Author Topic: Did you break?  (Read 7327 times)

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Offline try another castle

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Did you break?
« on: August 06, 2007, 05:01:59 AM »
Well, we all broke, to some degree or another, but when I mean break I mean really, really break. You bought into the program in its entirety, even if it took them a while to work on you. You believed in the ideology, to the point of thinking it  was revolutionary. You believed in the rules. You eagerly smooshed with friends on the floor. You copped to the smallest speck of dirt, and you felt that if you didn't take care of your feelings regularly, something bad would happen to you.


This was me. As critical as I am about my experience, I will be the first to admit that I was a total RMA drone. (and stuck out terribly as a result. because I tried too hard.) I wasn't some smart-ass who bucked the system ("resistant") and did subversive things (however big or small) that would definitely fall into the cool category, (and seriously, there are quite a few of you in here who, after hearing some of the things that you did while you were at CEDU/RMA, would fit into that category. And I mean seriously ballsy stuff.) I was one of the ones who absorbed the ideology and wanted desperately to believe it. I thought I did. I thought it was great. And it made me miserable.

CEDU-think + obsessive/compulsive personality = ow

I want to hear from others in this forum how much you bought into CEDU while you were there, and at what level, if any, you were able to resist.

I'd really appreciate it if people could also post what years they attended, and what school they went to.


My main curiosity about this is that there has been some discussion about how the ideology evolved. Was it more coercive earlier than later? I read about some of the sneaky (or not so sneaky) stuff that kids did in the late 90s that nobody would have even thought of doing when I attended. (Or maybe they did and I just never found out about it because I wasn't in on it.)

So.... yeah...  just kinda wanting to hear about how everyone else took it.
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Offline drlongjon

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Did you break?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 05:44:45 PM »
I resisted for 6 months. I then began to give in and revealed something nobody knew about me to my counselors. On my next parent visit, I had to tell my father. I did this at a campfire next to a teepee, just me and him. After I disclosed my "dirt" I tried to explain some of the ideology going on there, like giving me a spirit animal or something. It was like American Indian belief or something where a deer represented me. My dad then decided I was being brain fucked into cultish thinking and took me out of RMA in my 7th month thank god.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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I Never Broke
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2007, 05:57:28 PM »
I never broke. I never believed any of Cedu's bullshit, I never bought into the program, and I thought all of Cedu's ideas were stupid.  I knew that what was happening at Cedu was wrong,
from day one, and this didn't change.  I didn't accept anything that went on at Cedu as being healthy or normal, and I've always viewed Cedu and all of it's supporters with utmost contempt and revulsion.

I did play the game though, and I went through the motions when it suited my purposes.  For instance, the one and only time that I ever "took care of my feelings" in a rap, I screamed at the floor, pretended to cry, and basically repeated all the same shit that
the look goods had just screamed about before me ("I want to live until I'm 18", "I hate my thinking", "I'm so angry", etcetera).  I faked the whole thing after the Rap faciliator accused me of "not being emotionally ready to go home" and he threatened to cancel my upcoming home visit.  Well my ploy worked, I went home, and I split soon after I got there.  Well the PI's brought me back to hell that time, but it wasn't long before I split again and stayed out for good.

There were other times when I publicly claimed to like Cedu, and even encouraged younger studets to stay there, it was all bullshit,
I'm not proud of this, but again it served my purpose by taking the suspician off of me while I planned my next escape.  My goal always remained to get the fuck out of Cedu, and this is exactly what I did.  I took control of my life, I got the hell out, and stayed out for good.
Cedu Never Broke Me, that's for sure!
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Offline Rugby Punk

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Did you break?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2007, 01:14:02 AM »
Not sure this is a fair question in a black and white reality. Did I break? Sure I guess so. Or I played the game. Or I just plain survived with some sanity intact. Depends on your point of view, doesn't it?
I might have been hated as a look good, although I didn't tend to go after the easy target rebels to prop myself up.
I'm not proud of the way I always acted there, but I'm proud that I could walk away and carry on with my life and eventually put things in greater perspective.
Those first couple of years out of Cedu, by the way, were seriously rough when I realized how skewed my sense of reality had gotten.

