Fund my road trip! (fuck up programs)

[Anonymous]

All the who does is cause infighting and division. Letting him back on was a bad idea. Several posters with useful information have already decided to leave because of his constant program marketing. People don't ignore him they let him derail every fucking thread. I understand the need to preserve somebodies right to speak but when they silence everyone else with their constant bullshit, it defeats the whole purpose.

Now 2 more people are at each others throats. This fucker is making the board unreadable and pointless. What is the point of a right to speak if it fucks up a board entirely? Just face facts, when he posts a thread becomes a fucking waste of time. it seems nobody ignores him. He does flood the board and with program advertising. if the board of administrators feel so strongly about free speech then take some kind of vote or poll. At the very least stop bantering with this fuck with "hilarious" offers of tshirts and other fucking crap that makes him feel witty and important. i am so sick of what that fucker is doing to the board as a whole!

[Che Gookin]

All the who does is cause infighting and division. Letting him back on was a bad idea. Several posters with useful information have already decided to leave because of his constant program marketing. People don't ignore him they let him derail every fucking thread. I understand the need to preserve somebodies right to speak but when they silence everyone else with their constant bullshit, it defeats the whole purpose.

Now 2 more people are at each others throats. This fucker is making the board unreadable and pointless. What is the point of a right to speak if it fucks up a board entirely? Just face facts, when he posts a thread becomes a fucking waste of time. it seems nobody ignores him. He does flood the board and with program advertising. if the board of administrators feel so strongly about free speech then take some kind of vote or poll. At the very least stop bantering with this fuck with "hilarious" offers of tshirts and other fucking crap that makes him feel witty and important. i am so sick of what that fucker is doing to the board as a whole!

I agree, for the most part, with this post. However, I differ on the idea that the Who is being disruptive. I believe some people are making him a disruptive force by paying far to much attention to him.

[Anonymous]

If exceptions can be made for other things why not to ban the who. Afterall you got given the right to censor when Ginger gave you your own forum gookie. obviously Psy got given rights that other posters have. i am not making a judgment call either way on these things but exceptions to ideology are made with regard to this board so why is banning the who because the benefits outweigh the costs any different?

[Che Gookin]

If exceptions can be made for other things why not to ban the who. Afterall you got given the right to censor when Ginger gave you your own forum gookie. obviously Psy got given rights that other posters have. i am not making a judgment call either way on these things but exceptions to ideology are made with regard to this board so why is banning the who because the benefits outweigh the costs any different?

What exactly are the benifits and what exactly are the costs?

[Anonymous]

The schism is between those who hold free speech to be the highest ideal of this forum, and those who hold anti-program views as the highest ideal.

[Anonymous]

If exceptions can be made for other things why not to ban the who. Afterall you got given the right to censor when Ginger gave you your own forum gookie. obviously Psy got given rights that other posters have. i am not making a judgment call either way on these things but exceptions to ideology are made with regard to this board so why is banning the who because the benefits outweigh the costs any different?

What exactly are the benifits and what exactly are the costs?

costs
The fact that nobody ignores the who not matter what
the fact that he derails almost every thread sometimes for pages and pages so that relevant info is difficult to find
The fact that unlike other program parents who appear to be genuinely giving their perspective (even if it is crazy) he is just an advertisement for Aspen. Let the fucking pay for their ads goddammit
The fact that he frequently dismisses program survivors as histrionic or liars
The fact that many useful sources of information do not post anymore thanks in large part to this man
The fact that 2 prolific and helpful posters are at each other's throats and this sort of division is jst what some fuckwit program owners want.
His whole million page thread of made up statistics.

pros
free speech is like a really important ideological principal

[TheWho]

If exceptions can be made for other things why not to ban the who. Afterall you got given the right to censor when Ginger gave you your own forum gookie. obviously Psy got given rights that other posters have. i am not making a judgment call either way on these things but exceptions to ideology are made with regard to this board so why is banning the who because the benefits outweigh the costs any different?

What exactly are the benifits and what exactly are the costs?

costs
The fact that nobody ignores the who not matter what
the fact that he derails almost every thread sometimes for pages and pages so that relevant info is difficult to find
The fact that unlike other program parents who appear to be genuinely giving their perspective (even if it is crazy) he is just an advertisement for Aspen. Let the fucking pay for their ads goddammit
The fact that he frequently dismisses program survivors as histrionic or liars
The fact that many useful sources of information do not post anymore thanks in large part to this man
The fact that 2 prolific and helpful posters are at each other's throats and this sort of division is jst what some fuckwit program owners want.
His whole million page thread of made up statistics.

pros
free speech is like a really important ideological principal

Good point, nothing out weighs our individual right to free speech.

[Anonymous]

Tell that to the kids killed in programs... oh wait.. you can't.. they're worm food now.. idealism is stupid.

[Anne Bonney]

You keep giving him the attention he craves by complaining about him.  He really is pretty much irrelevant.  Anyone who's spent any amount of time here knows he's just a shill for Aspen.  Those that are new only have to read a couple of threads to figure out what his agenda is.

