Changes at Pathway?

[Anonymous]

Great :smile: now we have a meeting of the minds and discuss things like adults.
     I will never disagree with you that drug treatment is expensive in this country. I will point out that for more involved treatment, Pathway is not that bad in price. (As compared to other options) We really could discuss this for a long time and your feelings about the cost are valid, but I am going to give you some homework to do:
    You are the parent of a drug abusing child who has either already came close to dying of an overdose or has caused so much turmoil in the family setting that you do not have an option of allowing that child to live at home one more day or as an alternative to a long jail sentence. (These are the only type of admissions to the program I have seen) Your assignment is to find a program that can at least 1. give a safe environment for your child to dry out and 2.to begin to deal with things they have been running away from. Please remember your kid is going to be hostile because there is no desire for him to stop using, it may take a while for him to get in a frame of mind to look at himself and see past the anger. You are going to have to wait this out and time is money. So you assignment is to find me a drug rehab program that has 24 hour care, 8 hours a day of therapy (any type of therapy social worker,psychologist, peer staff, peer to peer) (I will accept any program within 1 state of Michigan) You must like the program enough to stay until it is clear all the help you can give your child has been attempted or completed. Please tell me what the program name is and a phone number that I can call and confirm your information or an internet site that I can review the information. Then lets compare the costs. Lets also compare that to 3 hots and a cot in a nursing home for unskilled care. A very basic home in Michigan will start around $5,000.00 a month... ($60K a year) and that does nothing more than house them. I will even accept an answer by you that does not offer therapy for the rest of the family as part of the overall cost.... Let's see what you come up with.

    So if Pathway is money hungry, this is your chance to proove this to me and the rest of the world. I for one, if I can find a less expensive equivalent therapy setting with equal results, I would consider it in a heartbeat. But I will tell you I considered many options when it became necessary to consider these things for my child. The most pressing concern I had was not the cost but what the finished product was of those who graduated the program. I did not ask Pathway about the program until I interviewed graduates from the program. I came to them looking for answers they did not seek me out (local quick-fix rehab programs had waiting lists that meant weeks before a spot became available and the cost quoted was $1,000.00 per day). I did not talk to "pulls" for answers to my questions, only to kids who were lucky enough to afford the therapy and had the courage to look real hard at themselves and didn't like what they saw and made changes in their life. So for me, this was an opportunity for my child to learn a method of remaining clean and to enjoy life. It was clearly stated that it was an opportunity to learn something new to help with problems. Use it, don't use it the choice is yours but I will not allow you back into my home under present conditions.

   So you are now the parent. Put my shoes on for a while. Let's see how you handle the responsibility of your child and the decisions you are faced with in life. Let me know what you come up with as solutions.  :smile:

[Anonymous]

Came to believe that they were powerless, no, no-one is powerless, and you can try to believe that a power greater than your self could make it better but there is no one greater than yourself to make things better for you. Turning your will over to something is like leaving it hanging somewhere. There is drug treatment that doesn't do this. Why do all these places have to do twelve step.  It makes me want to puke.

[Anonymous]

Whats wrong with taking time off your work and following the kid around for a while. Really getting involved in his life.  I mean he has to be getting drugs somewhere, if you're there he wouldn't get them.  Come on  there are many things that can be done!!!

[METALGOD8]

TO THE ANONYMOUS PROJECT MANAGER:

  Before I go researching affordable non-abusive, legal and otherwise credible drug treatment for the rest of the world and the 6 of my drug free children, you will have to answer the questions I have posted in this topic and the one called "Kathy Row". Also, please identify yourself. I prefer two way streets.


MG8 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

" So you assignment is to find me a drug rehab program that has 24 hour care, 8 hours a day of therapy (any type of therapy social worker,psychologist, peer staff, peer to peer) (I will accept any program within 1 state of Michigan) You must like the program enough to stay until it is clear all the help you can give your child has been attempted or completed."