Son of Serbia admits that he played the game, but he also had some raging moments of rebellion that I never could've thought of doing while I was there.
We never had an active underground, though. I think if I'd had a safety net like that, things might've gone different for me. In our era, you couldn't be sure that your friends wouldn't be slammed in a rap so hard that they would spill everything and give you up.  It's like 'Invasion' (...of the Body Snatchers. Great movie concept, but why do they have to keep remaking it over and over?)
Who do you trust that hasn't been secretly converted over to them?
That's why I really respect the hell out of anyone there during my time and before because it was so hard to rebel out without being dragged down by your own peers.
Ultimately, I can't deny anyone what they went through, or how they did it to make it mentally intact to now. I did what I could and so did they, so it seems pretty horrible to have to categorize people as either broken or not, when there's a lot of gray area inbetween. In my head and in my heart, I stayed true to who I was. They never broke me. Isn't that enough?
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Offline Anonymous

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Broken
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 08:48:55 AM »
I wish I could say I did not break... but it wasn't so simple.   I ended up splitting because I realized I would have to be a liar, an abusive bully,and a robot to survive. I was always clear on how they distorted my story.  I couldn't imagine treating people the way I would have to, or lying about myself to suceed.

So I split.

But they still broke me in the sense that I internalized a lot of its polemical thinking, rationalized some of its practices, adopted its black and white world view, and suffered an inability to truly connect with people for fear they would exploit me in the same way CEDU had.

I desperately wanted to believe that although they were unfair and misguided (and this is a gross understatement), their hearts  were in the right place.   I had to see the silver lining so I didn't live in hatred and bitterness.  But my Pollyanna attitude only set me back in terms of confronting what was real and true.  I could NOT accept what I now know.

I wish I could say I was as clear as Serb was. But I wasn't. It was extremely confusing.  I just couldn't process the blunt truth... it seeped in.

--Shanlea
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Offline Anonymous

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Breaking
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 12:22:59 PM »
Good string of posts...

Have you folks been in contact with Liam yet?

Son of Serbia? Shanlea? Have some banter with him. I enjoyed chatting and sharing my experience. The whole thing was quite cathartic for me.

Hmmmm - did I break?

BTW - I CAN tell you from personal experience that Rugby Punk DID break...that pu$$y!
(Just kidding - I know Rugby Punk - well)

Basically, I don't have a long time right now to put all of my thoughts down  on this.

I think there were a few categories for where one could fall.

1) Completely drunk from the punch - These people believed EVERYTHING they were being fed and followed the program flawlessly.
(This was maybe about 10-15%)

2) Look Goods - Didn't necessarily buy into everything, probably accepted some of the program, realized the only way to get through it was to be the "role model" Cedu student.
(About 30-40%)

3) Half and Halfs - The only analogy I can think of right now is Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. Smith eventually knew everything was bullshit, but in the begining he still maintained his everday appearences while slowly finding out the truth. Half of you thinks that what you are going through is bullshit, half of you thinks there is some merit or silver lining to what you are being taught. These people would be good, then get into some trouble, cop out, work the program, be good and then slowly creep back into some sort of understaning that there was an underlying "evil" within Cedu. For whatever reason...some things just didn't sit right.
(30-40%)

4) Rebellion and Animosity for the Program - These people knew that everything that was going on was total bullshit and couldn't participate, found most of the shit to be horribly inappropriate, and refused to sip the juice. However - Cedu had a way of making life absolutely atrocious if you kept up this behavior and at times you HAD to play nice just to try and have some friends and not work all the time. (I hated dishes - still do to this day)

5) Complete Refusal - The way cedu worked, if you kept this up for a long period of time, they lost their patience and you were somehow pulled. These people were usually moved to juevenile hall, a lock up/hospital, or ?


Keep in mind, these are rough generalizations - but I think close.

I was definitely in between 4 and 5.
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Offline psy

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Re: Did you break?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2007, 04:16:24 AM »
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Well, we all broke, to some degree or another, but when I mean break I mean really, really break. You bought into the program in its entirety, even if it took them a while to work on you. You believed in the ideology, to the point of thinking it  was revolutionary. You believed in the rules. You eagerly smooshed with friends on the floor. You copped to the smallest speck of dirt, and you felt that if you didn't take care of your feelings regularly, something bad would happen to you.


100% ditto

Yup!  Happened to me.  Really really broke...  I didn't even know it happened.  I was scared enough and I started to believe.  (I need this place, what i was doing was not working, etc...)

Ya.  I will be releasing my journal soon, with entries to that effect. (end of this month.. maybe sooner)
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Offline psy

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Re: Breaking
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2007, 04:27:50 AM »
Quote from: ""Johnny Propheet1""
I think there were a few categories for where one could fall.

But how could you tell if somebody was faking it or not.  You couldn't, and neither could the staff.  I never "broke".  I started to believe.  Big difference.  I never compromised what I believed in... they simply found a way to change my beliefs.

Once I snapped out (in program) I started a protest (demanding rights), caused a big stink, and got isolated for the rest of program (ya... i have the letters to my parents from staff to prove I actually did it).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline try another castle

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Did you break?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2007, 01:37:28 PM »
Quote
I never "broke". I started to believe. Big difference.


I disagree. You can't truly believe unless you are broken first, exception being that you were born and raised believing that ideology.

People can change their belief systems, and often do, but program belief systems were forced upon us through coercive methods. It is not simply a matter of overwriting. There must be an attempt to purge the system first, to make room for the completely contradictory, unhealthy and oppressive ideology.

Everyone who believed was broken, even the ones who still drink the kool aid. None of us went in there embracing the program. None of us consented. None of us were given the choice whether to accept this way of thinking and behaving. Even if we told ourselves that we chose to believe, it was not a choice, because our initial reaction was NO.
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Offline dniceo7

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Did you break?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2007, 02:13:21 PM »
I wanted to get out of that place so badly that I felt myself starting to break. It was my friends that kept me from breaking, though...they were good friends and to comply with the program would've meant betraying them altogether. From there I started playing the game where I could, support in a propheet, say something deep in a rap, whatever the game called for, but it was pointless. Part of playing the game meant snitching on everyone, friends and acquaintances alike, and of course refusing to be accessory to any slight bending of "agreements". It was a waste of time only playing the game to a degree; it wasn't going to get me out of there any faster and it was starting to blur the lines between what was the game and what was real. So instead I spent most of the last 8 months on what staff eventually called "one, long full-time restriction", but I had my buddies, and we had our semi-regular pipeline of bacardi from bonners ferry, and we had our occasional sack of amazing, north of the border greens, and I had her. And I'm thankful to this day I never broke.

Or started to believe, whatever the difference may be. I guess I was a bit like Psy, though I managed to snap out before the fall. No protests for me, my own was a mostly silent protest against the idea of waiting out a sentence before I could enjoy life again.
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I don\'t look at myself in the mirror because I\'m a narcissist, I simply like to watch myself exist...

Offline shanlea

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Humbug!
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2007, 02:36:20 PM »
I can tell you now that during my stay at the lovely CEDU, there were no friends who supported your real, intact self... they were all look goods, snitches, kool aid drinkers, or just trying to get by doing whatever they had to do. So, basically, my coterie of CEDU compadres did NOTHING except support the ideology, driven by koolaid or fear, or some mix of both.  We certainly had NO access to bacardi, herbs, or fun with Dick and/or Jane.

Maybe CEDU loosened up during your tenure. I was there in mid-late eighties. You couldn't get away with anything then. Back then, you could be banned from the sun, banned from books, banned from zippers. Seriously.   (Not to mention free speech/religion/thought/association/ and will.) It was completely seeped in Stepford control and ideology.

Shanlea
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hanlea

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Did you break?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2007, 04:20:17 PM »
Wow. As a 8/1/90 Grad I am amazed everytime I read posts from others who were there in the mid 90's and later.

Bacardi and chronic during an 8 month full time? Amazing. Unfathomable pre 91.

I know it's a grey area but if you had to pick a year that things truly changed. Would it be  1992?  I know the brown school takeover had much to do with it.



Broken?
Sure there are shades of grey but in an absolute sense Only people in group 1, the kool aid junkies, were broken. Who is that dude, Herman Almarez. Graduated in 88/89' and has posted here. His posts reminded me of Viki Jones on super kool aid. That's broken. Someone who fit the profile of group 1 and comes to fornits and can't appreciate any criticisms/insights or offer any - that's punch kool aid drunk .

1 thing I never could relate to was trying to fight the system there. You couldn't. Overtly resisting and/or not showing enough consistent effort to better oneself only brought upon the cedu wrath.  I accepted the reality of it ( the good & mostly bad)  & tried to make the best of it. Then again we were only 16....... If I could go back and talk to my 16 year old self  .........

Time to stop -  I'm topic jumping like a bag lady 1/2 baked on Elmers glue.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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Did you break?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2007, 05:59:08 PM »
Quote from: dishdutyfugitive
Wow. As a 8/1/90 Grad I am amazed everytime I read posts from others who were there in the mid 90's and later.

Bacardi and chronic during an 8 month full time? Amazing. Unfathomable pre 91.

