Fund my road trip! (fuck up programs)

[psy]

[/b]

but nobody does ignore him!  You don't, psy doesn't, survivors dont. Psy should have left it alone. So this is a relevant discussion on 1 thread. The who is on every thread. I don't think that the decision should have been up to psy. Psy's comments also do make him look sympathetic to the who. i dont think there was a dleiberate attempt to piss people off on psy's part but he made an error in lobbying for the who to be reinstated and it was a bad decision based more on ideology than common sense.

It shows character to stand up for what is right or what you believe in even though it is unpopular and you know people will ridicule you for it or disapprove.

Thank you.

Yeh, those "value added" kudos from Who make one feel all warm and fuzzy.

You are not allowed to do that...  have you gone completely fucking rogue. Remember what I said about control over communication.  You may not recognize the pattern... You were never there.

It shows jackass stubborness when someone holds their ground to save face and won't access the facts that are available to them.

Like I said, running errands over who said what to whom is not part of my job description.  If you have evidence, produce it, but stop using superpowers.

The 'facts' of how Who came to be banned are in mine and Ginger's PMs beginning 1 June.

Great.  Should we turn this into an online court case.. Who cares.. it's over.  The who wants to leave it, everything is sorted out, I think you two just need to avoid each other or take it to free-for-all, the online version of a rap (to an extent) and go for the neck.

I've posted several questions in this thread I would like to have answers to. If your intention is to ignore me psy, have the balls to come out and say it.

*yawn*  Attempt at provocation result: fail

[Che Gookin]

to many 2 inch rule violations for me to want to read any of this...

Let us all try to square off against each other in the following format:

Deb to Psy:

Eat goat cheese and die.


Psy to Deborah:

NO U!


In short maybe this convo is better taken to private message after some tempers cool a bit?

[Anonymous]

Has ANYONE ever been banned from fornits before?

If so for what reason?

[Che Gookin]

Until the who was banned no one. He has since been unbanned so it is safe to say that no one has ever been permanently banned from fornits. Though there is one person that claims I banned him when I was an admin. Interesting claim as I don't believe I was an admin at the time.

[Antigen]

So are the other two "tyrants of majority" in agreement with you scapegoating me for Who's banning?

Ok, first and foremost, with the exception of a really messed up transition back in around December of last year, no one has done any banning or editing that I know of without my final approval. If anybody's still angry about the banning or unbanning, throw your rotten tomatoes my way, it's all on me.

You just outed a guest poster who you didn't like because he pissed you off, ... Yes. There is a 99.9% probability that The Who is industry, but on this site, as I understand Ginger's "rules" around here, that entitles them to the same posting rights.

I have to agree, that was out of line. And that is the very reason for it. We would not have a robust, meaningful dialogue without the pro program side represented. It would be like playing with dead puppies. But...

You should, thereby know that I find it very difficult to trust most people, especially program parents in general. Also consider i've been fucked with by all kinds of people, from my parents, to benchmark, to a vicious ex girlfriend, to another vicious cruel ex girlfriend (bad luck... don't ask) It's just a natural thing i'll have to overcome in time. Don't take it personally that I don't trust every single word you say, or anybody for that matter.

Deb is not and never was a program parent! Her situation is a lot like Zen Agent's. Her ex sent her boys off to programs without her knowledge or consent. As you note, program people don't have a corner on the psycho market. Deb has been working hard for years at exposing HLA and the entire industry.

Deb, you are about the most level headed, persistent, consistent unreasonable woman I know and a very good friend. But I really do think you've let this one get under your skin too much. He can't really hurt us in the long run. Don't worry.

[Antigen]

Until the who was banned no one. He has since been unbanned so it is safe to say that no one has ever been permanently banned from fornits. Though there is one person that claims I banned him when I was an admin. Interesting claim as I don't believe I was an admin at the time.

No, there was one other that I can think of. I tried to ban Nazi/88/SS shit talker. He proxied up and stepped up the assault. And I have occasionally banned spammer IP addresses and ranges. But those were temporary. There are far better ways to block spam than that. I don't think banning will ever be a very good option. I think we'll continue to find better ways.