[TheWho]

First, there are many subtle differences between bribe, gift and wager.  The first time I traveled to Russia I was held hostage in a very small detention room with no air and it smelled of fish and cognac/vadka.  I was told I did not have the proper stamp on my passport to enter the country and my bags were placed back on the plane.  The only way to resolve this was to contact the US Embassy, which of course wasn’t open at 1:00 a.m., so I spent the night in that room while my bags went to Moldova.  It turned out there was no problem with my passport.  Later in my trip I arrived in Kazakhstan I was told we needed to leave our carry-on luggage on the plane and they would transport it to us at the gate (which is about 100 yards away, outside in the rain)  My bag, with papers for the embassy, laptop, tenge etc. never showed.  A stewardess, who spoke little English told me they couldn’t find it and I was welcome to search the plane.  So I looked around and it wasn’t there and went on to indicate that she would contact the authorities.  So we all stood in the rain, they all thought this was fun because they appeared to be telling jokes.  (I felt like I was in Casablanca standing on the tarmac with planes with wooden seats in them). When the police arrived he spoke to the captain and then an argument broke out and policeman took the hat off the captain and threw it on the ground, entered the plane and came out with my case and asked me to inspect the contents and all was there.   I met a person, in Moldova, who ended up being a very good friend in life who informed me that my problems would have been solved if I had just placed $50 in my passport in the first instance and handed it back asking if maybe he overlooked the stamp  and had I told the captain that I had a gift in my bag for him if he could please retrieve it for me from the plane these “gestures of good willâ€

[Anonymous]

I wonder if theWho is going to trust his daughter to pick his nursing home? He will probably take care of the arrangements himself.

[Deborah]

I believe the 'b' word would be appropriate somewhere around here...

Just to clarify, did you just call me a bitch?

So you really want to take the gloves off, huh?  Okay!  How about these little inconvenient facts:

* The original decision to ban TheWho was made almost entirely under your advisement.  Ginger made the decision based on a good faith analysis of your recommendation, based on her definition of the word "flooding" as well as the commonly established technical term.

"Inconvenient Facts"?  :rofl:
I'm not taking the fall on this. I had very little to do with Who being banned and won't be your scapegoat.
Read the email from Ginger dated 24 Aug, 2:48.
Then go read my PMs for 1 June, sent and received.

And these threads which I didn't participate in:
Ginger banned Who 1 June
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 957#263957
Poll and Comments about Who’s banning, in which you agreed he was flooding, among other things.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 972#263972

* I was asked to look into the matter, and the promise of a t-shirt sounded humorous.

And what did you look into? The number of anon posts Who had made. I'd really appreciate an answer to the question I've asked numerous times. Since when does one look at anon posts to determine if someone is/was flooding? Is that the offical definition? Excessive anon posts = flooding? You were here when it went down and agreed. Why the change of opinion?

Furthermore, I don't like to take away anybody's right to free speech unless he is interfering with the ability of others to speak, which he was not doing (flooding).  

So that's your definition of flooding? Has anyone ever interfered with another's ability to speak here? Not to my knowledge, as it's not possible.

That being said, Ginger specifically stated (several times) that industry members(child abusers), trolls, everybody is welcome here.  If you can't stand the heat...

Was that directed at me? An invitation to leave?

* In an enraged email later on, you, in no uncertain terms made it clear that you really didn't care why the who was banned, stating ... ... Ya know what... I'm not going to stoop that now... unless you agree to publicize that whole debacle (which nobody really wants), in which case, sure thing...

You have my permission to quote that.
How do you know nobody really wants it? Shall we start at the beginning with the email from Who to You?

My suggestion is to just drop it.

Fuck you psy and your suggestion. You'd like that wouldn't you? I get scapegoated for Who's banning. You let Who loose on the forum again to make claims that I deleted/altered his posts. You vindicate him, but put my integrity in question by refusing to refute what Who was saying- you couldn't be bothered, irrelevant.
No. This is going to get aired and cleared up. And the sooner you apologize for sticking your nose in my business and acting as the authority and making statements you knew nothing about....
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 799#277799

Then I'll consider dropping my grudge. What... Who is deserving of a public apology for being "wrongly" banned, a decision you agreed with initially, but I'm just supposed to "drop it"?

[Anne Bonney]

All the who does is cause infighting and division. Letting him back on was a bad idea. Several posters with useful information have already decided to leave because of his constant program marketing. People don't ignore him they let him derail every fucking thread. I understand the need to preserve somebodies right to speak but when they silence everyone else with their constant bullshit, it defeats the whole purpose.

Now 2 more people are at each others throats. This fucker is making the board unreadable and pointless. What is the point of a right to speak if it fucks up a board entirely? Just face facts, when he posts a thread becomes a fucking waste of time. it seems nobody ignores him. He does flood the board and with program advertising. if the board of administrators feel so strongly about free speech then take some kind of vote or poll. At the very least stop bantering with this fuck with "hilarious" offers of tshirts and other fucking crap that makes him feel witty and important. i am so sick of what that fucker is doing to the board as a whole!

So stop fucking talking to and about him.

[Anonymous]

but nobody does ignore him!  You don't, psy doesn't, survivors dont. Psy should have left it alone. So this is a relevant discussion on 1 thread. The who is on every thread. I don't think that the decision should have been up to psy. Psy's comments also do make him look sympathetic to the who. i dont think there was a dleiberate attempt to piss people off on psy's part but he made an error in lobbying for the who to be reinstated and it was a bad decision based more on ideology than common sense.

[TheWho]

but nobody does ignore him!  You don't, psy doesn't, survivors dont. Psy should have left it alone. So this is a relevant discussion on 1 thread. The who is on every thread. I don't think that the decision should have been up to psy. Psy's comments also do make him look sympathetic to the who. i dont think there was a dleiberate attempt to piss people off on psy's part but he made an error in lobbying for the who to be reinstated and it was a bad decision based more on ideology than common sense.

It shows character to stand up for what is right or what you believe in even though it is unpopular and you know people will ridicule you for it or disapprove.