ASR's Violations of Massachusetts Education Law

[RobertBruce]

Or ASR needs to stop pretending they have less than 30% of their population being classified as special needs and get the proper license.

Any way you look at this Cindy, ASR has been trying to get away with something. Dont feel too bad, it worked up until now.

[Troll Control]

I just think it's funny that he was at it all day and all night and all day again trying to get out of the fact that ASR is classified by the state as a Special Education School and that the state says that, although this is ASR's legal classification, they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.

It's interesting to note that not even the usual pro-ASR parents will throw their lot in with this nutbag.  He's all alone on this crazy rant...

[Deborah]

More or less, it's the state's way of saying "This is what this place represented itself to us to be, but we can't approve it because they don't meet muster."

That should be enough for any parent to keep away...

Exactly, they are a hybrid school inbetween a private boarding school and a school that provides therapy.  The state doesnt have a category for them, they are not approved as a special education school so the regulations do not apply.
The state nneds to get thier butt in gear and define the regulations for TBS's

Who boy,
Hybrid school my arse. They, like HLA and all the rest, are first and foremost, 'treatment' facilities, with an secondary academic component, because the latter is required by law. You know this, as you stated that the academics provided at ASR weren't important to you.
The state already has regs for residential treatment facilities. Those regs are just fine, if anything, too lax.
Now, why don't you actually read through them and post the ones you don't think ASR would like, err, that wouldn't "add value" to ASRs 'treatment' facility.

[TheWho]

I just think it's funny that he was at it all day and all night and all day again trying to get out of the fact that ASR is classified by the state as a Special Education School and that the state says that, although this is ASR's legal classification, they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.

It's interesting to note that not even the usual pro-ASR parents will throw their lot in with this nutbag.  He's all alone on this crazy rant...

The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day..
This is why many posters here on fornits have no credibility because all the statements made here have no facts behind them.  We have concluded that ASR is a hybrid school that doesn’t totally meet the requirements of a private boarding school, mental facility, RTC, special ed school.  It meets some of each and should be classified as a TBS but the classification doesn’t exist....the state has dropped the ball on this...the school is moving forward and graduating students every year, no reason they should stop and wait for the state.
If the school was in violation they would have done something over the past 10 years, ya think?

Many Parents wont want their kids attending a state run facility anyway, the quality of service just isn’t there.  Anyone who has visited a state run facility knows this.

[Troll Control]

TheWho said:

The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.. "

First, 'the rest of us' you mention refers to you and you alone.  There's nobody else here, just you.  Haven't you noticed that nobody else supports your crazy opinions?

Second, Massachusetts public schools, even the worst of the worst, retain, as required by law, fully licensed and credentialed teachers while ASR, in contrast, retains exactly zero licensed, credentialed teachers, which in almost every single case (if not all) are cross-utilized to boot.

Which part don't you understand?  I'll be happy to explain again if you have trouble grasping it:  Worst of worst public schools - fully licensed teaching staff;  ASR - zero licensed teachers.  It's a cut and dried issue.

[TheWho]

TheWho said:

The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.. "

First, 'the rest of us' you mention refers to you and you alone.  There's nobody else here, just you.  Haven't you noticed that nobody else supports your crazy opinions?

Second, Massachusetts public schools, even the worst of the worst, retain, as required by law, fully licensed and credentialed teachers while ASR, in contrast, retains exactly zero licensed, credentialed teachers, which in almost every single case (if not all) are cross-utilized to boot.

Which part don't you understand?  I'll be happy to explain again if you have trouble grasping it:  Worst of worst public schools - fully licensed teaching staff;  ASR - zero licensed teachers.  It's a cut and dried issue.

Well, that’s just not true.  We have some pretty bad schools in our state that you would approve of on paper and I am sure you would send your children to.  Everybody is licensed from the janitor on up, but the kids enter an unsafe environment everyday, get a crappy education, low percentage of kids graduate, the food is unhealthy and the teachers (who are fully licensed) are trying to have sex with the students some have drug problems.... get the picture?

On the other hand ASR has the reputation of having 100% of the kids attend the college of their choice, the teachers don’t have sex with the students, extremely low teacher to student ratio...safe environment…..should I continue?

So you would choose the state run facilities over the private boarding schools for your child?  Having state oversight isnt a good thing, once they get their claws into stuff it turns bad and corrupt, teachers get tenure whether they are effective or not, they cant get fired unless they resort to having sex with a student!!  Its nuts that you see this as a better choice....

[Troll Control]

TheWho said:

The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.. "

First, 'the rest of us' you mention refers to you and you alone.  There's nobody else here, just you.  Haven't you noticed that nobody else supports your crazy opinions?

