Would anyone mind....

[Antigen]

If I did a little surgery on the Peninsula Village thread?

[sick of child torture girl]

I think is should stay the way it is. I see survivors mocked, the elan forum made into a pointless joke, people stop posting their stories
as they are just relentlessly challenged and called loosers for having them, nothing is done. Whyshould this be any different? becasue a bunch of regulars made themselves look like insensitive fools?

No let it stay where it is
Its a swell reminder of human nature. As seen through the ridiculous magnifying lesseninglens of the internet

[hanzomon4]

I get were sick is coming from but personally if it will help encourage survivors to post their stories and stick around I say go for it.

[psy]

It depends on what you mean by surgery.  as in forking the thread, sure.  as in deleting anything, hell no.

[Antigen]

Oh, I just wanted to fork it. It's a worthwhile conversation, but it sort of overwhelmed the one that was going on prior. I'm having second thoughts, though. Looking through it, it's really hard to make the call sometimes and, well, I can't see any way to do it and retain continuity.

WNF, please register a username and pm me or email to [email protected]

[sick of child torture girl]

I get were sick is coming from but personally if it will help encourage survivors to post their stories and stick around I say go for it.

I agree, but then only if the ELan forum is reorganized if you ever want to see a forum that stops people from posting...

or it aint fair  
hmm so my abreviation is sick, eh? do i like that? Perhaps i should change it to adorable* sick of child torture girl. Or just get real massochistic and become fat and ugly sick of chid torture girl?Perhpaps Sprinkes.

[psy]

Oh, I just wanted to fork it. It's a worthwhile conversation, but it sort of overwhelmed the one that was going on prior. I'm having second thoughts, though. Looking through it, it's really hard to make the call sometimes and, well, I can't see any way to do it and retain continuity.

WNF, please register a username and pm me or email to [email protected]

I doubt she will register a username.  She never PMed me or anybody else who was trying to get in contact with her, even before this shit happened.  That is what makes me think she is either plant or a troll.  Of course, as i stated earlier, she might just be completely fucking bat-shit crazy.

[Antigen]

WNF, I really dislike talking about you in the third person... so I won't.

Completely batshit? Ok, I guess maybe, but so what? I can remember thinking and acting just like this at times. And so many people have told me over the years how completely bat shit I am for doing things my weird way here. I don't have a problem with that. Really. Maybe I am completely bat shit or maybe I'm onto something that I can't quite explain yet, if ever.

If somebody's mimicking you, please register a name to stop that. If not, please just slow down! This site has been around for years, it's not going anywhere and you'll never run out of a growing supply of program vets to hash things out with.

[Rachael]

Yeah, if the intention was to delete anything, I'd really have to disagree. So far on fornits I've been offended, insulted and hurt many times and yet I'm still here. I was even once contacted by a staff member from my time in "the program" maurading as a survivor seriously looking to go out on a date with me. That scared the shit out of me - one of my abusers trying to "get with me" - and I'm sure did more damage than anything WANF has just experienced. More than that, the recent episode with the Who was an example where someone else was obviously being mocked over real explicit "sexual harassment" and rape even. If that wasn't enough for action/deletion, than this small flamewar isn't.

WANF is certainly a very confused, messed up person at the moment - no offense, I was for a very long time myself. And it sucks that she's getting a hard time at the moment, but no special treatment... none of us got it.

I don't like censorship in any form (I'll say cunt if I like to), but I detest selective censorship, even if for a plausibly good reason.



Just my two cents...


Rachael

[Anonymous]

Racheal, half of what you read wasnt her, it was someone pretending to be her, PARODYING her. She is the softspoken and nice one. The other was horrible, crude & threatening. It was etiher a pro- abuser or more sadly, a regular annoyed by her putting her in her place.

If the idea to split the thread is to respect her as that was done for Program Survivor (am I a looser for knowing this history?-yes. I think the answer is yes)
then please do so..i thought u were doing it to "protect" the thread from her which would have been yet another insult on top of everything

[Anonymous]

The people who have deemed her crazy should start an online consultation psychiatric firm, you can diagnose people online from all over the world, you can make millions!  :roll:

Who are any of you to decide what is appropriate way to grieve long term abuse, and what is not? People deal with shit in their own ways. If her posting a lot on ONE thread does it for her, great, that should be seen as a victory and helpful solution for a fellow program survivor.

