Academy at Swift River - Split from TTI

[psy]

psy wrote:

bla bla bla.. You think these places practice positive re-enforcement!??!?!

I realize every place is different and I cannot speak to where you attended but on one of my visits to ASR we headed back to my daughters room, which was quite nice, she shared it with three other girls, they had their own bath.  There was a table in the middle and she pulled out some dominos and we played, shot the breeze while waiting to join the other kids after dinner for a movie (I think they showed a movie every Sunday night).  Anyway I noticed the bed next to my daughters was covered with sticky notes and I kind of walked over and they all said little words of encouragement, like “Good luck!!”, Know you can do it” etc.  I asked my daughter what that was all about and she said her room mate had a history exam the next day (which was oral) and she had always be afraid of being called upon in school so this was a milestone for her to stand up in front of class.  The notes were from students as well as staff members.  They really cared for each other there and the staff/ counselors were always supportive as each child met and tackled each challenge.

With you reporting to the staff... do you really expect them to be open and honest about how they feel about program...  Please.  I remember parent visits. You had to be positive if you didn't want to get consequences.. I would just love that question: how do you like it here..  I understand Jimmy here loves it.  What's your favorite part of program.  You HAD to bullshit.  You couldn't trust anybody.

Say if your daughter had said something to you about what might have actually been happening...  and it shocked you.  Provided she was convincing enough for you to get you to question the official line of thought, where would you have gone to confirm the allegation?  Well you would probably have gone to staff directly, who would have told you it was a manipulation, laughed at it, told you  "well that's a good one.. hahaha".. and then when you leave, your daughter would have gotten in some serious shit...  Eventually, they might even be able to convince her that what she saw as "abusive" really wasn't.  After all, she was a master manipulator.  What's black is white if you believe hard enough.  YOU DON'T LEAVE unless you believe it.  

How would your daughter know not to report? Well she might have tried with you, had you dismiss it as "manipulative" and given up on turning to you for support.  When you go to your own parent, asking for help, and they turn you down, who else do you have to turn to.  Nobody.  Hope dies.

But what if she never tried?  She might have seen what happend to others who tried (or was warned)... or she might have not trusted you enough in the first place (after all, you sent her there, and staff emphasize over and over that parents have full knowledge of what goes on(i, for one, know they don't)).

Come on... When you control communication you can pretty much portray either party in whatever light you want.  If you really want to make up with your daughter, ask her to tell her story of what happend to her.  And don't say "that's absurd, or, you're exaggerating", or you'll lose her.

[RobertBruce]

You place a child into a safe environment

No evidence to show TBS's are safe.

and provide them with therapy

Or force therapy on them.

most children will eventually work on their issues and grow.

Most children? Then why isnt there a single independent study showing these places do anything they claim to do?

I agree, that if you dig your heels in for 16 months you are not going to benefit from the stay there.

Or if youre abused you are not going to benefit from the stay their either.

[TheWho]

psy wrote:

With you reporting to the staff... do you really expect them to be open and honest about how they feel about program... Please. I remember parent visits. You had to be positive if you didn't want to get consequences.. I would just love that question: how do you like it here.. I understand Jimmy here loves it. What's your favorite part of program. You HAD to bullshit. You couldn't trust anybody.

Say if your daughter had said something to you about what might have actually been happening... and it shocked you. Provided she was convincing enough for you to get you to question the official line of thought, where would you have gone to confirm the allegation? Well you would probably have gone to staff directly, who would have told you it was a manipulation, laughed at it, told you "well that's a good one.. hahaha".. and then when you leave, your daughter would have gotten in some serious shit... Eventually, they might even be able to convince her that what she saw as "abusive" really wasn't. After all, she was a master manipulator. What's black is white if you believe hard enough. YOU DON'T LEAVE unless you believe it.

How would your daughter know not to report? Well she might have tried with you, had you dismiss it as "manipulative" and given up on turning to you for support. When you go to your own parent, asking for help, and they turn you down, who else do you have to turn to. Nobody. Hope dies.

But what if she never tried? She might have seen what happend to others who tried (or was warned)... or she might have not trusted you enough in the first place (after all, you sent her there, and staff emphasize over and over that parents have full knowledge of what goes on(i, for one, know they don't)).