Second, Massachusetts public schools, even the worst of the worst, retain, as required by law, fully licensed and credentialed teachers while ASR, in contrast, retains exactly zero licensed, credentialed teachers, which in almost every single case (if not all) are cross-utilized to boot.

Which part don't you understand?  I'll be happy to explain again if you have trouble grasping it:  Worst of worst public schools - fully licensed teaching staff;  ASR - zero licensed teachers.  It's a cut and dried issue.

Well, that’s just not true.  We have some pretty bad schools in our state that you would approve of on paper and I am sure you would send your children to.  Everybody is licensed from the janitor on up, but the kids enter an unsafe environment everyday, get a crappy education, low percentage of kids graduate, the food is unhealthy and the teachers (who are fully licensed) are trying to have sex with the students some have drug problems.... get the picture?

Yep, got it.  ASR is just like the public schools, plus forced therapy by unlicensed staff, isolation, physical punishment and nobody watching out for the kids' welfare and minus any licensed, qualified teachers.  Roger that. :tup:

[TheWho]

Yep, got it. ASR is just like the public schools, plus forced therapy by unlicensed staff, isolation, physical punishment and nobody watching out for the kids' welfare and minus any licensed, qualified teachers. Roger that

You forgot, cross country skiing, white water rafting, swimming pool, weight gym, alternative food choices, low student teacher ratio, teachers who don’t have sex with the students, safe environment, no guns, no weapons, small community…should I continue?
I think most people (who have kids in the public school system) know where I am going with this.  The public school system just doesn’t measure up any more, its not safe and the kids are not learning anything.  It would be nuts to force a high level private boarding school to model themselves after this failed system…..

[Troll Control]

Sure, let's continue...Forced sexual confessions to eager, horny staff, uneducated minders, kids having sex during class, full staff turnover every year, mindless and mindnumbing LGATs, sleep deprivation, violent and disturbed kids, unlicesned, cross-utilized teachers, unlicesened, uneducated staff, physical punishment...  Shall I continue...?

[Anonymous]

Well, that’s just not true.

Obviously it is. ASR has no licensed teachers, this has been established and verified. Public schools do. Case closed.

We have some pretty bad schools in our state that you would approve of on paper and I am sure you would send your children to

Most people arent going to chose to send their kids to a bad school public or private. Being properly licensed though is a positive step in the right direction. ASR not being licensed is a huge red flag that youre too blind to see.

but the kids enter an unsafe environment everyday

Weve already established that a kid is safer from abuse in a public school than he is a TBS. There's no point in rehashing this data.

get a crappy education

Which in your mind is somehow worse then getting an education from unlicensed teachers and earns you a diploma which is worthless.

low percentage of kids graduate,

Who you seem to be missing the fact that according to the DoE none of the kids at ASR graduate. Thats 0%.

the food is unhealthy

Perhaps you missed the part in the article where the chef expressed his concern for how little food the kids were getting at ASR. Is this healthy?

and the teachers (who are fully licensed) are trying to have sex with the students

Youve mentioned this several times, Id be interested to know how often does it actually happen? Can you cite some kind of source?

some have drug problems

Dont most kids at TBS's have drug problems?

get the picture?

We do, the question now is do you?

On the other hand ASR has the reputation of having 100% of the kids attend the college of their choice,

This is actually a blatent lie and I'd like you to stop mentioning it.

http://www.swiftriver.com/acceptances.htm

If you look closely youll notice that many of the schools listed have astericks next to them. The meaning of them is given as,

(*indicates ASR graduate chose to attend):

So please, tell us. What does the lack of an asterisk indicate?

the teachers don’t have sex with the students

That youre aware of.

extremely low teacher to student ratio

Something thats prevalent in many public schools as well. Although Im sure its easier at ASR to accomplish. After all they'll apparently hire just about anybody so really it widens the candidates field a bit dont you think?

safe environment…..should I continue?

What makes you think its a safe enviornment? The only reports we have on here suggest otherwise.

So you would choose the state run facilities over the private boarding schools for your child?

Since no one but you has brought up state run facilities I'll leave this one to you.

Having state oversight isnt a good thing,

This doesn't agree with your earlier comments.

The schools feel they are doing a great job and probably are but it takes an outside force to get oversight and in the end it is good for the kids!!!

Why the sudden change of heart Who?

once they get their claws into stuff it turns bad and corrupt,

What "stuff"? How do they turn it bad and corrupt?

teachers get tenure whether they are effective or not, they cant get fired unless they resort to having sex with a student!!

