Author Topic: Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch  (Read 7570 times)

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Offline METALGOD8

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2003, 03:17:00 AM »
Thanks Majik! :smokin:
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Offline FaceKhan

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2003, 04:06:00 AM »
Aaah I hate WWASP with a passion and I don't even know anyone who was ever in it. I think I hate them because I used to have more faith in people before I started researching them. I would have sooner assumed that there was an ongoing holocaust in the United States than an organized crime/cult group that dupes intelligent, wealthy parents into sending more or less normal teenagers to be tortured and mindraped.


It would have seemed so far fetched to me a few years ago that American adults as a group feel so much generalized contempt for teenagers that they could rationalize the crime against humanity (as well as the future) that is the private youth prison industry.


WWWASP may  be on its way out and it very well could be if Narvin gets convicted that it will provide the momentum and media attention necesary to get TB shut down in jamaica as well as their many facilities in the US (6-8 I think in operation)

Criminal liability is the only way to truly shut these places down. When the Kay's and the Lichfields and Atkins go to prison WWASP will be dead. Suing them is just not enough, they are protected by so many layers of liability protection in their corporate structure that it would take yars to break through and hurt the individuals who run things and then they would just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying and start again.
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Offline Antigen

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2003, 01:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-26 01:06:00, FaceKhan wrote:

"Aaah I hate WWASP with a passion and I don't even know anyone who was ever in it. I think I hate them because I used to have more faith in people before I started researching them. I would have sooner assumed that there was an ongoing holocaust in the United States than an organized crime/cult group that dupes intelligent, wealthy parents into sending more or less normal teenagers to be tortured and mindraped.


Yeah, that's how most people still think. That's been the problem. I can't tell you how encouraging it is to me when someone like you sees it too. Last week, when the first Dundee story hit the NYT I got mail from all over, privately and also on lists that I sometimes haunt, asking me what these people had to do with Straight. It's starting to resonate. People are startiong to get it.

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807059099/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446

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Offline Majiktrvls

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2003, 04:11:00 PM »
According to the articles that are circulating here in Utah, Lichfield is in jail, and hopefully being subjected to the same torture that he presented to the youth who were sent to his "loving care"! Imagine, Lichfield being raped by the likes of the "Gary Gilmores, and Roberto Arguilles" of the prison populations here in this fine state. The people of ST. George are probably all up in arms about this guy being locked up. (After all, he brings in a huge amount of revenue for the city and state, and the tax dollars are dwindling down for every moment that he is not in action.)Apparently the guy who was supposed to be taking care of the business in Costa Rica has his hands full trying to get the kids out and back to the states, poor baby!
Too bad we can't just lock him in the vermit infested corridors of his so called "treatment" facility.
Thank goodness for Pani being unwilling to allow this treatment any longer.
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Offline Antigen

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2003, 12:18:00 AM »
Look at the most recent one from NYT (recent thread in this forum). Narvin was released after 30 hours and ordered to stay in the country. I wonder if they're watching to see if he does. I hope so, but am not counting on it.

Even if he squirms and slithers away, at least Costa Rica has shut them down after only a year and a half and put others on notice that they just don't put up with that sort of thing in their country. Now, wtf is wrong with America!? For over 30 goddamned YEARS these people have been abusing children and tearing families apart for fun and profit. How much longer will it take us to get up to speed with countries like Costa Rica and the Chezk Republic?

The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.

                               
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Paul+Tillich%22&btnG=Google+Search' target='_new'>Paul Tillich

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Offline Anonymous

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2003, 12:46:00 AM »
What you aren't hearing is that the chaos started because an alcoholic non-custodial parent went there to see her daughter.  The girl didn't even want to see this mother, that's when this mother brought in the authorities.  Could this is the same person who has been writing all the attacks (Carey??) on this site?  She hurt a lot of kids and parents by doing this for whatever motives she had for herself.  Did you know that out of the 200 kids there, 170 said they wanted to stay! What purpose would they have in saying they wanted to stay when they knew they didn't have to and there was no fear from saying this?  From what I've read here, this "slam" sight is full of angry people that 1- have no experience of the positive results it creates (no, it's not a cult and if you had experience of it you would know that) 2-teens that spent a long time there and did nothing or little with the gift their parents were giving them, or 3- teens that manipulated their parents into believing they were being abused or starved or whatever just to get a ticket home. (gee, what got them there in the first place??)  Dundee is closing until the allegations are checked out and proven to be false.  Just like any newspaper article, go ahead and believe what you read if you choose to,but know there is SO MUCH more to this story from those that know what really happened.  Do you really think there are 200 parents that are stupid enough to knowingly put their child in danger?  And yes, plenty of them had been there more than once.  A little secret...most kids in the beginning will say ANYTHING to come home and abuse is the number one tactic because they think it will work.  My son has been home for almost 3 years from another WWASP facility and I KNOW what it taught him and my family has worked for the long term. Most of us wouldn't even think of posting on this site, because it's such a negative place to be - so many assumptions - let the investigation tell the truth.  My educated experience comes from Cross Creek Programs -
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Offline METALGOD8

