Parents don't want to listen

[Anonymous]

I think Johnny Ringo has had a lobotomy.

[Anonymous]

This began as one of the most civilized discussions I have witnessed on this slanderous site.  However, we continue to go back to baseless claims of broken promises, cruelty, abuse, neglect, and finally personal attacks.

I could play this same game.  I could come on here everyday and say Guest you're and idiot.  But I don't.  What I do is take each fact you produce and argue it logically.  This may in fact prove you to be an idiot but I don't have to slander, make personal attacks or offer baseless claims.

I do how ever apologize for using logic now that I understand that many of you have severe learning disabilities.  I just can't resort to, "I know you are, but what are you?"

[Anonymous]

- The teaching faculty at HLA hold a Bachelor to a Doctorate level degree in education.

GAC requires teachers to have at least a Bachelor's level education.  HLA teachers have at least a Bachelor's level education.

- Full time nurse on staff.

I am aware of very few instances where a full time nurse has not been on staff.  These typically have been between one nurse leaving and another being hired.  Be careful that you are not reading this as RN versus LPN, however.

- An estimated 15% of Hidden Lake Academy students have been diagnosed with a learning disorder and have an Individual Education Plan in place.

See no issues here, though I am unfamiliar with the statistics.

- An Individualized Therapeutic Plan, including clinical treatment goals, is maintained and revised by the clinical team throughout the enrollment of the student.

Students do not only have a therapeutic treatment plan based on the curriculum but also an individualized plan that is designed around the presenting problems.

- All Counseling Staff are full-time and are clinically trained, holding a Master’s Degree or higher.

All counselors work full-time, have completed some form of clinical training and hold a master's degree or higher.

- Parents are informed of and involved in their child’s therapeutic work through the program via monthly written Counselor Reports, weekly update calls from the child’s Counselor.

Monthly reports were replace by Element Reports to reduce redunancy.  Weekly calls are made to parents until Wind Element when they become bi-weekly.

- Counselors receive weekly supervision by Doctoral and licensed Staff. In addition, biweekly therapeutic staffings are held to develop specific treatment goals and interventions for each student.

Counselor's do recieve supervision by licesed LPC and/or Doctoral staff.  Be careful that you are not reading this as licensed LPC's and Licensed Ph.D/Psy.D's.  All supervision is also overseen by Dr. Buccellato who possess a license.  Treatment plans are updated during supervision and or at weekly counselor meetings and between elements.

- A special skills program is available at HLA for students with special education needs. The academic history of these students, along with the results of the diagnostic reading and math test given upon entrance are thoroughly reviewed. Decisions are then made for placement into traditional classes, special skills classes, or a combination of the two. Teachers are provided information concerning the student's strengths and weaknesses. A certified special education teacher facilitates both classroom instruction and consultation. Students with special strengths are challenged through individualized activities. Gifted students are given opportunities such as literary debate meetings, mock legal trials, and many other challenges to stimulate their individual abilities.

A special skills program is indeed available at HLA  including a learning computer lab (or at least was before the fire).   Harper was the certified special education teacher.  There is currenlty a special education teacher on staff, however I am unaware of her certification.  College level courses have been taught on campus.  Students are given opportunities to participate in mock trials, debates, philosophy club, business club, chess club, National Honor Society, Student Council, etc.

- Hidden Lake Academy's Art and Theatre Programs are designed to be more than artistic enrichment.

HLA's Art program has included showing at local galleries which students can attend.  Theatre presentations have been presented both on campus and off.

- Can HLA provide a safe, healthy environment and teach my child self control? This same structure provides for the emotionally, psychologically, and socially safe environment where students may explore and learn to appropriately express feelings and work to heal past hurts. HLA is not a locked facility; however, physical safety is provided by round-the-clock staffing, dormitory security systems, and limited access to the campus.

HLA is not a locked campus, it is staffed 24 hours, it does have dormitory security and access to campus is limited.

- Our students are not court-ordered to HLA and do not include violent or severely disturbed children.

This is correct, no student has been court-ordered to attend HLA.  Don't confuse this with students who have been either court-ordered to attend a program or with whom an agreement has been reached to drop or lessen charges if a student attends a program.  HLA does not knowingly admit violent or severely distrubed children, however, as discussed elsewhere , some parents are not forthcoming with information regarding the severity of their child's disorder and this is only realized after admission.  These families are encouraged to seek alternative placement.

- HLA teachers hold a minimum Bachelor to Doctoral level degree, Counselors and the teaching staff work together to assure every child the optimal opportunity for academic success that will lead to positive, and successful future endeavors.

All HLA teachers hold a minimum of a Bachelor's degree.  The counseling and education department work closely together to meet the students academic needs.

- Teachers' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's or Master's Degree in related field with teaching
certificate.

