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Author Topic: Tough Lessons: Stephanie Kraft on ASR  (Read 7200 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Tough Lessons: Stephanie Kraft on ASR
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2007, 03:20:12 PM »
The readers should keep in mind that the previous article is almost 10 years old.  They dont even work to the same model anymore.
 ::hatter::
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Offline Anonymous

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Tough Lessons: Stephanie Kraft on ASR
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2007, 12:42:39 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
okay this is why people here lose credibility.  this article came out in  1999.  none of the same staff work for ASR and none of the practices, such as LifeSteps, still exist.  seems like people hold this up as the golden goose which should spell the end of ASR yet it holds no water considering the changes that have occured inthe last few years.  you also keep bringing up old staff like Rudy Benz, who has been gone for 4 years.   so if you have something recent to complain about show it here and maybe others will listen to you.  the whole emotional growth model has been scrapped for a more clinical approach.

What would that be?  Please cite some long term, clinical, peer reviewed studies to back up that preposterous claim.


Quote
so if you have something recent to complain about show it here and maybe others will listen to you.



Yep, the kid who died at Aspen Youth Camp.  Got a smart comeback for that, little man?


AB (too fucking lazy to sign in)
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Offline TheWho

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Tough Lessons: Stephanie Kraft on ASR
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2007, 08:19:16 AM »
Quote
What would that be? Please cite some long term, clinical, peer reviewed studies to back up that preposterous claim.

If you would like to wait around for long term studies be my guest.  But you need to wait until we are all older, thus the term “Long term studiesâ€
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2007, 10:23:36 AM »
Wow, it's Who again with the crap analogies. Here, let's try this one instead:

The people in 1850 who bought the traveling salesman's purple elixir lost their money and got worse. The people who got a hold of an M. D. got better or stabilized.
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Offline TheWho

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Tough Lessons: Stephanie Kraft on ASR
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2007, 10:32:05 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wow, it's Who again with the crap analogies. Here, let's try this one instead:

The people in 1850 who bought the traveling salesman's purple elixir lost their money and got worse. The people who got a hold of an M. D. got better or stabilized.


so we can conclude that is best to seek the opinion of professionals and others who have experience.
Waiting for long term studies and doing nothing wont help anyone in the present.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2007, 12:36:25 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
What would that be? Please cite some long term, clinical, peer reviewed studies to back up that preposterous claim.

If you would like to wait around for long term studies be my guest.  But you need to wait until we are all older, thus the term “Long term studiesâ€
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2007, 01:15:02 PM »
Anne Bonney wrote:
Quote
Bullshit. They've had plenty of time. These places have been around for what, 40 or so years now?


Well there you have it.  They have both been around for several decades and both have proven to be highly effective (no long terms studies which prove negative results for the majority of the population) although like penicillin it doesnt work for everyone, but that is no reason to discontinue their usage.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2007, 01:23:24 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Anne Bonney wrote:
Quote
Bullshit. They've had plenty of time. These places have been around for what, 40 or so years now?

Well there you have it.  They have both been around for several decades and both have proven to be highly effective (no long terms studies which prove negative results for the majority of the population) although like penicillin it doesnt work for everyone, but that is no reason to discontinue their usage.



No, it hasn't been proven. Ever.  In fact, the only studies that were done on boot camps showed it made kids worse (go digging through and find the link I posted the first time we went round and round about this.  I ain't doing your work for you) and even just the stats of AA (of which the vast majority of TBSs use) show that at BEST they have a 5% success rate.  That's AA's own study btw.  Guess what the rate for spontaneous remission (quitting on your own) is?  5%.

Pretty poor record.
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2007, 01:29:33 PM »
::lala::  Don't talk to it Anne   ::lala::
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2007, 01:37:28 PM »
You're right, I'll stop.  It's about time to hit the beach anyway.

 8-)
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2007, 03:08:35 PM »
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Anne Bonney wrote:
Quote
Bullshit. They've had plenty of time. These places have been around for what, 40 or so years now?

Well there you have it.  They have both been around for several decades and both have proven to be highly effective (no long terms studies which prove negative results for the majority of the population) although like penicillin it doesnt work for everyone, but that is no reason to discontinue their usage.


No, it hasn't been proven. Ever.  In fact, the only studies that were done on boot camps showed it made kids worse (go digging through and find the link I posted the first time we went round and round about this.  I ain't doing your work for you) and even just the stats of AA (of which the vast majority of TBSs use) show that at BEST they have a 5% success rate.  That's AA's own study btw.  Guess what the rate for spontaneous remission (quitting on your own) is?  5%.

Pretty poor record.


Sorry, I am not talking boot camp or AA.  TBS was the topic and if you speak to the professionals in the area or parents who had children attend these schools you will see that the success rate is high.
But we could go back and forth on this for ever until they have a study done in this area.
Until then we have to do the best we can with talking to the people who know the industry best.

This is as good as any place to stop, have a good time at the beach.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2007, 04:27:06 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry, I am not talking boot camp or AA.  TBS was the topic and if you speak to the professionals in the area or parents who had children attend these schools you will see that the success rate is high.

From the Department of Pulled That Right Out of My Ass because I have absolutely zero facts to back up my flights of fancy.

Cite your fucking sources moron!


Quote
But we could go back and forth on this for ever until they have a study done in this area.
Until then we have to do the best we can with talking to the people who know the industry best.


And that does NOT include you seeing as you've never been locked away in one of them.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2007, 05:05:11 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry, I am not talking boot camp or AA.  TBS was the topic and if you speak to the professionals in the area or parents who had children attend these schools you will see that the success rate is high.

From the Department of Pulled That Right Out of My Ass because I have absolutely zero facts to back up my flights of fancy.

Cite your fucking sources moron!


Quote
But we could go back and forth on this for ever until they have a study done in this area.
Until then we have to do the best we can with talking to the people who know the industry best.

And that does NOT include you seeing as you've never been locked away in one of them.


I am speaking merely from first hand experience and speaking with people who have had children attend various TBS’s.  No I have never been "locked away" in a TBS and neither has anyone I have ever spoken to.  I do know that these types of facilities exist by what I have read here on fornits but I wouldn’t send my daughter to a lock down facility.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2007, 05:37:54 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I am speaking merely from first hand experience and speaking with people who have had children attend various TBS’s.  No I have never been "locked away" in a TBS and neither has anyone I have ever spoken to.  I do know that these types of facilities exist by what I have read here on fornits but I wouldn’t send my daughter to a lock down facility.

just exactly what first hand esperience might that  be, huh? don't tell us you went to a TBS, ha ha!  Or maybe you just don't like to call it that, huh?
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2007, 06:15:20 PM »
Hey who, seems you can change your picture, but you havent answered my question as to why it says yuppie sellout.
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