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2003, 03:47:00 AM »
Well, you must be that one person that was "saved" after having your son thrown to the lions and I suppose you got your money's worth in the meantime. As more time passes, I doubt you will say the same thing.
What lack of parent skills created the situation where you could not control your child to the point where you saw fit to pay someone to do such terrible things to him? Being stupid has nothing to do with that. You could be the most intelligent person on Earth, so what?  
 I went through straight inc 20 years ago and graduated with all the honors. Back then, I was all gung ho too. If you only took some time to see what the overall picture of WWASP is, maybe you might have a different view of these places. Does your son know anyone from these cross creek programs that are dead now from suicide? Please get your head out of the sand, thank you.
 

MG8 :smokin:
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Offline Antigen

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2003, 04:17:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-05-26 21:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What you aren't hearing is that the chaos started because an alcoholic non-custodial parent went there to see her daughter.

No, actually, what started all the trouble was a former academy director, Amberly Knight, wrote to the Costa Rican minister for child welfare, saying that "Dundee Ranch Academy should not be allowed to operate because it is poorly managed, takes financial advantage of parents in crisis, and puts teens in physical and emotional risk."
[New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/inter ... &position= ]

Quote
The girl didn't even want to see this mother, that's when this mother brought in the authorities.  Could this is the same person who has been writing all the attacks (Carey??) on this site?  

Carey's sons are already out. And I have to say, that lady has my admiration. It must have taken some considerable raw courage along with fast thinking to walk right in, break out with those two boys and then talk her way past Customs and Immigration, despite the fact that the staff at Dundee had their pasports locked in a safe back at the office.  ::bangin:: " --IBID

That, in the more comonly accepted reality, is the sort of thing most people think of when you say something like "A lot of kids were hurt".

Quote
From what I've read here, this "slam" sight is full of angry people that 1- have no experience of the positive results it creates (no, it's not a cult and if you had experience of it you would know that) 2-teens that spent a long time there and did nothing or little with the gift their parents were giving them, or 3- teens that manipulated their parents into believing they were being abused or starved or whatever just to get a ticket home. (gee, what got them there in the first place??)  

Well, there are currently 493 registered users, 84 of whom have posted in the last 30 days and 13 of whom have registered in the past week. Then there are the considerable number of anonymous posters. As far as I know, not one teenager. In fact, most of us could well be described as "over the hill". And most of us have had considerably more experience with this Synanon based cult than you have yet. See, we've all come out the other end and have the benefit of hind-sight. You, my friend and spiritual brother (or sister) are still deep in the fog. Come back when you've quit drinking the kool aid.

Quote
Dundee is closing until the allegations are checked out and proven to be false.  

Or when Hell freezes over, whichever comes first. :wink:

Quote
Just like any newspaper article, go ahead and believe what you read if you choose to,but know there is SO MUCH more to this story from those that know what really happened.  

I'm Tryin' ta' tell ya', friend!

Quote
Do you really think there are 200 parents that are stupid enough to knowingly put their child in danger?

Do you believe there are millions of people stupid enough to buy into EST, Scientology and Jim and Tammy Baker? Were there another 50k or so parents stupid enough to buy into Straight, Inc. and untold numbers more who continue to get sucked dry by this same cult under it's new names?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
--Albert Einstein



Quote
 And yes, plenty of them had been there more than once.  A little secret...most kids in the beginning will say ANYTHING to come home and abuse is the number one tactic because they think it will work.  My son has been home for almost 3 years from another WWASP facility and I KNOW what it taught him and my family has worked for the long term. Most of us wouldn't even think of posting on this site, because it's such a negative place to be - so many assumptions - let the investigation tell the truth.  My educated experience comes from Cross Creek Programs - "


Funny, so many of these kids get shackled in their beds and even drugged to get them to these virtual paradises because they're chronic runaways. And now you're saying that all they ever wanted was to go home? That seems rather odd, don't you think? And, if the problem was running away, and suddenly the kid wants nothing more than the warmth and affection of their loving and faultless[sic] parents, then why don't they just declare the kid cured and send them back to good old mom and pop?