All HLA teachers hold a minimum of a Bachelor's degree.  Again, Be careful that you are reading is correctly it does not say:
Bachelor's Degree with teaching certificate or Master's Degree in related field with teaching certificate.

- Counselor's Minimum Qualifications:
Master's Degree in related field. Commitment to 22-26
month contract or the duration of the assigned peer group
through to graduation.

All counselors have a Master's Degree in a related field and all ethical counselors are commited to graduating the peer group with which they started.

- Assistant Counselors' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's Degree or above in related field.

HLA does not currently utilize Assistant Counselors but do utilize some Bachelor's level staff who are seeking a Master's Degree to assist counselors with groups.  I am unaware of the qualifications for the Recreational Counselors.

It appears that HLA provides all that you have listed.  These services may not be what you expected or what you believe you read but they are all met.  HLA provides parents an opportunity for a complete tour of the campus and all issues can be clarified at that point.  So, looks like you got what was advertised and what you paid for.

I apologize for the length of this post, don't want to be confused with Robert B. and his inane ramblings.

Johnny Ringo - You're trying to make gold out of a pile of shit. You'd make a good PR person with the way you "spin" the issues at hand. The interpretation of what was sold and what was received is based on the experience of the actual consumer. You aren't a consumer - you're the one trying to sell a sub-standard "product". These items are only what is listed in print - don't get us started on what we were promised during phone calls or face-to-face conversations.

But again, this is the typical HLA manipulation. Word things so they sound good, but write them in a manner that can be interpreted to HLA's advantage when it becomes necessary.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe HLA is attempting to use these written promises as some form of legal contract.  That would be you.  If you are going to assume that what is stated on a web site is a legal written contract then HLA has the write to argue those statements in a legal manner.  If you were told, promised, avowed, etc. any thing else you should have gotten it in in writing.  That's good business.

[Anonymous]

johhny, there ARE laws in this country against false advertising. unless you go to florida....there a little more relaxed there with scams and fraud...maybe you should move HLA to florida? that way you'll never have problems with lawsuits. untill a 17 year old black kid dies after being beaten to death. (yall know what i'm talking about....)

[Anonymous]

Give me a break.  Nothing in what was listed suggests false advertising.  Why is it that none of the individuals on this site can take responsibility.  You obviously could afford to send your child to a private therapeutic boarding school for $6000.00 per month.  I can only assume that you managed to earn the level of income this would require by being financially sound and educated.

Many people here like to use the analogy of the automobile.  Most of you would not spend the money on an automobile with out researching prices and deals, maybe checking consumer reports, talking to a dealer, test driving the car, comparing options.  However, you want everyone to believe that you got completely taken by an organization that you entrusted your child to.  

Now, either 1)HLA has some of the most expert, top-notch confidence people working for them that are capable of talking even the most financial sauve individuals out of enormous amounts of money (why these grifters are working for HLA and not independently we can discuss later) or 2) you made an impulse decision with what should be the most valueable thing in your life and regret it.

Those families who do an exhaustive search of programs and choose HLA are much more likely to have children who successfully graduate the program and are completely happy with the program and it's results.

It's time to take some responsiblity.

[Anonymous]

Now, either 1)HLA has some of the most expert, top-notch confidence people working for them that are capable of talking even the most financial sauve individuals out of enormous amounts of money (why these grifters are working for HLA and not independently we can discuss later) or 2) you made an impulse decision with what should be the most valueable thing in your life and regret it.

both, fool. point #1 is accomplished right before the ed consultant and parent tours come through (dogwood etc.), by using the kids to really clean the living crap out of the campus, renting golf carts, putting problem makers on restrictions regardless of their guilt and isolating the restrictions across the lake or in the chalet. this gives everyone a very very good impression. also, the going-ons in HLA are kept under wraps. almost no one but the staff and students know what really goes on, and how the school works becouse it's such a "hidden" school. therefore the only thing about the school that any outside source can evaluate is the superficial, surface aspects of the school. and those parts ARE nice...that campus does kinda kick ass. not the buildings or the plumbing or the sewage tho. that place would be the ultimate pot farm...all those dorm rooms, what possibilities!

#1 is also accomplished by paying the travel expenses for family vacations and such for a select group of highly reputable consultants  (leslie goldberg). giving them no choice but to refer kids.

