Author Topic: tt  (Read 19573 times)

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2007, 06:26:26 PM »
///Anyone feel like going in as a "spy"??///

I could - but I don't see it as being very useful. Chances are they would flat out lie - and I am sure they would put on the standard dog and pony show.



For some reason I had thought your family was in IN - foolish of me I guess.  If it would help, I could talk to your sister about the danger involved with such a placement - about how they manipulate and mislead the parents.  I could explain how such programs commonly monitor all communication between parent and child making it impossible for the child to tell the parent what is happening, with out being at great risk of painful consequences.

If it gets to the point you know she will be going - if you think it inevitable - make her memorize the number for IN CPS - so she can call and report any abuse, if she happens to get a chance to use a phone.  Also, she will need to memorize the families numbers so she can call for help if she happens to run away - or if she ends up stuck there till 18, and then takes an "exit plan" - which would mean she is abandoned to the streets of some strange town with out resources.

If they intend to fly her - she needs to know - if she tells the flight attendant: "I do not want to board this plane. I do not want to be in the company of this person. I am being taken against my will" - they can not put her on that plane. They will probably call the cops. She needs to be willing to raise her voice and be very firm - willing to shout "I am being forced to board this plane against my will!"  They will not then let her on the flight.  The cops might try to talk her into boarding - that flight or another - but she needs to stick to her guns no matter how they try to intimidate her.

She needs to know jail is much safer and she will have far more rights in jail than in any program - if they happen to threaten her with jail. They might offer to take her to a shelter to call for assistance from family. How the cops respond is open to question - but I do know the Flight Attendants can not let a disruptive passenger on the flight - and I have been told by an escort that if the kid objects to boarding, they can not put them on the plane.

What they do is then threaten to drive the kid how ever many hours - and to make it miserable - but as you can imagine - this would open the door for many more opportunities to get help. Tell her - do not let them put her on the plane.
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2007, 06:39:16 PM »
Great advice by Buzzkill,just to add that do whatever it takes, I read years ago that Alexia Parks said even if the child makes a false accusation of rape against an escort, it would buy some time.

I have no sympathy towards an escort who is about to take a child to be abused, should he be falsely accused of rape.

The escorts say it is their job to get them there no matter what, well, the daughter and other people can try to stop it no matter what.

Kelly, not that it makes a difference but do you happen  to know what escort company has been hired for the escort?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 06:47:40 PM »
Some things are worth going to jail for. Even for a long time. This is one of them.

Tell her what they're going to do, show her what is likely to happen to her if she allows them to take her there, take her and run--across state lines, hide under and assumed name, abandon all your life baggage--home, job, friends, relationships and just go.

The world is full of cases where people didn't get out of some horrible situation and died because they didn't know when to run or, if they decided to run, they looked back and tried to go back and take their stuff. Empty your bank accounts completely, pack a couple of bags, charge your credit cards up to the limit with non-perishable foods, socks and underwear, ordinary clothes including some a size or two up if she's still growing, long-wearing shoes.

Don't forget a can opener and hot plate. If you can afford it, charge one of those converters that lets you plug in stuff and runs off your car battery. Take a bag of charcoal--parks frequently have charcoal grills.

You won't be able to use your credit cards or your ATM cards again without giving away your location, so fill them up with stuff you will need--including a resume or ten under assumed names with fictional qualifications of stuff you really can do. Only use xeroxed copies of these, on good paper, for job applications. Your computer access will be iffy.

Buy and fill a couple of gas cans to extend your driving range before you have to talk to anyone.

Pick a direction and do not stop until you are out of gas. Cross the Canadian border with her--you'll have to use real ID and say you're visiting friends on vacation. Pick a direction and keep driving. Sleep in the car, go potty in the woods. Sponge bath, wash in the car while your gas holds out. Use your water to wash beside the car. Take bleach and refill your big (at least 5 gal) water container at streams. Wash in stream water, cook and drink stream water you've treated with a few drops of bleach. If you let it sit in air, the chlorine evaporates off and you almost certainly won't get anything from the water. If you do, a doc in a box at your destination can cure it easy.

Do not stop and give *anybody* a chance to see you no matter what. They will track you as far as the border based on your real Driver's License (check--I think you can cross the border on vacation with just a DL still--if it would take even a couple of days to get a visa or clearance or something, stay in the US and see if Mexico lets you cross from the US over on just a DL, but Canada's way closer to you.)

Canada has the advantage that they might believe the kid's in danger if they extradite her and keep her regardless of the treaties. Mexico has the advantage that if you can by hook or by crook scrape up enough money, anybody can be bribed.

Do not, do not, do not ever use an ATM card or credit card ever again. Charge the cards up and fill up in the middle or side of town before you leave, not in the direction you flee.

Don't pick aliases that have your first or last initials--most people do that.

Work at hole-in-the wall off the books places, with illegal immigrants, and work hard as hell. Live among them. People aren't too likely to recognize you, and they have too much to lose if they turn you in. It's probably okay to tell a few illegal co-workers or neighbors a little if they ask too much. Not the name of the school, but that you're getting her away from child abuse. She'll need a job, too. If the illegals have their kids in school, it's probably safe for you to. It means the local authorities maybe are sympathetic to them and don't want higher officials coming in and making trouble.

Keep your mouth shut. Never contact anybody you used to know. Ever again. Not until after she's 21. Not anybody, not ever. Doing that one thing is what gets most people caught. Dear old so and so who would never narc you out WILL. Even if they don't, if they're the type not to narc you out, the authorities or a private detective will be tapping their phones and watching them--or will have turned their friends or neighbors--and will catch you anyway.

I mean it. Everybody has somebody who they think is "safe"--and they get caught over and over again that way. Even if good old Aunt Millie WAS safe--herself.