Come on... When you control communication you can pretty much portray either party in whatever light you want. If you really want to make up with your daughter, ask her to tell her story of what happend to her. And don't say "that's absurd, or, you're exaggerating", or you'll lose her.

At the place you went to that might have been the case, psy,but it just wasn’t like that at ASR.  I am sure if a parent was told by their child that they were beating me  or haven’t been fed in a week there would be some back lash and the school wouldn’t be happy with the kids making up stories like that.  But if the kid was that unhappy to the level they needed to tell stories to that degree they would probably just leave anyway walk out or leave the program.
I asked my daughter if she thought ASR was abusive and she “no”.  Where there parts you thought were bordering on abusive and she said “no”.  I asked her if she could go back to the day she started and change one thing about ASR what would it be.  She thought for a moment and finally said the phone calls.  We only got to talk 20 minutes a week or twice a week but she wished it could have been longer.  Did people listen in to their calls?  No, there was a counselor present when the kids were calling home.  I actually used the phones they used and it was in an open area there was a table which was partitioned off so 4 to six kids could talk at once.  The counselor was in the room to intervene in case any major conflicts broke out or the child needed support.  We talk about her time at ASR periodically, I may bring it up from time to time based on things I hear on fornits and she brings it up if she hears from a friend in her old peer group.  So the topic isn’t avoided and is far from a sore or uncomfortable subject for us.

[Troll Control]

Did people listen in to their calls? No, there was a counselor present when the kids were calling home.

In common terms this is called "monitored contact," quite obviously "listening in"; your statement is self-contradicting. If children were not allowed to use the phone for unmonitored contact, it is a violation of their right to report abuse unfettered. Not to mention that the law requires a free line for any student to use at any time for the purpose of reporting abuse.  

How could you possibly know anyway if there were a station out of the room dedicated to monitoring every call, as in the places where I worked?  Answer:  you couldn't.  Just more speculation placed out as fact...

[TheWho]

Did people listen in to their calls? No, there was a counselor present when the kids were calling home.

In common terms this is called "monitored contact," quite obviously "listening in"; your statement is self-contradicting. If children were not allowed to use the phone for unmonitored contact, it is a violation of their right to report abuse unfettered. Not to mention that the law requires a free line for any student to use at any time for the purpose of reporting abuse.  

How could you possibly know anyway if there were a station out of the room dedicated to monitoring every call, as in the places where I worked?  Answer:  you couldn't.  Just more speculation placed out as fact...

There were situations where kids were working out problems with family members and the child could get hurt or need support.  The area wasn’t like a phone booth, it was set up like some of the testing areas they would have in some schools where you couldn’t see the person across from you and there was a partition in between each child and a phone for each section.  So the kids could talk without hearing each other.  I would consider it private (When I was speaking on the phone there were people in the room and I felt they couldn’t hear me.)  She said there was a counselor in the room doing paper work or what ever, but not sitting next to you.  He was there in case he was needed.

I guess it is possible the phones were wire tapped but that could occur or be applied anywhere.  When I went in to use the phone the door was not locked.  There might have been other phones in other areas of the school, I didn’t ask.

Not to mention that the law requires a free line for any student to use at any time for the purpose of reporting abuse

I am not saying they do or do not meet this requirement, as you stated.  With the door being unlocked this may cover the requirement, though, and it is off of a general area, so kids could get to it if needed fairly easily.

[Troll Control]

:roll:

[Antigen]

There were situations where kids were working out problems with family members and the child could get hurt or need support.

Wanna buy a bridge? Never ceases to amaze me how the Program faithful will buy the most transparent fibs from fellow followers while simply dismissing hard evidence that they don't care to know about.

[TheWho]

There were situations where kids were working out problems with family members and the child could get hurt or need support.

Wanna buy a bridge? Never ceases to amaze me how the Program faithful will buy the most transparent fibs from fellow followers while simply dismissing hard evidence that they don't care to know about.

Thats a stretch......Everyone here is so paranoid and uptight.  It’s a place to make phones calls, not Watergate Ha,Ha,Ha,.  How could it be designed any simpler?  They partition it off so kids can have their privacy.

If there is a counselor in the room then its:  Oh they are listening in.

If there is no counselor in the room then it is: For $6,000 a month you would expect they hire a person to be in the room and wouldn’t have kids watching kids.