#2, well, the entire industry is based on feeding of off parents weaknesses. when a kid is acting out, parents ALWAYS panic. how do you think a parent would feel if a kid just dropped the bomb, told his parents that, say, he's spent $20,000 on coke in the last few months? instantanious panic, sleepless nights, and constant worry "my kid can O.D any minuite". whats funny is that the admissions people play on that, (along with sites like strugglingteens). whatever the parents fear may be, they reinforce it. this is an average conversation between admissions and parents. my mom said hers went something like this

mom:"hey, i'm looking to placing my kid in a program like yours. he's been skipping school, smoking pot (even in the morning), stealing, sneaking out at night, and he just wont listen. whenever i try to talk to him he gets angry, and whenever i punish him he punishes me. would you recomend your program to my son?"

admissions:"at Hidden lake we provide support for troubled teens who struggle at school and in their family lives. your child sounds like he is really struggling. you should definitely seek placement for him, he is participating in some risky activities. if he keeps smoking and skipping school, he'll invariably end up dropping out of high school, and you wont ever have a decent relationship with him. you should most definitely also look into other programs, as every program is a little different. i can give you some names of educational consultants if you wish to talk to someone impartial who specializes in cases like yours.........."

 most parents who send their kids to HLA make the decision over the course of maybe a week or two, if that. this is kinda obvious, considering untill recently kids would arive at a consistant rate thoughout the year, from 8-15 kids a month. kids would come in randomly. %90 of hla's bussiness comes from impulse decisions.


why the hell do you think the contract was what it was??? (till the judge said the contract itself broke the laww.....)

[Anonymous]

Watching the employee and the parents fight is rather like watching Sunni and Shia terrorists kill each other. Whoever loses, we win (because HLA is financially hosed anyway, the lawsuit just determines how much loot Len gets away with, unless he's too stupid to take the money and run).

For the confused, I'll summarize his twofold argument.

1. Your kids are much more resistant/hateful/vicious than you ever dreamed, so of course it didn't work.

2. You were an underinformed moron for picking HLA, so blame yourselves for your dumb decision.

Which is what we've been saying on Fornits all along, really. I just never thought I'd see the day that a programmie would come along and start using hacked-up versions of them. I don't know whether this is desperation, back-asswards enlightenment, or both.

It's time to take some responsiblity.

The complete irony aside, YES! We are responsible for smashing the hell out of HLA. And we will continue to be responsible for smashing the hell out of similar hellholes. Even if we have to use eminently retarded parents to do it.

Beat as much retarded-parent ass as you can, Johnny- we're with you all the way.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe HLA is attempting to use these written promises as some form of legal contract.  That would be you.  If you are going to assume that what is stated on a web site is a legal written contract then HLA has the write to argue those statements in a legal manner.  If you were told, promised, avowed, etc. any thing else you should have gotten it in in writing.  That's good business.

Johhny Ringo - You are woefully ignorant of consumer law and contractual law. It would behoove you to brush up on the knowledge of consumer's rights with regard to advertising and the "assumptions" that are derived from such advertising.

It's a good thing HLA has you on their side and you're willing to go down with the sinking ship.

[Anonymous]

#1 is accomplished right before the ed consultant and parent tours come through (dogwood etc.), by using the kids to really clean the living crap out of the campus, renting golf carts, putting problem makers on restrictions regardless of their guilt and isolating the restrictions across the lake or in the chalet. this gives everyone a very very good impression. also, the going-ons in HLA are kept under wraps. almost no one but the staff and students know what really goes on, and how the school works becouse it's such a "hidden" school. therefore the only thing about the school that any outside source can evaluate is the superficial, surface aspects of the school. and those parts ARE nice...that campus does kinda kick ass. not the buildings or the plumbing or the sewage tho. that place would be the ultimate pot farm...all those dorm rooms, what possibilities!

So, let's abreviate, some parents are incredibly gulible and this would make them spiteful and vindictive and......

#2, well, the entire industry is based on feeding of off parents weaknesses. when a kid is acting out, parents ALWAYS panic. how do you think a parent would feel if a kid just dropped the bomb, told his parents that, say, he's spent $20,000 on coke in the last few months? instantanious panic, sleepless nights, and constant worry "my kid can O.D any minuite". whats funny is that the admissions people play on that, (along with sites like strugglingteens). whatever the parents fear may be, they reinforce it. this is an average conversation between admissions and parents. my mom said hers went something like this

...many of their children are so incredibly bad they need to be housed immediately.

How is this HLA's fault?



[/quote]

[Anonymous]

because they are exploiting a weakness. those kids arnt so bad they need to be locked up. just becouse someone snorted tons of coke doesnt mean they need to be sent away for 2 years. A month in rehab, followed by a few weeks in the wilderness (not necessarily a wilderness program), will most definitely do the trick. a little follow-up therapy and regular urine testing might be a good idea, but not neccesary.