Resist temptation to break cover.

Don't work at what you do now. Preferably, leverage your skills sideways so you don't work at a job you EVER worked at. If you want out of minimum wage again, learn completely new skills.

Your neice may have to stay out of school and lie about her age. Or not. Canadians don't like homeschooling and it's often not legal there. In any case, drop her out as soon as it's legal or she looks old enough to the legal age for dropping out to lie. Let her study on her own and take the tests later, when she's grown and it's safe to take them under her own name.

You'll quite possibly go to jail for a long time when you get caught--which will hopefully be after she turns 21 and you can try to return to whatever normal life you once had.

The important thing is that you will have saved HER from being traumatized and having nightmares the rest of HER life--or whatever other horrible harms (including death) other kids have suffered in these places, as well as their nightmares for life. She will be able to go back to her real identity at 21 with no legal consequences for ever leaving it.

I said it before. Some things are worth going to jail for. This is one of them.

Screw self interest. She's only a kid, and she has the whole rest of her life ahead of her. Save her. Adults save imperilled children who can't save themselves. The world is a shitty place where often mass-murderers die of old age, comfortably in bed. Women get raped in dark alleys. Innocent people die cold and alone, of torture, under one madman or another, and frequently the Knight in Shining Armor never comes to the rescue.

Every adult's primary responsibility is cushioning children from that basic truth, keeping them in a world where the villain always loses at the end of the story until they're old enough to take up the burden themselves.

Sure, we squeeze what happiness we can out of the deal, but the world is a hard, dangerous, shitty place and we can't ever change that fact. We can find ourselves a little corner of happy and peace now and then if we're lucky, but that happy and peace is a thin layer of nail varnish over the dark truth.

We change it as much as we can, but it's never enough, and never will be. It's just a hell of a lot better than it would be if we gave in and gave up. You can't win, you can't break even, you can't even quit the game--but you can make it a hell of a lot less shitty if you try.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."

You've already probably had a little corner of happy and peace. Now she needs a shot at one. Besides, who knows? You might find a good new life, not be prosecuted, or get off light. If you don't do anything she's DEFINITELY going to get at least parts of herself permanently broken. You're the only knight she's got. If you don't ride to the rescue, no one will--not for her.

Be the adult you obviously are and save the kid.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2007, 06:50:59 PM »
As you can probably tell, I'm a mother.

Julie
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2007, 06:55:42 PM »
Kelly, does your sister plan on her having the escorts pick her up at your home? I ask because you did not say a date for your niece to be back home in Oregon for the planned escort.

Am I right to assume that Oregon law would apply if the runaway is from Oregon and fled Oregon and went to Washington?
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2007, 07:02:13 PM »
Julie, with the recently passed law, she would need passports to enter Canada. Same thing with Mexico. Mexico might have  required passports previous to the recently passed law.
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2007, 07:11:06 PM »
WSOF-FM.

Buzzkill, you get this station out in KY? These so called Christians have air time every Saturday at 8:45 AM.
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2007, 07:11:17 PM »
WSOF-FM.

Buzzkill, you get this station out in KY? These so called Christians have air time every Saturday at 8:45 AM.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2007, 08:03:55 PM »
Intesting Note if your niece lived in California

     "Every state designates children as minors until they reach a certain age: the age of majority.  In California, that age is 18. (Fam. Code 6502)

      A minor may not give legally binding consent in many situations. (Fam. Code 6700, 6701, 6920, 6921, 6925, 7050.)  Specifically, a minor may not:...

      However, in California a minor may:

              ...consent to his or her own mental health treatment or counseling on an outpatient basis or participate in a decision to consent to residential shelter services if he or she is at least 12 years olds, determined to be sufficiently mature to consent to residential shelter services, or is otherwise emanciapted. (Fam. Code 6920, 6921, 6924.) (Nolo's Cal. Law. 8th. Ed, 2004.)  

I would recommend blowing off the attorney, go to your local law library and pull up the family code section for Chidren/Minors for the state in which she lives.  Then look up the definition of "Residential Shelter" as it pertains to this section.
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2007, 08:04:53 PM »
Sorry, double posted by accident there.
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Offline thanks:-)

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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2007, 08:10:06 PM »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2007, 08:13:54 PM »
Michael

As long as you can show there is an applicaiton for a passport pending, you can still get into Mexico and Canada with a state ID and/or birth cert.  Because of the back log in passports, the State Department has extended the time.  I believe the Carribean is also listed.  Look at the State Department Passport Section for reference.  I don't have it off hand, otherwise I would have put it here.  Good luck.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2007, 08:24:29 PM »
Have heard from one escort they require the parents to give them a power of attorney, before they pick up the child.
Then when your sister gives up her daughter to them, they have the power of attorney over her.
When Children get in some of these programs, the problem is the programs have LEGAL custody, of your child. until age 18.
I'm sure someone else may know more.
Just a few things I have found during research.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2007, 08:29:17 PM »
Kelly

Get her itinerary, it may buy you some time for other people to come up with some other ideas.  

I had my kid in a program, not smart, but the last place I was going to send my child was some bible-toting, religous-fanatics, who live out in the middle of the woods, and drink pink punch when the shit hits the fan.  These guys are WAY more dangerious.

Do more homework, print it out and shove it in her face, sit on her and read it to her if you have to.  DWIT
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2007, 08:32:33 PM »
Just another thought, you could refuse to send her back, meaning they'd have to come get her, or you could take a small little trip and have it run over, delaying her even more, while you figure this out.  Even if the police become involved, you've at least stalled for a few days, maybe even a week, who knows.  Lots of alternatives out there.  Don't give up.  Someone will think of something, but you have to act on whatever is suggested that fits for you, your husband and your niece.  Let her participate in this as well.
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