[Troll Control]

Nobody said that, BTW.  But, I would say I have a good idea how these things are handled, especially considering that ASR is modeled directly after HLA, right down to the terminology, etc.

The main point is that it is required by law that kids have unfettered access to a free phone to report abuse.  All reports from kids who have attended ASR is that a phone is not available for their use, except for monitored calls to their parents.  This is the industry norm and I believe the kids when they say there were disallowed from using the phone as needed to report abuse.  

Even the "former ASR counselor" told us that there was no phone for student use.  Even you, Who, have stated that there was no phone for their use because they'd probably abuse the privilege - not understanding it is a lawful right, not a privilege.

You change your story more than Alberto Gonzales, with the final refuge being "I don't recall" (as you stated about your kid's therapist that she saw maybe a hundred times -"I don't remember her name").  Pretty hackneyed the way you play both sides of the coin here.  Says a lot about what you'll say and do to be "right" as well.  It just doesn't play...

[TheWho]

Nobody said that, BTW.  But, I would say I have a good idea how these things are handled, especially considering that ASR is modeled directly after HLA, right down to the terminology, etc.

The main point is that it is required by law that kids have unfettered access to a free phone to report abuse.  All reports from kids who have attended ASR is that a phone is not available for their use, except for monitored calls to their parents.  This is the industry norm and I believe the kids when they say there were disallowed from using the phone as needed to report abuse.  

Even the "former ASR counselor" told us that there was no phone for student use.  Even you, Who, have stated that there was no phone for their use because they'd probably abuse the privilege - not understanding it is a lawful right, not a privilege.

You change your story more than Alberto Gonzales, with the final refuge being "I don't recall" (as you stated about your kid's therapist that she saw maybe a hundred times -"I don't remember her name").  Pretty hackneyed the way you play both sides of the coin here.  Says a lot about what you'll say and do to be "right" as well.  It just doesn't play...

I think I was clear?  There is a room off the main area.  When I asked to use a phone they pointed me to the door, it was unlocked (sure they could lock it during the day).  But it was unlocked when I went in.  Are there other phones throughout the school?  I dont no, didn’t ask.........  where was I unclear?

Fairly simple,  If they dont have a phone accessible and it is the law then someone should bring it to their attention or ask how they handle it.  I don’t think having a phone out in the open with 100 teenagers around is a good idea myself (you would have a 100 pizza's delivered !!  Ha,Ha,Ha,), but I am not running the place.
I never had a phone in high school, we had to use the one in the nurses office or principles office (with them listening in!!!!!)

[Antigen]

.Everyone here is so paranoid and uptight.

No, paranoia  is unfounded fear. What we are experienced.

[Troll Control]

Don't conflate the issue.  It's not a privilege; it's a right under law for anyone in treatment.  We all know these places don't resemble high schools, so you can shitcan that tired analogy.  In addition, as anyone who works in telecom can tell you, it's exquisitely simple to set up a dedicated line that dials a sole phone number (say, the state number to report abuse, for example), so no need to worry about, "pizzas."

You say you care about how the kids are treated and want them to be treated as the law prescribes, so please go ahead and forward your concerns for lawful treatment of children to ASR and ask one of your contacts for a written response to the question and post it.  Please include the telephone number of the campus' abuse hotline so that I can verify with the Commonwealth.  At that point the isue will be settled.

For now, I'll have to go with the reports of attendees and a former staff member that there is indeed no phone to report abuse unfettered rather than your speculation about the matter.

[psy]

psy wrote:

With you reporting to the staff... do you really expect them to be open and honest about how they feel about program... Please. I remember parent visits. You had to be positive if you didn't want to get consequences.. I would just love that question: how do you like it here.. I understand Jimmy here loves it. What's your favorite part of program. You HAD to bullshit. You couldn't trust anybody.

Say if your daughter had said something to you about what might have actually been happening... and it shocked you. Provided she was convincing enough for you to get you to question the official line of thought, where would you have gone to confirm the allegation? Well you would probably have gone to staff directly, who would have told you it was a manipulation, laughed at it, told you "well that's a good one.. hahaha".. and then when you leave, your daughter would have gotten in some serious shit... Eventually, they might even be able to convince her that what she saw as "abusive" really wasn't. After all, she was a master manipulator. What's black is white if you believe hard enough. YOU DON'T LEAVE unless you believe it.