LOL ~ ASSIGNMENT? Hell, I think someone should give YOU, the parent, the 'homework assignment', you sure paint the hell out of your kid as the one with all the 'problems' on that magical canvas of yours. I gather you must be some kind of family who for the most part both parents were working or at least too occupied to get involved with your own kid. ~ (remember that sucker phrase the "program" teaches you?, "take an open mind"...... I think it's a lot cheaper to really take an interest in your child in their earlier years and gain trust with them. Why are you in this mentality that when things don't go your way concerning your kid and his/her choices, that you just turn your back on him and 'drop' him off somewhere to be babysat? I only wish it were that easy, I wish I could say that all they were doing in there at PFC was guarding your kid. But while he is there, they are putting some horrific things in their minds that will be permanent life-long trauma. When you start telling a kid that that are worthless pieces of shit, telling them that everything is a 'privilege, not allow them Any God Damned privacy, NO private recreation time, NO unmonitored phone calls to parents, you are creating a whole new monster, who in the coming years will have a mountain of shit to pick up that YOU and PFC left behind for him. Maybe you should just surrender that kid of yours to someone more stable than yourself. You have certainly demonstrated your incompetence as a parent.

"Put my shoes on for a while. Let's see how you handle the responsibility of your child and the decisions you are faced with in life. Let me know what you come up with as solutions."

Your shoes? LOL, what a joke, you made your own Damned bed. If you had done the right things as a parent in the first place, you never would of allowed a cult to get a hold of your kid. All your money and all the kings men in the world are not going to be able to fix your little Johnny or Suzie. That has always begun with you and still you fail as a parent to set an example. You blame him for everything that ever went 'wrong' in your lives don't you? What do you do when he grows up and gets educated on brainwashing and how they applied it on him at Pathway??? And please don't lie to yourself and say that it won't happen, the internet is not going anywhere, he will someday read  these BB's.

[Carmel]

I have to agree on two points.

One being the fact that drugs are a symptom of a bigger problem.  Just because you remove the drugs, doesnt mean that your kid is not going to be completely fucked up still.

Two, The idea that the only children you ever saw admitted into Pathway were severe cases that needed intervention, otheriwse death or jail were the only options left.  You see, we were ALL those sorts of kids....even if we werent even close.  We were made to ADMIT we were that bad, the parents were manipulated to BELEIVE we were that bad...and in order to not be physically and mentally abused on a daily basis....we CREATED a persona that was that bad.  

85% of the people in my group were not addicts, were not in danger of death or jail.  Many of them had only ever smoked pot once, or gotten drunk a few times.  But I promise, by the time they were on 3-4th phase...they were messed up druggie losers who never would have had a chance without the program.  Forget sexual abuse, physical and mental abuse in the home...those werent at fault, it was the DRUGS.  That is very simply not true.

When I admitted to my mother that my father had sexually abused me, the only feedback I ever got was a confrontation by the group that in being "emotional" about my admitting to the issue, that I was attempting to manipulate my mother to pull me out of the program.  The fact was, when I got out of Straight, all the messed up crap at home that was responsible for my lashing out, was still right there waiting for me when I got back.

[Carmel]

Oh and one more thing....in Anon's post where he/she mentions "giving a safe place for your kid to dry out and start dealing with the things he/she is running away from".....what happens when what they are running from is you?  Are you willing to accept that? Accept that it may be your fault in some ways?  Many parents are not.