[Deborah]

Not unexpected, actually, for you to say that.  The difference here, and problem with your logic, is that you are trying to deny another person their rights.  You do not have a right to do that.  Have you ever actually watched that "philosophy of liberty" ginger used to have in their sig (google it).  Look.  This is her site, I obey my rules, and her personal, political beliefs happen to pretty much be fairly close together.  We've talked a lot about political shit, and also about forum policy (which is very much in line).  She has a running theory that makes a lot of sense: if you deny industry members their precious control over communication you attack the cult in a very direct manner...  people snap out.. etc.

I am not trying to "deny another person their rights". That's what you hear, because that what you want to hear, and apparently can't comprehend what I'm actually saying. I haven't once asked you or anyone else to re-ban him.
This is not about you unbanning Who, it's how you went about it. And more specifically, scapegoating me for his "wrongful banning".
Stop patronizing me. I know Ginger's policies and political views. I was here long before you arrived. What does any of that have to do with the questions I asked?

I had several reasons for not doing that.  First off, I didn't, and still don't consider it an issue.  I was investigating a forum ban, and as far as i'm concerned, I don't want to get involved in some personal dispute between you and TheWho.

This isn't a personal dispute between me and Who. It's between me and YOU. I guess you don't consider it an issue. You're not the one being scapegoated for Who being wrongfully banned for flooding- actually the term Ginger used was "spamming", although you accused him of flooding at the time, and apparently supported the decision. I didn't then, and still don't know the forum's defintions of spamming and flooding. Do you? And ultimately, can a person technically be banned? Or is that information not forthcoming because it is reserved for the "tyranny of majority" to use at their discrection?

I don't particularly like the guy, considering he's an industry member, but up to this point have been able to control myself.  You, on the other hand, were calling him a terrorist (don't make me pull out that email ! ).

What's up with the threats to post my private communications? I venture to guess that most feel the same way. Certainly anyone who's been stalked by him. Is your posting my opinion that he's a forum terrorist supposed to imply something? Careful how high you put yourself on the pedestal.

You know i've been in program.  You should, thereby know that I find it very difficult to trust most people, especially program parents in general.  Also consider i've been fucked with by all kinds of people, from my parents, to benchmark, to a vicious ex girlfriend, to another vicious cruel ex girlfriend (bad luck... don't ask)   It's just a natural thing i'll have to overcome in time.  Don't take it personally that I don't trust every single word you say, or anybody for that matter.

I don't take it personally. What I take personally is you vindicating Who and refusing to look at the information I've given you or told you how to find. Sorry you were fucked by the industry. We all were. That's why we're here. What's your 'lack of trust' got to do with your refusal to look at information available to you?

I know that everybody lies sometimes, especially those who claim they don't.  I know by experience.  Most people do it for good reasons, some for bad, but I know your heart was good and perhaps you did add a bunny hat or whatever he accused you of.  I've never really looked into it, and frankly, I didn't want to.  I was also busy with Fornits admin stuff and dodging SS at the time...

Don't give me that bullshit, too busy. You'll find in my PMs a message to Who warning him that his anon posts would be tagged in the HLA forum before he was banned. No surprises, nothing underhanded. You could confirm that for yourself in less time than it took you to look up Who's anon posts.... but "you don't want to". THAT's what this is about. You listen to Who's manipulating, ego stroking, sob story; unban him, scapegoat me, and refuse to look at the facts. There was no "investigation". You looked at the number of anon posts he'd made and declared he wasn't flooding. Why bother with constructing that lame explanation at all? Just unban him and be done with it.  

Look at yourself... You just outed a guest poster who you didn't like becuase he pissed you off, and because you're pissed off at me for calming the situation down to the point where TheWho was not going to persue the matter, furthermore, he did say he would avoid you for a while, at least.

What exactly does that mean? So, we're to have double standards psy? You can out him, but I can't?  "Your rules" are becoming clearer.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 445#278445
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 455#278455

Yes.  There is a 99.9% probability that The Who is industry, but on this site, as I understand Ginger's "rules" around here, that entitles them to the same posting rights.

