Education about forced therapy

[Awake]

(did something abusive happen here? why is whooter avoiding this thread?)

[Anne Bonney]

One of the misconceptions is that since many of the kids going to these programs are not thrilled about it, not bought into it or didn’t want to go at all then that means that the therapy they receive during their stay there is considered "forced".

No, most of the kids that are forced into this "therapy" don't need it.  They're, for the most part, normal teens going thru the cutting the apron strings and finding themselves.  Many of the parents can't accept that their child isn't a carbon copy of themselves or aren't growing into what the parents want them to.  I've said before that our job is not to turn our kids into what WE want them to be.....it's our job to help them develop into what THEY want to be.

This isn’t the case.  In almost all circumstances the child ends up embracing the therapeutic process within a very short time.

Because they find out very quickly that if they don't, there are serious punishments dealt to them.

I think we would be hard pressed to find many teenagers who approach their parents and ask to see a therapist.  If this is true than any teenager who is in therapy is being forced into it and thereby being abused by therapists around the world.  Should therapy be withheld until the child becomes an adult and can clearly think for themselves?  What about the kids that take their own life?  Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?

There is a BIG difference between a suicidal child and a normal, rebellious teen.  A suicidal child needs true help, not the 'break them down, build them up' crap that programs push.

Have you ever attended an initial swim lesson for young children and then revisted a month later?  These kids were not abused because they didnt want to get wet initially.  They are happy and enjoying themselves even though a month earlier they were resistant.  The word "abuse" is Way overused here on this forum and in 90% of the cases the word "uncomfortable" could be used in its place.

There you go with your insipid analogies again. Apples to oranges.  Swimming lessons don't delve into the psyche of the child.  Swimming lessons don't teach the child that they're 'bad' and that their "problem" is either drugs or themselves.

[Whooter]

No, most of the kids that are forced into this "therapy" don't need it.  They're, for the most part, normal teens going thru the cutting the apron strings and finding themselves.  Many of the parents can't accept that their child isn't a carbon copy of themselves or aren't growing into what the parents want them to.  I've said before that our job is not to turn our kids into what WE want them to be.....it's our job to help them develop into what THEY want to be.

If it were just normal teenage stuff then the whole country would be going to programs (we all know this not to be the case).  There are very few kids who do not respond well to local services and therefore require the need for a program.

Because they find out very quickly that if they don't, there are serious punishments dealt to them.

There are no serious punishments for not attending therapy.  This is typically optional and is discussed prior to the child entering.

There is a BIG difference between a suicidal child and a normal, rebellious teen.  A suicidal child needs true help, not the 'break them down, build them up' crap that programs push.

Exactly, I think we can agree here.  Parents need to find the right program for their child.

There you go with your insipid analogies again. Apples to oranges.  Swimming lessons don't delve into the psyche of the child.  Swimming lessons don't teach the child that they're 'bad' and that their "problem" is either drugs or themselves.

Neither do programs so they analogy does work well.  Programs work to build self esteem and rebuild family relations.  I have seen this first hand, I am sorry that this did not work out that way for you, Anne.



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[Awake]

from  viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31769&start=180

Whooter, I have seen you making insinuations about others that they are narrow minded. And you’d be right in thinking that it’s not quite the case when you’re willing put yourself in the shoes of a troubled teen.  Do you think you yourself could open up a bit more to that? I had been asking you a question awhile ago,  maybe you are willing to answer it now.

I was wondering, why did you need to run from your therapy and not decide to stick with your program? Couldn’t opening up to it have helped you attain a bit of perspective?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&hilit=education+about+forced+therapy

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Granted, Initially the kids are forced into the therapeutic process but most of them eventually embrace it if they connect and get along with their therapist.  So it is consensual and the child benefits from it the same way an adult would.  The only difference is that the child doesn't consent at the onset.
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It sounds like you are saying you didn't open up enough to give this a chance. Do you think it's possible that some of the negative sentiment to you on this board has something to do with you being closed off to their experience? I hear your sentiment there, and see it as better for your awareness for you not to avoid it. Down deep I think you feel this experience would have been good for you if you were willing to open up a bit.