[Anonymous]

One topic at a time. I am answering questions you put to me not ones you put to Mrs Row. When we are done with this one, I'll go on to something else. Otherwise you are just telling me what you are saying is just foundless crap. I am trying to keep an open mind and I am willing to change my views if you can show me what you are saying has merit. Apparently it does not and this forum is just a way for people who are angry someone tried to help them. I am sorry for you but that is really a problem for you to work out. If you will answer my questions then I will discuss other ones that you pose. If I have a credible answer to the assignment I gave you then I will discuss other things. Otherwise we are done talking. (definition of insanity... doing the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome)

[Anonymous]

Yes Carmel, I came to that conclusion. I was not the main problem but my behavior was not beneficial to improving the behavior of my child. What I did about it was CHANGE what I did not like about myself by using the steps and getting out of my head and realisticly deal with the reasons. I did this for myself and guess what? Everyone else benefited from the changes. Now, the relationship with my child has never been better. This was not one-sided though. My child made the same commitment to significantly change things in the same manner.I am truely sorry that your parents did not do the same. That is why they call this a FAMILY disease and the whole family is involved in treatment even if they never had a problem with drugs or alcohol. Most parents are not much different than their kids and unwilling at first to see any role they play in the situation. By example and relating to others going thru similar struggles, they begin to see their own role in events. (that's if they have an open mind and hang around long enough to see into their own souls) But this is not exclusive to Pathway, this help is available also thru N.A. and A.A. and other forums it does not matter where they get it... they just have to be willing to look at themselves and just ask some simple questions. My way will work.... eventually.... but at what emotional cost to me? Can I reach the same end point or improve it by changing how I approach it? If I can't solve the problem on my own without resorting to anger and frustrastion then I ask someone else for help.(Asking anyone outside of myself for help is all that is meant by seeking a higher power...TWO HEADS ARE BETTER THAN ONE).That is what Pathway has taught me. Doesn't sound so much like mind control, but it works for me.
  Hugs and I wish you well in your struggles in life. :smile:

[METALGOD8]

"if yer not back by 10:00, I'll ground ya!"

 :smokin:

[Carmel]

Well, I respect your conviction.  Its good that you try to see the positives in what you are going through.  However, the fact does remain that how much of the abusive treatment, coupled with the effective treatment is really necessary?  

You see, everything you just explained to me I have heard a thousand times before.  The same words, the same phrases and their respective contexts.  NOTHING about what you just explained to me sounds foriegn or at all unlike what was taught in my program.  Therefore, it is difficult for me to believe that where the modaility exists, the abuse does not.

The fate of my program was left in the hands of a second phase oldcomer who wouldnt vote for me to move forward for months on end.  All because, in her infinite wisdom as a 15 year old troubled kid, felt that I was "arrogant".  I tried my very best to do what I was told and to be "honest" and I was repeatedly held back from any contact with my mother or family. Im sorry, but children in such dire circumstances as you have defined do not need to be "treated" by other messed up kids.  The very last thing I am going to do is spend 30,000 or 20,000 or even 10 bucks on treatment for my kid by an unqualified teenager.  The basis of the treatment that PFC and Straight are modeled after leaves a huge margin for personal judgement and interferance.  THAT is the part that the parents do not see, cannot see, and should be very very frightened of.  Being yelled at, called a loser, a liar, a worthless human being.....all from kids who dont even know how or what they are judging against other than the fact that if they dont, they will be put in the shoes of the one they are confronting.  Thats a HORRIBLE way to do any kind of recovery, I dont care how you look at it.  Treatment and recovery should not be the lesser of two evils.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-01 16:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Whats wrong with taking time off your work and following the kid around for a while. Really getting involved in his life.  I mean he has to be getting drugs somewhere, if you're there he wouldn't get them.  Come on  there are many things that can be done!!!"