Honey, I'd be willing to bet good money that your son has tried to tell you how phucked up that place was. You don't want to hear it. You seem to have a gift for selective perception.

Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
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Offline Carey

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2003, 08:58:00 AM »
I want to help you get the facts straight.

First, I am not an alcoholic, as I only have a drink maybe two or three times a year.

Second, I don't have a daughter who was at Dundee, I have twin boys who were at Dundee.

Third, I was at Dundee in October of last year and I did not bring any authorities with me, I brought a news reporter, an educational consultant and two body guards.  (I took the reporter so there would be a record and I took the other three individuals because they had already been there and they knew what I would encounter.)

Fourth, Dundee is closing because of human rights violations.

"Do you really think there are 200 parents that are stupid enough to knowingly put their child in danger?"  NO, I don't think that at all. I am not going to call anybody stupid, I would have to know them personally to be able to make that determination.  However, from your post and the statements made thereon, I do question where you get your facts.  This is what I think about the 200 parents who had children at Dundee. I beleive alot of the 200 parents were deceived by the marketing techniques that WWASP uses.  I beleive that some parents are in denial, maybe such as yourself, because they are afraid and they want so badly for their kids to be ok.  And, I beleive that some parents really don't care.

All I did was turn on a light so that the other millions of people in the US and abroad could see the choice that some parents were making in regard to "straigening out their children." If it is determined that  what was going on down there at Dundee, was not abusive, then so be it.  But you and I both know that won't be the case.  So for those like you who are angry with me, you are angry because I have made others aware of your choice.  I have made others aware of what I beleive is abusive.  That is all that I have done.

So, let's let the investigation tell the truth.  But when all is said and done, lets beleive what is disclosed from doing so.
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Offline METALGOD8

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2003, 12:04:00 PM »
Best get the hip waders on, golly jeez.  :question:

MG8 :smokin:
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Offline FaceKhan

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2003, 01:52:00 PM »
I would guess that they don't allow pregnant women for 2 reasons one is that the seminars put the same kinds of brainwashing stress levels and subtle food deprivation (by delaying mealtimes by several hours ) that the kids go through in the gulags. Which obviously a pregnant woman with her nutritional needs would not tolerate. The other reason that I think they figured that most men and women would probably not accept some asshole trying to break down a pregnant woman. That might just be the limit to which they their promise to listen to the whole thing still binds them.

Well I am sure that is what they are telling parents but Costa Rica is a bit funny about things going on in their country. They have this crazy idea that they make the rules and that Dundee will open or not open based on what their courts say not when Kay or Lichfield says.

Besides how are they supposed to get those kids back now that they know they have the legal right in Costa Rica to leave. Its just gonna have riot after riot until one group of kids gets smart and poisons the staff Koolaid.
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Offline Anonymous

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2003, 06:05:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-27 09:04:00, METALGOD8 wrote:

 Latest wire is that Dundee is planning to re-open within 60 days.

MG8 :smokin: "


Where's that come from? You mean the AP or a WWASP press release or what?
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Offline Antigen

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2003, 06:11:00 PM »
Yeah, not ONLY that, but the kids that saw how the whole thing fell apart at Dundee may not be so easily cowed at TB in Jamaica or anywhere else.


A group mindfuck relies heavily on the illusion that half a dozen staff members have effective control over a couple hundred teenagers. The reality is that, if the kids pull together and rebell, staff doesn't stand a chance at controling them.

It's not just the fact of knowing that, technically, they have a right and ability to walk out. It's having witnessed it and experienced it that makes it a real posibility.

So these kids who have been transfered might just be the undoing of those other facilities. I would highly recomend WWASP shut down right now and send those kids home for everyone's sake. This could turn into a sort of Lord of the Flies thing real quick!

Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom.  But the
tumult soon subsides.  Time makes more converts than reason.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679433147/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Thomas Paine, Common Sense

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Offline Anonymous

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Pani Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2003, 08:47:00 AM »
Stupid is as stupid does.
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