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[Anne Bonney]

If it were just normal teenage stuff then the whole country would be going to programs (we all know this not to be the case).  There are very few kids who do not respond well to local services and therefore require the need for a program.

There's enough that the TTI has grown over the years.

There are no serious punishments for not attending therapy.  This is typically optional and is discussed prior to the child entering.

Bullshit!  Programs tell the parents that if they don't enroll their kids they'll DIE!  Then when the kid does get inside, he learns very quickly to conform because he sees what happens to those who don't.

Exactly, I think we can agree here.  Parents need to find the right program for their child.

Why is your answer always a program?  How 'bout parents just doing their damn job in the first place?

There you go with your insipid analogies again. Apples to oranges.  Swimming lessons don't delve into the psyche of the child.  Swimming lessons don't teach the child that they're 'bad' and that their "problem" is either drugs or themselves.

Neither do programs so they analogy does work well.  Programs work to build self esteem and rebuild family relations.

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:   Yeah, as long as the kid is doing exactly as told.  If they stray from program thinking, they're basically shunned from the family.  You should be familiar with it.  It's called an "Exit Plan".  If the kid does something the parents don't like, they're out on the street.

 I have seen this first hand,

No you haven't.  You've seen the conformists that come out of programs.  You've never been on the inside and have no idea how they "accomplish" what they do.

I am sorry that this did not work out that way for you, Anne.

Yeah, right.  

[Whooter]

Bullshit!  Programs tell the parents that if they don't enroll their kids they'll DIE!  Then when the kid does get inside, he learns very quickly to conform because he sees what happens to those who don't.

No, actually the programs are very realistic with the parents and let them know what to expect.  If the therapy isnt working then the childs therapist communicates this to the childs therapist at home.  They review the progress and decide how to proceed.  There are punishments for many things but not for therapy.

Why is your answer always a program?  How 'bout parents just doing their damn job in the first place?

My answer isnt always programs.  You know as well as everyone that I support local services first.  If local services fail then the family has to look elsewhere.  Saying parents would have done a better job is hindsight, it isnt going to help the child today.

:roflmao:  :roflmao:   Yeah, as long as the kid is doing exactly as told.  If they stray from program thinking, they're basically shunned from the family.  You should be familiar with it.  It's called an "Exit Plan".  If the kid does something the parents don't like, they're out on the street.

The only place I have heard "Exit Plan" is here on fornits.  No one is going to shun a child because of their decisions.  If parents were going to shun them then why didnt they do it in the first place and save all that money? lol  Parents who put in the effort like program parents do will continue to be committed to their family.

No you haven't.  You've seen the conformists that come out of programs.  You've never been on the inside and have no idea how they "accomplish" what they do.

Neither have you, Anne.  Your only experience is 30 or more years ago in a program that is closed down.  I have see the results of todays programs first hand.



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[Anne Bonney]

No, actually the programs are very realistic with the parents and let them know what to expect.  If the therapy isnt working then the childs therapist communicates this to the childs therapist at home.

And put the entire blame on the kids, not in any way the program itself.

They review the progress and decide how to proceed.  There are punishments for many things but not for therapy.

There are definitely punishments for not following programs versions of therapy.

My answer isnt always programs.  You know as well as everyone that I support local services first.  If local services fail then the family has to look elsewhere.  Saying parents would have done a better job is hindsight, it isnt going to help the child today.

So many parents today, even more than when I was in, fall for the fearmongering - i.e. "your kid will be deadinsaneorinjail if you don't enroll them or if you pull them".

The only place I have heard "Exit Plan" is here on fornits.  No one is going to shun a child because of their decisions.

Probably not until the program gets ahold of them.  Then they're programmed/conditioned to kick the child out and give them no help whatsoever, unless it's going back into a program, if they're not following the exact rules.

Neither have you, Anne.  Your only experience is 30 or more years ago in a program that is closed down.  I have see the results of todays programs first hand.