One of my closest friends did exactly what you said... took a sabatical from his job and spent quality time with her. End result he thought the drug use cut way down..wrong... his daughter just switched to something he wasn't testing for. She was not allowed to go anywhere without direct parental supervision. Her druggie friends just left stashes of drugs outside her window. One of the reasons in Pathway the windows where the kids sleep are alarmed. My observation is that I can control the drug use somewhat but I cannot affect the reasons for its use and controlling someone's every move merely delays a problem ...it doesn't try to fix it. If your parents listen and participate in Pathway, they do become more involved with their child and in meaningful ways. Do all parents heed this...no... do all kids?? NO
   I am not saying that what you say is groundless. In fact has a lot of merrit to be more involved in your childs life. My wife was home with all our children while they were growing up and involved with each one. Your solution though does not apply to the kids I have seen needing the level of intervention Pathway provided. Believe me, I did not stand in line trying to figure out the most difficult inhumane way to solve a problem. I did look at what was needed to make more than a bandaid approach to make long term solutions.  :smile:  Hugs

[Anonymous]

It would have been a whole lot cheaper to have alarmed your house.  Your friend wasn't with his daughter at all times was he. That's what I meant, right there. Then take your child to a therapist every day.  A bitch but my God better than Pathway. Hard work being a parent. Also a trip to Pathway to see what happens might help too.

[Anonymous]

Is EVERYTHING  that Pathway does correct for all the kids who pass thru their doors? NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are there reasons for why certain things were done a certain way? YES Am I priveleged to know all the reasons? NO Does my common sense let me understand most of them? YES

First phasers  and ONLY first phasers use the bathroom with the door OPEN. This means it is not locked and in my home was never open more than about 4 inches from the closed position. It is not intended to humiliate the kids. Members of the opposite sex are not allowed in the area when it is being used for bathing or using the toilet or taking care of sanitary needs. This is significantly much less exposure kids had in gym class or swimming where communal showers are used. So why?? What possible reason is there for the door being open??? It is not to humiliate someone, it is intended to make sure they 1. do not injure themselves. Lift the toilet tank and drop the lid. Many sharp peices of porcelain can quickly be used to cut wrists. Or the mirror, a quick hit and it too can be used as a weapon or to cause injury to one's self or others while in a bad place mentally. 2. make sure drugs are not secretly being used. Are all first phasers a candiate for  this concern? NO It was however treating people EQUALLY and so to single out specific individuals for security concerns, in my view, makes that individual feel more isolated and different from others. Could this policy change? Yes/no.... I do not know. I would be willing to look at it...possibly remove that situation once the child is on T & R talk and responsibility level of the first phase. I know as a parent with guests in my home, I will not be sued for someone having feelings of humiliation. I could be succesfully sued for not safeguarding against reasonably assumed risks so I can live with the first phasers "earning" the right to have that priveledge.... or shall I say giving me a reasonable assurance they are not at undue risk in my home.

 I am sure others will find fault with this. That is their privelege. I offer it as my feelings as to why I personally do not have a problem with it. This is to ease concern of the parents NOT Pathway!!! Pathway, up to this point has agreed with host home committee that it is a reasonable approach.

Hugs  :smile:

[Anonymous]

What is this pathway shit about getting out of your head?  What's wrong with being in your head , you want someone else to be??  Another stupid word is co-dependency.  Just another name for neurotic behavior which can only be helped with psychotherapy!! How can you admit you are powerless and change?? You just repress the problem AGAIN and leave it hanging out there!! I'll bet your child is still in Pathway which of course, he will not be the way he is when he gets out.
This moral inventory crap.  What about the REASONS for doing wrong and instead of beating yourself up, understand why you are the way you are.  Defects of character, and (anger is one of them according to Pathway), well where does that anger go if you don't recognize and feel and talk about where it came from, which IS from your childhood. It's OK to be angry, raging but to not turn it on someone or yourself.  It's an emotion which your body has to release.Geez this 12 step crap has got to stop.  It's making everyone think they can't help themselves!!  You become addicted to the program!
There IS NO GENE for drug (and alcohol is a drug)addiction.  And it is not a disease, other than the disease process of what it does to the body longterm.  Anyone read Peter Breggin? He talks about how we drug our kids with any mind altering drug like antidepressants and stimulants.  They do not feel emotions they need to and talk about them, to have some control over them. So Pathway does this after the kid starts to feel and becomes emotional.  Is this stupid or what?