Instead the regulars pile on top of her, and then end up using her issue of sexual harassment to torment her in an attempt to get her to leave or shut up or something, or maybe just feel bad? I don't understand their motives at all. If you believe she is crazy, like you think, then why would you be offended by what she is saying? You are making no sense guys!

The irony of it is that Niles, psy and I am sure some of those guests also use this forum to post random shit, rant and rave about OFF topic subjects ALL THE TIME. I read through the entire PV thread several times, and everything WANF says is very much relevant to her program experience.

So why are people like Niles so offended by it? I don't get it? You can rant and rave about animal rights people, and she can't talk about the program she was imprisoned at for two years? Something is wrong with that picture!


I think that it's tempting to say leave the thread as it is, if only to show the rest of us we better watch our step and not piss off the high post uber online egos who think they run this place and have the right to deem anyone crazy. Or worse that we survivors need their help in telling our stories or getting change done. The reality is we could do without the bystanders who threaten to kill our parents, threatening posts that get negative attention, and most importantly, not recreating group and dog piling on survivors for whatever reason.

So maybe you should leave it up and show everyone just how fucked up this forum can be?

Of course I am going to say take the shit down. If it makes someone uncomfortable and uneasy that it is posted, I would take it down. I am not an idealist or ideologist who will hurt people to keep from changing my political beliefs. Freedom of speech is a political argument, we are talking about a real live breathing person with feelings who is hurt.

I've been hurt on this forum too like everyone else. I didn't ask to have my posts taken down. But just because I never asked doesn't mean I can't have sympathy for someone else who does. If someone was posting pages of the word "cunt" at me I would be pretty offended to.

Leave it up, show the world how fucked up we all are. Or take it down and save a survivor some heartache and worry. But don't leave it up because of some forum policy or strict belief in some political scheme that allows people to freely hurt each other. I hate how people turn small personal issues into worldwide political arguments like "freedom of speech". This shit isn't about that, this is about programs and survivors and their parents and trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and how to stop the brainwashing and torture. Oh no wait, it's not.

[nimdA]

I was thinking that maybe a split in the thread might be useful, but the more I think about it the more I don't want it. I'm somehow not surprised that someone is masquerading as WANF. It has happened to me before, and no doubt it will happen to others.

This is why I don't want the PV thread split:

1) People ought to know better than to go back and forth with some in the first place.

- The guest, above, makes a good point that WANF appears to be getting something out of it. Her exact opinions and feelings on sexual harrassment are hers to have. What good it does for people to attempt to debate her beliefs on the PV thread is beyond me.

2) Better for worst the PV thread is the way it is. I see no point in trying to attempt to undo what could have been prevented by a bit of simple self control on the part of all of us.  Let it stand as a reminder to others about the need to pick and choose our battles.

- A battle with WANF serves absolutely no purpose at this point in time. She feels the way she does, and I doubt the internet is going to change her feelings. Better to let time and the experience of life take care of that rather than trying to jam it down her throat via the internet. You never know some of you might find yourself thinking more like she does one day.


I have some more thoughts on this matter, but I believe it comes down to people just needing to know when to get involved and when not to. I'll be the first to say that WANF confuses the hell out of me in even her most mundane posts. Yet her basic message about the lack of any redeeming features found at PV rings out loudly.


A bit of a reminder.. Take Exhausted.. when she first showed up she was the biggest sucker ever for internet trolling and fighting with people all over fornits thinking she had to defend herself. Now you are hard pressed to to find decent examples of Exhausted getting involved with flame wars.

I believe the same will hold true with WANF as soon as she comes to understand the dynamics of fornits and the internet as a whole.

Basically lads back up off her.. Let her figure it out on her own.

[Anonymous]

The people who have deemed her crazy should start an online consultation psychiatric firm, you can diagnose people online from all over the world, you can make millions!  :roll:

Who are any of you to decide what is appropriate way to grieve long term abuse, and what is not? People deal with shit in their own ways. If her posting a lot on ONE thread does it for her, great, that should be seen as a victory and helpful solution for a fellow program survivor.

Instead the regulars pile on top of her, and then end up using her issue of sexual harassment to torment her in an attempt to get her to leave or shut up or something, or maybe just feel bad? I don't understand their motives at all. If you believe she is crazy, like you think, then why would you be offended by what she is saying? You are making no sense guys!

The irony of it is that Niles, psy and I am sure some of those guests also use this forum to post random shit, rant and rave about OFF topic subjects ALL THE TIME. I read through the entire PV thread several times, and everything WANF says is very much relevant to her program experience.