Again, you have no idea what experience I have about programs today.  I've been inside programs and seen the exact same shit that was done to us.....mainly the LGAT-type crap.  Break 'em down to build 'em up.  These places fuck with a kid's psyche....their very core and especially at the time when they're trying to figure out who they are separate from their parents.  You get a skiddish or controlling parent and programs seems like the answer.

[Awake]

Whooter it sounds like you are being resistant to what Anne is saying. If you let down your guard a bit you might actually be able to take away something positive for yourself.

You have made a great first step here in deciding to re-commit yourself to your program. Do you want to talk about what’s been going on with you lately?

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[Whooter]

And put the entire blame on the kids, not in any way the program itself.

Back in your day maybe, today it is viewed as a family issue.

There are definitely punishments for not following programs versions of therapy.

Maybe so.  We would have to view what the consequences are.

So many parents today, even more than when I was in, fall for the fearmongering - i.e. "your kid will be deadinsaneorinjail if you don't enroll them or if you pull them".

No, not really.

Probably not until the program gets ahold of them.  Then they're programmed/conditioned to kick the child out and give them no help whatsoever, unless it's going back into a program, if they're not following the exact rules.

Geesh, I am sorry you had to go through all of that.  Its not the way it is today.

Again, you have no idea what experience I have about programs today.  I've been inside programs and seen the exact same shit that was done to us.....mainly the LGAT-type crap.  Break 'em down to build 'em up.  These places fuck with a kid's psyche....their very core and especially at the time when they're trying to figure out who they are separate from their parents.  You get a skiddish or controlling parent and programs seems like the answer.

You have no idea what experience I have had either.  Programs I am familiar with build the kids up and work on self esteem issues and family bonds.  I dont think you have been in one of these programs or met any of their graduates.



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[Anne Bonney]

Back in your day maybe, today it is viewed as a family issue.

Yeah, that's what they told us too.  

There are definitely punishments for not following programs versions of therapy.

Maybe so.  We would have to view what the consequences are.

Those of us who've been on the inside know very well what the punishments are.

So many parents today, even more than when I was in, fall for the fearmongering - i.e. "your kid will be deadinsaneorinjail if you don't enroll them or if you pull them".

No, not really.

Yeah, really.

Probably not until the program gets ahold of them.  Then they're programmed/conditioned to kick the child out and give them no help whatsoever, unless it's going back into a program, if they're not following the exact rules.

Geesh, I am sorry you had to go through all of that.  Its not the way it is today.

Oh yeah it is.

Again, you have no idea what experience I have about programs today.  I've been inside programs and seen the exact same shit that was done to us.....mainly the LGAT-type crap.  Break 'em down to build 'em up.  These places fuck with a kid's psyche....their very core and especially at the time when they're trying to figure out who they are separate from their parents.  You get a skiddish or controlling parent and programs seems like the answer.

You have no idea what experience I have had either.

I know you've never been inside as a "student/patient/client", so you really only know what the programs are telling you.

 Programs I am familiar with build the kids up and work on self esteem issues and family bonds. I dont think you have been in one of these programs or met any of their graduates.

You are so wrong about that.

[Troll Control]

There are no serious punishments for not attending therapy.

This quote shows astounding ignorance of how programs work and operate.

[Awake]

Geesh, I am sorry you had to go through all of that.  Its not the way it is today.

So let's work on yourself and see what might be different from then? Are you ready to get back to working on those self esteem issues of yours Whooter? Let's get it up to where it needs to be. Why don't you just start by telling me how you are doing? if you are not to threatened by my asking.


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[Whooter]

Those of us who've been on the inside know very well what the punishments are.

So since you admit you have never been inside any program except straight you have no idea if kids are punished or not in these other programs.



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[Awake]

Whooter, you want to talk about everyone and everything but YOURSELF. I understand  that is a good way to hide from yourself, but this is a place for you to work on your issues.  Step out of your square! What’s the harm in that? What would happen if you were to open up a little bit and let us know what kind of person Whooter really is?

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