HLA exploits parents weaknesses the same way:

a bartender exploits an alchoholic
a crack dealer exploits a crackhead
the armed forces exploits the lower class
or dare i say.....the same way a SCAM ARTIST exploits the FOOLISH.

some things are legal. some arnt. just becouse something is legal doesnt mean it's not wrong, or that it wont be made illegal. and just because something is Illegal doesnt neccesarily mean it's wrong, or that it wont be made legal.

the point is regardless of the legality there is a instinctual sense that most people have that distinguishes right from wrong. you know very well that what you do is wrong, but you try to twist it to make it look right.

dozens of staff, hundreds of kids and scores of parents have a problem with what you did/are doing, which is why the staff leave, the kids rebel, and the parents full their kids and sue the school. untill you and the rest of your compatriots see what is fundamentally wrong with your outlook on life, your school and your industry will continue to spiral down out of control.

at a fundamental level, HLA is simply a private prison parents send bad kids to because they didnt break any laws to be eligible to be sent to a real prison. they make it seem like they "rehabilitate" and "educate" and make kids "grow emotionally". in reality 99% of kids leaving HLA start doin drugs again (tho usually not hard drugs), have the same level of education they had when they came (although not on paper). although kids DO grow somewhat emotionally, in my opinion its really caused more because of a quick, forced maturation as a result of living a difficult life for a while. though most kids leave with enough connections to get them "by" in the underworld for life.

personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.

now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?

[Anonymous]

personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.

:rofl: Such ownaj. Law of Unintended Consequences wins every time. :rofl:

[Anonymous]

"A month in rehab, followed by a few weeks in the wilderness (not necessarily a wilderness program), will most definitely do the trick. a little follow-up therapy and regular urine testing might be a good idea, but not neccesary."

This is briliant.  How can you say HLA did nothing for you?  You seem to have found a simple solution to the entire drug problem of America; a little rehab, a little time in the woods, a little therapy and we're all good.  Why didn't the rest of us think of this.  Thanks Guest.  You should have come forward so many billions of dollars and millions of lives sooner.

personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.

This is a good point.  You may not have made your point that HLA is a bad school but you certainly show that your priorities are all screwed up as well as your values, associations and willingness to obey simple rules and laws.  And with the  "now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs." it seems that your priorities continue to be screwed up.  Just go get you some rehab, some wilderness and some therapy; you'll be fine.

now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?[/quote]

I would call HLA a therapeutic boarding school that stood in the way of you getting what you sorely needed; prison!

[Anonymous]

This is briliant.  How can you say HLA did nothing for you?  You seem to have found a simple solution to the entire drug problem of America; a little rehab, a little time in the woods, a little therapy and we're all good.  Why didn't the rest of us think of this.  Thanks Guest.  You should have come forward so many billions of dollars and millions of lives sooner.


This is a good point.  You may not have made your point that HLA is a bad school but you certainly show that your priorities are all screwed up as well as your values, associations and willingness to obey simple rules and laws.  And with the  "now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs." it seems that your priorities continue to be screwed up.  Just go get you some rehab, some wilderness and some therapy; you'll be fine.

now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?

I would call HLA a therapeutic boarding school that stood in the way of you getting what you sorely needed; prison![/quote]


parents, this is what you will encounter if you send your kids to HLA. Bigoted, right-wing hillbillies with a saviour complex. this is a perfect example of the "HLA" attitude.

[Anonymous]

"A month in rehab, followed by a few weeks in the wilderness (not necessarily a wilderness program), will most definitely do the trick. a little follow-up therapy and regular urine testing might be a good idea, but not neccesary."

This is briliant.  How can you say HLA did nothing for you?  You seem to have found a simple solution to the entire drug problem of America; a little rehab, a little time in the woods, a little therapy and we're all good.  Why didn't the rest of us think of this.  Thanks Guest.  You should have come forward so many billions of dollars and millions of lives sooner.

personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.

This is a good point.  You may not have made your point that HLA is a bad school but you certainly show that your priorities are all screwed up as well as your values, associations and willingness to obey simple rules and laws.  And with the  "now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs." it seems that your priorities continue to be screwed up.  Just go get you some rehab, some wilderness and some therapy; you'll be fine.

now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?

I would call HLA a therapeutic boarding school that stood in the way of you getting what you sorely needed; prison![/quote]



OH and i forgot to mention just becouse you are posting as a "guest" doenst mean we dont know who you are, johhnyR/jeffy hollowhead. there is something called an I.P address. that and the writing style and negative, self destructive attitude is still there.

i think jeffy needs a 7-day, dont you?! maybe we can get some fallout out of him.

one day when child prisons are illegal (which they WILL be fairly soon...them democrats have zero tolerace for institutional child abuse...neither does gulliani), i'm going to open up a prison to help those troubled ex-staff who really need some supervision and attention. then i'll see how they feel.

quit pushing your ultra-right wing reactionary politics on this forum Johhny/jeffy. Hitler lost, remember? and marijuana IS decriminalized....remember? and child abuse IS illegal...remember? and so is spousal abuse.....jeffy.......

even your wife HATES you. how do i know that? dont ask. i know. just go suck on a doggy dick. you suck at life.