So why are people like Niles so offended by it? I don't get it? You can rant and rave about animal rights people, and she can't talk about the program she was imprisoned at for two years? Something is wrong with that picture!


I think that it's tempting to say leave the thread as it is, if only to show the rest of us we better watch our step and not piss off the high post uber online egos who think they run this place and have the right to deem anyone crazy. Or worse that we survivors need their help in telling our stories or getting change done. The reality is we could do without the bystanders who threaten to kill our parents, threatening posts that get negative attention, and most importantly, not recreating group and dog piling on survivors for whatever reason.

So maybe you should leave it up and show everyone just how fucked up this forum can be?

Of course I am going to say take the shit down. If it makes someone uncomfortable and uneasy that it is posted, I would take it down. I am not an idealist or ideologist who will hurt people to keep from changing my political beliefs. Freedom of speech is a political argument, we are talking about a real live breathing person with feelings who is hurt.

I've been hurt on this forum too like everyone else. I didn't ask to have my posts taken down. But just because I never asked doesn't mean I can't have sympathy for someone else who does. If someone was posting pages of the word "cunt" at me I would be pretty offended to.

Leave it up, show the world how fucked up we all are. Or take it down and save a survivor some heartache and worry. But don't leave it up because of some forum policy or strict belief in some political scheme that allows people to freely hurt each other. I hate how people turn small personal issues into worldwide political arguments like "freedom of speech". This shit isn't about that, this is about programs and survivors and their parents and trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and how to stop the brainwashing and torture. Oh no wait, it's not.

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:
im unimpressed by the bs about freedom of speech too. Its not like this forum doesnt have censorship- no ads, no spam, u can't type in "you should" it becomes "I want u to." So there are allready "impurities". I hate ideologists when the "purity" of the ideology becomes more important then its real life impact on human beings. Like maybe "terror" is bad..but if you have to invade Iraq and kill 100s of thousands ya comprimise

Its really not about "freedom of speach anyway The idea that taking down a thread is the equvelent of congress passing an edict is pretty grandios. This is an INTERNET forum. Making this about "freedom of speach" is ludicous as freedom of speech laws & constituional principles dont apply here. I guarantee you can get outright banned from any forum and the aclu isnt gonna be suing the host. Those laws relate to govt restrictions and very very very very rarely MASSIVE MASS media outlets.

Yeah the whole thing was sad. Like a sorry yet impotant internet version of the film Dogville. Oh well its human nature everyone has an off day. Well,... I hope its just a day

[ZenAgent]

Some missed it, I did, but WANF wants to keep the PV thread high, hoping people find it on search engines.  I've PM'd her on CAFETY, suggesting that probably won't do it.  

It seems some of her defenders are worse than her attackers, with more of an interest in the thread itself than WANF.  I wonder why?

I've yanked PV's tail hard recently, well outside of Fornits.  I guess it's my fault that they find it easiest to go at me here.  Can there be any doubt a program that would go to these lengths to cover it's ass would apply undue restraint to a child outside of the three requirements for a restraint, or keep them doped so they'll stay docile and quiet?

WANF is fine.  She'll be better knowing she doesn't have to keep constantly adding to the thread to keep it at the top, it's wearing her out.  She's fighting just to answer.

[Deborah]

This is a control issue, and therefore, pushes lots of people's buttons because it's a program method.
WANF wants to control what others say that offends her. Others want to control her rants and opinions. Details are irrelevant.

Fact: You can't and never will be able to control what other people think, say, or do; even if you stick them in a warehouse and hold them incommunicado.

-If you want to control your posts on Fornits, then register a user name. At any time you wish, you can delete the account completely or delete individual posts.

-If you are offended, you have 3 choices. Argue, leave, or ignore and carry on. It's not Ginger's role to come in and rescue any poster who continues to argue with another poster that offends him/her. She ain't the mamma and this ain't no program. Everyone has the freedom to leave at any time. No one is forced to read.

-I think it would be useful to have this disclaimer posted somewhere for new people, like at the top of the page have a link that says 'New members read before posting' or some such. Maybe next to FAQ. Give a brief description of how to register and the pros of doing so. Registering a user name doesn't expose your identity. You're just as anonymous as "Guest". But, YOU will have the benefit of controlling YOUR posts. Otherwise, what's posted stays.
It's addressed in FAQ, but people may not read that before posting, and it could be more specific about the pros.

And what is this crap about Ginger deleting TSWs posts? He was registered and therefore could delete them himself.