Why can't you get off defending Who's right to post? That's not what's at issue here. I want you to stop scapegoating me for Who's "wrongful banning". He apparently did violate Ginger's spamming policy at the time or she wouldn't have banned him. I didn't ban him or lead any organized effort to have him banned. You agreed with his banning at the time. Based on what? When did you change your mind?

[Deborah]

You are not allowed to do that...  have you gone completely fucking rogue. Remember what I said about control over communication.  You may not recognize the pattern... You were never there.

It got it psy. But, actually, that was bait. You confirmed it was Who with your comment. The same thing that goes on on this forum everyday. Just like you telling Who that HLA staff were outted on the HLA forum for a reason.
Where do you get off on making comments like that? Where do you get off speaking or apologizing for me? Post one damn time an HLA staff was outted. People can guess, they can bait, they can outright claim they know who the poster is. All bait. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Like I said, running errands over who said what to whom is not part of my job description.  If you have evidence, produce it, but stop using superpowers.

No the people who have superpowers here are those who possess the tech skills necessary to keep the forum running. They're invaluable, and apparently infallible.

Great.  Should we turn this into an online court case.. Who cares.. it's over.  The who wants to leave it, everything is sorted out, I think you two just need to avoid each other or take it to free-for-all, the online version of a rap (to an extent) and go for the neck.

I don't give a shit what Who wants. Matter of fact, I'm sick of hearing what Who wants.

Actually, it didn't fail. I read you loud and clear.

[Deborah]

Deb, you are about the most level headed, persistent, consistent unreasonable woman I know and a very good friend. But I really do think you've let this one get under your skin too much. He can't really hurt us in the long run. Don't worry.

I appreciate that, and my concern is not that Who will "hurt us" in the long run. That is the least of my "worries".

[Deborah]

to many 2 inch rule violations for me to want to read any of this...

Let us all try to square off against each other in the following format:

Deb to Psy:

Eat goat cheese and die.


Psy to Deborah:

NO U!


In short maybe this convo is better taken to private message after some tempers cool a bit?

If conflict is difficult for you, why don't you stop reading this thread. I tried resolving this with psy privately. He can't be bothered.

[Deborah]

You are not allowed to do that...  have you gone completely fucking rogue. Remember what I said about control over communication.  You may not recognize the pattern... You were never there.

So, in addition to being a bitch, I'm now worthless and dishonest. I appreciate you coming clean with your true feelings about me. It helps put things in perspective.

Like I said, running errands over who said what to whom is not part of my job description.  If you have evidence, produce it, but stop using superpowers.

What exactly is your job description, for the record? You don't want to confirm, then stop making your assumptions public.

[Froderik]

If you ban somebody for flooding the forums, then ban me.  I don't care what the intent of setting up the forums was, I use it, along with a handful of others in our little forum, as the only avenue we have open to dissiminate information and to counter program info.  Let the fuckers say what they want, and if nobody has the will to repudiate it or the dignity to ignore it, then why not shut the whole fucking thing down?  Free speech is no longer a right in Western Civilization, it's a prize that every ape who posts here is lucky to have a sniff at.

:tup:

[Froderik]

Yeh, those "value added" kudos from Who make one feel all warm and fuzzy.

You are not allowed to do that...  have you gone completely fucking rogue.

Just some clarification- I'm not sure what you were saying there, psy...
I guess you were saying that Deb effectively outed TheWho by making that "warm and fuzzy" remark?

[3xsaSeedling]

If you ban somebody for flooding the forums, then ban me.  I don't care what the intent of setting up the forums was, I use it, along with a handful of others in our little forum, as the only avenue we have open to dissiminate information and to counter program info.  Let the fuckers say what they want, and if nobody has the will to repudiate it or the dignity to ignore it, then why not shut the whole fucking thing down?  Free speech is no longer a right in Western Civilization, it's a prize that every ape who posts here is lucky to have a sniff at.

:tup:

:tup:  :tup:  :tup:

[try another castle]

why don't you stop reading this thread.

Good idea.

**castle unsubscribes to thread**  :roll: