Author Topic: Another apology  (Read 14421 times)

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Offline blombro

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Another apology
« on: July 31, 2007, 09:19:41 AM »
Abuse is never justified, and my statements yesterday were abusive and cruel to those of you who have suffered real abuse, and suffered from the same quality of lumping everyone in the same category that I have accused others of.

I will no longer be posting here.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I need to stop before I go any deeper.  I hope those of you who I have hurt can forgive me for being an ass.
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Offline Joyce Harris

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Apology
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2007, 09:31:50 AM »
Mr. Blombro,
If your apology is for referring to me, and other Fornit posters as being CULT MEMBERS, ---then since I requested an apology; I accept your apology, and thank you for apolgizing.

Joyce Harris
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Offline nimdA

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Another apology
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2007, 09:57:48 AM »
You sure do seem to stick your foot in your mouth a lot.
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am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

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Another apology
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2007, 10:52:08 AM »
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Offline Mummie

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Another apology
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 01:20:49 PM »
Should have just let him continue to hang himself.  The apology, awesome you can accept it Joyce, but his apology won't take down the thread or what he wrote.  Bummer.
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quot;You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you.\"  -Eric Hoffer- (1902-83)

Offline Anonymous

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Another apology
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2007, 09:26:08 PM »
Blombro-  apology accepted if sincere.  Please keep in mind that when you ask for an opinion here.  You will get it.  I do find it interesting that when folks get upset when criticized, they loop eveyone here on fornits into an organization.  Its an open forum.  I don't know about  you but I didnt sign up for anything.  Please note that there are parents here who have lost children in cruel, horrific ways.  Until you have a child yourself you can not imagine what it must be like to lose a child.  Especially through abuse.  If you can put yourself in their shoes and know you were the one that sent them.. and possibly by transport... thinking you were doing the very best for them .. unknowing that you have just sent your child to a gulag.  You trusted the laws you trusted in our country you could not conceive this could be legal.  More than likely you were duped into thinking the people working with your children were "experts."  In a fight to reform or abolish these types of programs it is unfathomable to work with people who are responsible for putting children in harms way.  I think CAFETY may have the right idea to work within the industry.  It is a fine line to walk.  It will take diligence to make sure your organization is not compromised.  Now that you do have information that confirms at least one of your board members is involved with another organization that involves refering to these types of programs .. that is coersive persuation ... abusive residential treatment programs... it is time to act.  I hope that CAFETY perservers in there pursuit of this industry.  However, I ask that you consider what people have to say.  You may not understand but people are trying to help by suggesting there are issues within your organization.  No one wants to see it fail.  

Personally I have felt you were patronizing fornits posters.  I think you would be amazed at how many people in this industry use fornits for information, contacts and resources.  I would not be surprised if the GAO peruses this forum.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another apology
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2007, 11:00:03 PM »
Since it's been a while since I've visited this board, I only recently found out about the controversy involving CAFETY, which I am also a member (not on the board) of.  However, my views are not to be taken as a statement by CAFETY, as I haven't had the time to speak to anyone at this point....Yet, I think rather than boycotting an organization that has the same intent, and same core drive as anyone else trying to change this fucked up system to actually help kids (by closure or by regulation) Some basic things need to be clear.

The only thing I'd like to say in regards to this is that, as mentioned, there is a fine line to walk in the path we are going.  However, checking that fine line is the only way to actually make any of the changes necessary.  As much as nearly all of us (if not all) see the closure of all RTC's as preferable, there is a reality that must be faced.  As a survivor of a program, I still understand this reality.....there IS still a base problem that drives most parents to these places.  While we can put a lot of blame on the programs for being con artists, parents for being lazy parents, or whatever else, in at least MOST of the cases, the kids did something to get there....I know I did at least.  Now, do I agree with the treatment I got? Not at all.  I would love to see the people that ran FFS put in jail.  Yet, on a basic level, the public, and the politicians needed to make ANY change, whether it be closure or regulation, need to be reached on a middle level.  Now, CAFETY can simply cut ties with this organization or that organization, and sooner or later, it would be a job of checking each and every individual survivor to make sure they don't still communicate with any staff at a program.  Sorry, but not many people can say that that's a feasible option.  

Since working with CAFETY, I've have numerous emails thanking us, Fornits, and other sites for the info they received on where not to send their kids, and even to pull kids out of a program.  But, in those same emails, in many cases the parents (and a few of the kids that emailed) are still in a position where some sort of serious change must happen.  As much as home treatment would be preferable, the reality is there is no proven solution....on either side.  

At some point, arguing from one group to another will only cancel out the effects of each in the long run.  Realistically, there is a necessity for a middle ground if anything is going to be accomplished initially. At that point, policy can be changed to fight what is needed then.  As fucked as it is, that is how our government works.....first we abolished slavery then decades later got rid of segregation......and it's not like that even cured the racism epidemic.....it takes multiple steps.  It's unfortunate, and it's more bullshit than many of us would like to deal with....but it's the reality of the system we live in.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another apology
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2007, 11:19:52 PM »
Djjon5ny, what you say is valid. On-the-other-hand: once a problem has been identified, and documented; the MIDDLE GROUND no longer exits. The problem is what it is.  Then CAFERTY or anyone else needs to take a stand on that particular problem.
That's the issue; not taking some middle-ground while trying to "weed out, and identify problems."

Isabelle Zehnder has admitted that she refers children to Sue Scheff/PURE for placement in programs.  The WWASP vs PURE transcripts prove that Scheff continued to refer children to WWASP programs after she started PURE.
Scheff and Zehnder have written the Whitmore Blogs which support the defunct Whitmore Academy and both suppport the prior owners, the Sudweekds, who have been convicted of crimes in 3 countries, Canada, Mexico and the US. These blogs are filled with lies, and they bash parents and their children.

A Cafferty board member, Alex has posted on fornits that he and his organization NYRA--he is the Executive Director of NYRA -- supports Isabelle Zehnder. That's no middle ground.  That is support of Zehnder, CAICA.

Copious documentation is available on Fornits, ISAC and CAFETY for you to read.  
Blombro has already insulted posters who state their views of Zero Tolerance for referring any child to any program.
Alex has posted his political views.
Zero Tolerance stands, IMO
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Offline nimdA

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Another apology
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2007, 11:20:42 PM »
So you are ok with the NYRA linking to CAICA?
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am the metal pig.

Offline Rachael

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Another apology
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 11:21:09 PM »
Quote from: ""djjone5ny""
While we can put a lot of blame on the programs for being con artists, parents for being lazy parents, or whatever else, in at least MOST of the cases, the kids did something to get there....I know I did at least.


What counts as "doing something to get there"? Smoking pot a couple of times with your friends (like a 12 year old girl I was in treatment with)? Buying a pair of pleather pants (13 year old Lulu Corter's crime before spending 13 years at Kids)? Wanting to spend some time with your friends (a girl's story from Hepzibah House)?

I would argue that in MOST cases, the children being incarcerated are just acting as teenagers should. Experimenting, challenging accepted social norms, disagreeing with parents, teachers, et al... These are healthy behaviours in adolescents. As a society we cannot grow without each successive generation challenging that which came before it and trying to do better. Complete lack of conflict is not healthy - it is stagnation.

As the good Frank Zappa said "The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents - because they have a tame child-creature in their house." We should not be trying to cultivate "tame child-creatures" but rather thinking, independant people who can try to pull us out from the stinking bog we've chosen to build our civilization on.
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Justice, Justice shall you pursue.

Deuteronomy 16:20

Offline Rachael

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Another apology
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2007, 11:24:09 PM »
For myself, I disagreed with my mother. That was enough. The fact that I'd smoked pot about ten times and used LSD four times was secondary. I had the audacity to tell my mother she was wrong and a hypocrite. So she had me locked away. Paid for me to be "taught powerlessness" and to be "broken and built back up again" into a more pleasant to be around version of herself. My brain "needed a little washing". And I needed to stop "being in my head" so they took books and school and talking away from me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Justice, Justice shall you pursue.

Deuteronomy 16:20

Offline nimdA

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Another apology
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2007, 11:25:09 PM »
I missed that part of the post. Good point Rachel.
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am the metal pig.

Offline Joyce Harris

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Another apology
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2007, 11:43:03 PM »
[quote="djjone5ny"  While we can put a lot of blame on the programs for being con artists, parents for being lazy parents, or whatever else, in at least MOST of the cases, the kids did something to get there....I know I did at least.  

The only thing my daughter "did to get there" to be enrolled at Whitmore Academy was to have the misfortune of spending the first 7 years of her life in an abusive, neglectful Romania orphange; and developing Reactive Attachment Disorder.
Our family was lied to; and Whitmore Academy was misrepresented to us an an " Fully accredited Academic Boarding School which specialized in treating attachment disorder."

I can provide you with the glossy advertising brochures, if you would like to read them.

We may have been "stupid, lazy, mis-informed" parents; or anything else you choose to call us--but we certainly never signed up to have our daughter enrolled in a "FACILITY" where we removed our daughter after 7 weeks amid allegations of child abuse against the owners.  Nor did we expect the owner to later cop a plea for the charges against her in the Whitmore Academy criminal case.

NO SIR, the only thing my daughter "did" was trust her parents to find her a proper school and therapy---and we failed her.   You may blame me and her father; but you may not blame my daughter.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another apology
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2007, 11:46:51 PM »
Clearly, your case, as well as others like that are not the ones i'm talking about.  As a matter of fact, one kid I was at FFS with was sent when he was 11....had never done drugs, never drank, was basically a little eric cartman.....and being around the kids at FFS made him want to actually be the "bad" kid.....he got shot this past January as a result of trying to be tough...clearly FFS did not help him....it made matters far worse.

On the same side, while i agree that many kids are sent for "just being teenagers" there are those whose options are jail (and a criminal record), or the kids that literally can not get into schools after getting kicked out of too many....that was my case in both aspects.  Now, I'm sure sooner or later my parents could have found somewhere else to send me, but at every school (as in private prep school type and public schools) I found ways to get kicked out because I was sick of being away from my friends.  Legally, I was in shit for bomb scares, dealing, assault, graffiti, and as much as I hate to admit it, probably would not have stopped had I not been sent away.......BUT

I will also say the program itself still did more harm than good....nightmares led to a long long relapse in the same drugs, dealing to support myself, and still getting arrested prior to military enlisment, and after getting kicked out of the army......eventually, I looked at my life and realized that the shit was getting old and I needed to change.

When my parents ask me this same question and say that I "needed" to change....I still tell them that I think I would have ended up in the same place I am now, just years sooner if I had let it run its course when I was a teen.....but do I know that?  No.  It's easy to look on it in hindsight and say that things would have been different, because you've gained the wisdom about the hell you've been through and the shit that had to change.

As for cases where kids have no real reason to be sent to ANY program....this is where regulation and checks on the system are necessary.  As much as it's hard to believe that there could be good programs, the hypothetical possibility is still there.....I mean, enough GOOD people that wanted to actually create such a place is entirely possible, although power is a dangerous drug.  

Anyway, I'm not going to say one person's reasons are more severe than another, because the truth is, each person's story is their own and can be taken in any way.  The reality still remains that to simply boycott an organization for looking for the only realistic path to making the general public question this is not helpful either.

For every parent that sends their kid to a program so that they can just take a vacation from parenting, there is another parent that truly sees their child in danger.  While I hate to admit it, 3 of my high school friends that I got high with OD'd while I was at FFS......would I have made it 4?  Who knows....but that type of possibiltiy is why the general public and politicians will not simply close all RTC's.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another apology
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2007, 11:47:07 PM »
These CAFETY chaps aren't much on the up and up in the PR game are they?

I say boycott them for being insensitive assholes myself. That alone is enough.
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