How would your daughter know not to report? Well she might have tried with you, had you dismiss it as "manipulative" and given up on turning to you for support. When you go to your own parent, asking for help, and they turn you down, who else do you have to turn to. Nobody. Hope dies.

But what if she never tried? She might have seen what happend to others who tried (or was warned)... or she might have not trusted you enough in the first place (after all, you sent her there, and staff emphasize over and over that parents have full knowledge of what goes on(i, for one, know they don't)).

Come on... When you control communication you can pretty much portray either party in whatever light you want. If you really want to make up with your daughter, ask her to tell her story of what happend to her. And don't say "that's absurd, or, you're exaggerating", or you'll lose her.

At the place you went to that might have been the case, psy,but it just wasn’t like that at ASR.  I am sure if a parent was told by their child that they were beating me  or haven’t been fed in a week there would be some back lash and the school wouldn’t be happy with the kids making up stories like that.  But if the kid was that unhappy to the level they needed to tell stories to that degree they would probably just leave anyway walk out or leave the program.
I asked my daughter if she thought ASR was abusive and she “no”.  Where there parts you thought were bordering on abusive and she said “no”.  I asked her if she could go back to the day she started and change one thing about ASR what would it be.  She thought for a moment and finally said the phone calls.  We only got to talk 20 minutes a week or twice a week but she wished it could have been longer.  Did people listen in to their calls?  No, there was a counselor present when the kids were calling home.  I actually used the phones they used and it was in an open area there was a table which was partitioned off so 4 to six kids could talk at once.  The counselor was in the room to intervene :wink: in case any major conflicts broke out or the child needed support.  We talk about her time at ASR periodically, I may bring it up from time to time based on things I hear on fornits and she brings it up if she hears from a friend in her old peer group.  So the topic isn’t avoided and is far from a sore or uncomfortable subject for us.

Hmm... Never alone communicating with parents.  Daughter believes ASR not to be abusive (don't leave until you believe that...).  Hey... A girl wrote a book about PV claiming it wasn't abusive... When you read what she went through in detail... it was abuse.  but abuse is one of those thigns that was redefined...  Where are the counterpoints here?

Oh it does not matter if there are mountains of evidence against ASR or not.  The school is young.  The milieu control is in place (that means communications) as well as other factors which make it easy to contain abuse if it exists.

So you want to really know what happened.  Go read some of what other survivors of ASR had to say, and ask your daughter about those specific allegations.  My guess is you'd be surprised at what she doesn't consider abuse.

[TheWho]

We all know these places don't resemble high schools

We do?

For now, I'll have to go with the reports of attendees and a former staff member that there is indeed no phone to report abuse rather than your speculation about the matter.

The staff member may be right, he knows more than I do if he worked there.

I didn’t see where I was speculating, just passing along what I know.  I don’t see a problem with their set up, personally, it seems to work well for the kids and the parents.  I think what many kids would like is more phone time not privacy, is the feed back I have heard.  If they feel they are being unfairly treated they should tell their parents when they talk to them.

If someone feels this falls short of a standard it should be brought to someone’s attention to get it clarified, so they can be comfortable with it, I don’t see this as a big deal to resolve.

[psy]

We all know these places don't resemble high schools

We do?

For now, I'll have to go with the reports of attendees and a former staff member that there is indeed no phone to report abuse rather than your speculation about the matter.

The staff member may be right, he knows more than I do if he worked there.

I didn’t see where I was speculating, just passing along what I know.

Based on what??? What the PR departments told you?  Do you have any idea how many lies my parents were told... And it was only years later that i found out the extent of it, and cleared it up.  Their lies sounded plausible. (after all, they get to practice the same shtick all day every day)

I don’t see a problem with their set up, personally, it seems to work well for the kids and the parents.  I think what many kids would like is more phone time not privacy, is the feed back I have heard.  If they feel they are being unfairly treated they should tell their parents when they talk to them.

Oh yeah... SHIT... i mean it worked reeeeel well when I tried it. *click*

I don’t see this as a big deal to resolve.

then you are truly less intelligent than I originally ... wait I take that back.  I was about right.