I know it's a grey area but if you had to pick a year that things truly changed. Would it be  1992?  I know the brown school takeover had much to do with it. "=quote]


If things did change at Cedu RS in 1992, it must've been after
I split (in July).    Like Shanlea & the Fugitive, I could only dream about bacardi, chronic, and loyal friends who didn't rat me out during my stay at cedu.  It just didn't happen, because everyone was a sheep, and they followed cedu's dictates without question.
For me this was hardest thing of all about cedu, and it drove me fucking crazy!  

We were being abused & humiliated daily by staff who by their own admission were complete fucking failures in their personnal lives.  We were expected to follow the most riduculous and oppressive rules imaginable.  We were fed shitty food, lived in substandard housing (the boys dorms weren't even insulated), and forced to do manual labor with no compensation, which Cedu profitted from.  We were completely cut off from our families, friends, and everything we knew and loved.  We couldn't even worship freely or observe our own respective cultural beliefs (unless you were jewish).  And let's not forget to mention the fact that our education(s) were being completely overlooked & neglected......but did anyone get pissed and tell Cedu to go fuck themselves?  Did anyone actually think for themselves?  No, not really, most people just smiled, ate the shit that cedu fed them, and put all of their energy into convincing others to assimilate and accept the program.  

I think this is why I had so very few friends at Cedu,  I just couldn't respect people who not only wouldn't stand up for themselves, but who also insisted that I be as big of a tool as they were.

That's not even the worst of it.  The worst part about it is that we gave Cedu all the power they had over us.  The "success" of Cedu's program soley depended on the blind obedience of the majority of the student population, and staff knew this all too well.  In fact, "students" did more to enforce Cedu's rules, than the staff themslves. This was the reason for all of the bans & various forms of isolation that we "not-with-the-program kids" endured, it was to keep us from getting the word out to the others that we could choose not to follow the rules, and that we could take the power away from Cedu staff anytime we pleased, and bring them to their knees.

I think the generation of kids that followed me figured this out, as evidenced by undergrounds that were formed at the various facilities, and the riots that took place at NWA, Cascade, Amity School and others, which in many ways contributed to Cedu's final closure.  I only wish that my generation at Cedu got the message and stood up for themselves, but alas I could only dream of such things back then.
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Did you break?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2007, 12:55:15 AM »
This is the reason I like this forum. It's given me the opportunity to recognize and deconstruct the mirage that was cedu.

Serbia, I like the idea of a student fighting back at that time. But they had the entire situation wired. From marketing to prospective parents to graduation. It was watertight.

The core of their control was based on the following:

1. Most parents were extremely desperate to find the perfect school and fix their kid. Caroline and crew had their sales pitch wired and probably had a 75% close ratio with prospective parents. Just imagine your mom sitting there all teary eyed and Caroline saying how she once was 'their' child all fucked up beyond recognition and that cedu had saved her life and turned her into a saint that has dedicated her life to saving souls in bonners ferry. That embodies every aspect of a cult and is indicative of a fucked up society where parents can't raise their own kids because they don't have their own shit together. Sure they have prestigious job titles, own big homes, earn 300k a year and look like society's role models but as far as parenting skills they're no better than a broken frisbee at the park. On day 1 cedu had our parents locked in for the entire 2 & 1/2 year ride .

2. To up the ante many parents used the (highly cedu recommended) tactic of threatening juvenile hall/lock down if their child split/refused the program. This is the very reason I stayed and graduated. RMA or jail (with no rap sheet or court orders)?  RMA.

3. Drink the kool aid or die.

Summary:
1. We had no parental support (outside of cedu doctrine).
2. Jail is your next best option.
3. You're completely isolated from everything but cedu doctrine.
4. If you Resist/coast (consistently) you guarantee yourself the wrath.

And fuck mel wasserman. Remember how he would show up and roll around campus like he was some Ceasar with a 2 foot cock. I never saw him talk to kids. Never saw him act genuine to staff. In my book, that right there is disdain for the commoners. That is evidence enough, that that fat greasy bastard felt too anxiety riden to attempt  something so risky as to preach the sermon (nothing ventured nothing gained doesn't apply to the highest man on the totem pole). Even better, he thought himself 'above' something like that (why waste my time doing that when I can hire a dumb bastard like Steve Rookie to do it? Thus proving the joke was on not just the students but all of the staff). And the bottom line is for him to show up and not talk to the 'school' completely contradicts and undermines the 'cedu philosophy'.  That bastard cunningly figured out how to fuse a cult with a therapuetic 'teen' boarding school.