Okay now youre just being ridiculus. State oversight and regulation in no way forces private schools to grant teachers tenure. Nor does it control the firing policy. These are still private schools. Stay with the facts or stop talking.

Its nuts that you see this as a better choice....

Because as has already been established it makes the schools safer for the kids.

I wonder if the reason you dont want it is because secretly you want to hurt these kids. Is that it? Either way too many people are focused on this now. ASR is soon to have licensure forced upon them. Sorry if this makes you mad but you better get used to it. Ha ha ha.

[TheWho]

So it looks like we have come full circle, Again.  It is clear the state needs to determine what regulations apply to ASR.  What we know is they are classified as a "Specialty school"  but they are not approved as a special education school so the regulations do not apply until after approval, so they are in limbo.

Until the state defines where ASR fits within their system or breaks out a new category for TBS's I don’t see this getting resolved.  So the starting point seems to be with the state.  

ASR is tired of trying to get the state off their duffs and do something,  maybe a few letters from the public could help.

[Troll Control]

I agree.  It's settled.  Energy should be focused on lobbying the state agencies to enforce their regulations in regard to ASR.  Let's work that contact list and get it going.

It is amusing to watch TheWho get totally worn down through his self-flagellation though.  That's worth something.

But, yes, some facts have been established.  

1.  ASR is classified by the state.  They are classified as a "Special Education School".

2.  ASR does not employ any licensed teachers nor any special educators, so they remain "unapproved" by the state.

3.  ASR does not appear in the Mohawk Regional School District's comprehensive review for 2007 which indicates their "partnership" with the district has ended in 2007.

4.  ASR remains unaccredited and is legally barred by the state from issuing state sanctioned diplomas.

These appear to be the only objectively verifiable facts and the rest of the back-and-forth is just raw speculation.

As was stated, these are the objectively verifiable facts.  The state's motivation to do or not do things, the "hybrid" argument, etc., is all just speculation.  The facts above are the only ones that are verifiable and not someone's opinion.

What AnonWho just posted is simply more of his opinions, but the facts are listed in the quoted post above.

Let's just stick with facts to keep the dialogue real - nobody needs phonied-up information and opinions that don't bear out with the facts.

Let's be very clear.  AnonWho is stating ASR is classified as a "specialty school" but no such category exists in Mass, and it is clear on the DoE website that ASR is in fact classified as a Special Education School, not a "specialty school".  

The reason they are an Unapproved Special Education School is not because of some confusion about their role, it's because they don't meet the minimum standards under state law for approval.

Any assertion otherwise is disingenuous and not factual.

[TheWho]

The reason they are an Unapproved Special Education School is not because of some confusion about their role, it's because they don't meet the minimum standards under state law for approval.

of course they don’t...that is the point.  They don’t meet the standards because they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts.  They are a TBS and they don’t have a category for TBS (check their drop down menu selections) so they stick them under "Special ed school", but if you look at the requirements for a special education school they don’t fit a TBS.  They are a hybrid and have been operating as such for a decade.  They don’t meet any existing standards (in full) for any one category, but meet the standards of many different categories.

The state needs to draw up requirements for Therapeutic Boarding schools, but until then schools like ASR will have to live in between categories.
Anonwho

[Troll Control]

AnonWho wrote:
"...they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts.

This is, in point of fact, a lie.

Here's the link to ASR's profile in the list of DoE classified Special Education Schools:

http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588

It's true there is no category of "TBS" because the law does not recognize such a thing.  The fact is, legally ASR is Spec Ed.

[RobertBruce]

Uh oh Cindy, I guess that whole hybrid idea just went out the window.

In doing some reading I came across the regs for special education programs.

I found this particular listing to be interesting:

(b) Mail and Telephone. Written and telephone communication shall not be prohibited. It shall be each student's right to open and send his/her own mail unread by staff, except in accordance with the following circumstances:

1. Such restrictions or censorship must be limited to that which is necessary to achieve the therapeutic purpose outlined in the student's IEP.

2. Mail that is restricted or censored must be returned to the sender with reasons therefore.

3. Staff may open and inspect student's mail for contraband only in the presence of the student.

4. The school shall make available a telephone (pay or free) to students.

5. Telephone communication may not be restricted or monitored unless there are specific therapeutic reasons justifying such limitations.

a. Such therapeutic reasons must be clearly stated in the student's IEP and must be no greater than necessary to achieve the therapeutic purpose.

b. If phone conversations are monitored, the parties to the conversation must be informed.

c. There must be no restrictions or monitoring of conversations between a student and his/her attorney, social worker or clergy person.

I wonder if ASR has been violating these regs?