either have more staff piled onto the kid, or the single staff resorts to more force to complete the restraint.

Does it usually help their situation in your experience?

no. Only had one kid break out of a hold in 4 years. He got up ran off and had three other staff jump on him.

What if any moves could a 15 year old used on you to improve their situation?

Be like Gandhi and don't resist violently. Comply with all directions and hope to heck they wrap it up quickly.

Don't panic..

Don't scream...

Be calm and don't demand anything.. ie.. don't demand they get off you.. or demand the police.. will only piss them off more. I you want to make a complaint or file a grievance do so after the restraint.. not try to do one during..

However, do remember to breathe calmly and smoothly.. and if you are having trouble breathing calmly ask, in a very calm manner, for staff to ease up to aid you in your breathing.

[Oz girl]

Why not hand out to school kids credit card sized cards with important ph#s to call in the event of a program emergency? WWASP parents hand out fliers at juvennile courts to parents with kids who have legal issues. So i am thinking of the same sort of thing in reverse perhaps?

It is a shame that there is not some sort of professionally staffed 1/2 way house for kids who have run away from programs. This would give kids a chance to get on their feet and perhaps get some sort of access to medical/ counselling/ social services so that they are not just homeless etc. I always think of those girls who escaped from some sort of maternity program after an altercation with the staff and what became of their babies. How would someone go about getting funding for such a thing i wonder?

[Che Gookin]

During the Second World War the Red Cross sent relief packages to the prisoners of war held by the various nations. I suggest we pick a program to send each kid inside a package for x-mas. No contraband inside either, just some choco bars, socks, a book or two, paper, envelopes, and some stamps.


Mind you this of course should all be very carefully documented to gain media attention later..

[Oz girl]

This is fairly easy to do but would'nt most places be suspicious about parcels from total strangers?

[Anonymous]

One of my impractical ideas (seem to flow like water around here) was to fly over a program with leaflets saying fuck the program or something like that. I was thinking you could pay an ultralight pilot to do it or something since a lot of programs are in a rural area. I thought of this because while standing in a program one day a couple parachute airplane things flew over and it really got us all excited. Just seeing people having fun was fun.

[Che Gookin]

One of my impractical ideas (seem to flow like water around here) was to fly over a program with leaflets saying fuck the program or something like that. I was thinking you could pay an ultralight pilot to do it or something since a lot of programs are in a rural area. I thought of this because while standing in a program one day a couple parachute airplane things flew over and it really got us all excited. Just seeing people having fun was fun.

Why is this impractical?  I might not say "fuck the programs" but the idea is solid.

[Froderik]

I suspect someone might be steering you in the wrong direction. Trying to get you to waste your time. Who might want to do that?

Paranoia will destroy ya. Are we sheep? Are we so easily led? Or do ya think maybe we can think for ourselves and direct our actions according to our own free will and good sense?

Kids are ignorant to what goes on in programs. If you feed them a bunch of tough-guy bullshit they are going to get hurt, plain and simple. If you are comfortable misleading kids into violent situations they are bound to lose, knock yourself out. I'd rather inform people based on reality than a macho fantasy.

Flight before fight.

[Anonymous]

i think it's funny how people seem to think that resisting restraint will only get you more hurt. sure, when someone has a needle and some pepper spray you shouldnt resist, but then again very few programs still imploy thorazine and pepper spray, thats reserved for mental institutions and actual prisons. now getting away from a belt loop restraint is fairly easy, i did it when i was escorted. while they were escorting me down the stairs i threw both escorts down, jumped over the railing one flight and ran downstairs. the only thing is my mother warned them about this, and they had a big guy waiting for me downstairs who i thought twice about resisting against. bassicaly what i did was they belt looped me. i was a stair below them, so i hooked my right arm under the escorts left, and flipped it around so that my right arm was pushing into his shoulder, and my left hand was holding his hand in a contorted position. basic kinda arm lock. i could have broken his arm, but instead i kicked him down the stairs. all this took a fraction of a second. the second escort was on top of me instantly with a bear hug, all i had to do was give him a nice hammer in the balls and he was easily thrown down too.

yes, brazillian ju-jitsu is very excellent for this purpose. also look into Akido and Systema, which is what i study. stay away from any martial art that involves alot of forms (sets of moves), and relies on strikes e.g tai kwon do, kung fu, karate, boxing, all that bullshit. those only breed bad habbits which get people very hurt in real-life situations. akido and systema is good because it teaches instinctive reaction and reversal of energy, rather than just how to punch and kick, which they both have very little of.

oddly enough you would think that after that they would just handcuff me and treat me like shit till they dropped me off. but no, they were actually very respectfull after that. not neccesarily intimidated, but they knew that i was out of their control, and that the only way to make me obey was through positive reinforcement. it was pretty funny though...it was almost like they were sucking up to me.

[Anonymous]

You should have jumped down the stairs and landed on their heads. You could have brutally killed them both. You failed!

[Deborah]

i think it's funny how people seem to think that resisting restraint will only get you more hurt.

Well, because historically, resisting restraint has not only gotten kids more hurt, it has resulted in their death. It depends on the kid's age, size, and ability.

There are numerous cases in which the teen resisted which resulted in more staff involved in the restraint. They don't let you up until you've stopped resisting, and then may hold you beyond that point. One serious issue is that the kid may be writhing in pain or 'fighting' to breath and that is misconstrued by staff to mean the kid hasn't yet calmed down. Staff hold no responsibility because the kid 'caused' his/her own death by continuing to resist. They actually fabricated a term for this to use in their defense following the Chase Moody killing.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=5214#5214
It's called "Excited Delerium".
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=7950#7950

A YouTube video is not going to prepare a young teen for resisting arrest or restraint. Let's say they see the video, sign up for marshal arts class
(in the event their parent gets the bright idea to warehouse them), and learn a few moves. The escorts come for them and they actually manage to escape the goons. What then? Where do they go? How do they live? Obviously, the older they are, the better the chances, but a young kid would have no chance.
In fact, it could land them in some remote hell hole like TB, rather than an emotionally abusive program in the US, because they are considered dangerous.