Cash was half of it and the other half was the ego boost, the high that fat bastard got from it. He probably punched the clown nightly to the thought of the systematic mind control project he created. All those stupid fuckers drinking the Kool aid he brewed up. From headmasters to staff to students to prospective parents. What a rush - all those dumb bastards lining up and willing to pay any amount of money to drink from his tap. Getting grown men to admit to bestality in front of 13 year olds in the name of therapy. Mel is a sick fuck. He sodomized Kahil Gibran's 'the prophet' and rode it all the way to the bank.

So the question remaining is had Cedu not sold to brown schools how would things have played out? How long would it have maintined it's pre-92 course? When would students have finally revolted? How about a rogue ex-staffer with the balls to come forward, find the right resources and call cedu's bluff?
And the internet's role - With the ability to access sites like fornits and civil liberties organizations, what year would the tides have turned and the cedu cult would have been exposed for what it was?

I think think Mel wasserman asked himself these very questions in 1990 and that's why he sold to Brown schools and in turn made a killing from the deal. (Go to any modern day cedu type school, click job opportunities and look at the salary for 'counselors'. It's ridiculous considering the tuition). The $ ain't going to staff. It's going to the man.
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Offline ABOUT TO SNAP

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sheep under the magnifying lens
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2007, 09:38:07 AM »
Those pig fucking staff would have blown you away in a heartbeat if they were armed and licensed to do so. Think about it. If you were a three person crew that had been there for six months and they broke us down, not by separating us and using psychological tactics against one another in raps, but by brutality you all would have been ratting each other out just as soon as a pair of pliers was waved in your map.
As soon as I saw that people who were strong willed by nature and would not drink that dang kool- aid didn't last more than a few months, and I took the plunge and did my share of splitting, and that got me starving in the desert for a while, I did concede. I did not bloody break, right. OR maybe I did. You see, of course if we magnify even the slightest bit the extent of the physical or psychological tweakage that they did (forgetting profeets, people) you would begin to see how compliance made mandatory an inability to meet and think freely. That is huge. If you survived in that old CEDU model, you either acted or drank the kook- aid. Your resistance was futile as the longer you 'acted', the worse damage you were expected to inflict on others. That still brings us back to breaking or bending morals for a span.

Acting the part was not in the psychological make up of my 14 year old self. I could either stop being resistant and play their game or be locked up 'til I was 18 OR LONGER. That perpetual threat after the desert business made my splitting or getting thrown out an impossibility. I had not been court ordered. I had not hurt anyone or myself, stolen property, or used drugs. (mostly)
They played on these and other meaningful and meaningless insecurities ad nauseum. After the ruthless raps and a few more profeets I had to change my entire view of the world...to survive psychologically. What I would say to another human being changed over time. How I viewed resistance to the kook- aid changed also as I not only survived, but was rewarded with more food and most importantly- being treated with decency. I viewed younger kids as needing to get further along just to see things my way. That's why they were little brothers. It hurt me to watch them get blown away, so I did it myself to soften the blows. It's strange, but very true. And because I wasn't a frigid, heartless pig- fucker, I tried to give constructive criticism most all of the time.  Mind, it took a few years after CEDU to learn when not to ram constructive criticism down people's throats.  Just wait until I start offering my opinions.

I got through that place all the way. And it was because I BENT that I was able to. What's wrong with that? It was because I bent my resistant will that I survived as intact emotionally and psychologically as I (disturbed, very fucking disturbed) did. I just wish I had been older so I could have shoved a four foot birch round up Mel Wasserman's gilded asshole.

I resisted until I saw it was hopeless. To Break, Believe, or Bend, (over) was the only way to survive the program intact when I was there. And to clarify bending or breaking and being what CEDU wanted you to be would have been the only way to SURVIVE at all if it was just a little more like life in physical extremity. The most visibly resistant would have been the first to die and through interesting torture techniques would've ratted your fake- ass out in the first minute or two. Of course,  you would've been brave and recalcitrant right into a very early grave, leaving a lovely young corpse.
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lease.. please... please for the love of god don\'t post pics of that said bowel movement.

Also.. this is getting old, boring, and I\'ll saying.. totally retarded.
You aren\'t acting like retards.. no.. you are a bunch of flaming retards.

There I did it.. I called you all gay retards.
Is that even possible?
Hey.. anyone know if retards swing both ways?