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Offline psy

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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2007, 07:28:21 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Well thats the kind of thing I mean, the letters and phone calls, visits etc where the kids have to say they're happy or risk mental or physical torture don't paint a true picture, even when they leave (I think Psy said something about this) they still believe they have been saved when there was nothuing wrong in the first place

So how do we distinguish between such kids and the ones who realy are genuinely glad they went to a program

You really can't due to the nature of programs.


Yup.  These programs, if they "suceed", reform what kids believe (not to mention their own self-image/identity).  Often times, you ask them if they were abused and they will say "of course not".. but you ask them about specific details, and there is no question that they were.  The only thing that changes is their definition of abuse.  This is especially true of males, who find it hard to admit they "couldn't take it", as it shows "weakness".  A certain macho attitude makes them think "oh... that wasn't abusive.. pfft... Pussy!!!"  They might have nightmares, phobias, etc.. but they would never admit it... At least for years.  Ask kids that have been out for several years and you usually get different responses.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2007, 07:55:17 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I am guessing, that a program kid who truly believes 100% that their life is better for the experience, would say that it was not abusive, in their eyes itjustified because it gave them a good outcome, the kids who suffered and are still suffering as adults, will say yes, it is very abusive

I think my childhood was abusive, I did not go to a program but I was a very unhappy child and in turn am an unhappy adult, yet i didn't suffer anywhere near what some of these kids do - so i supppose it's all down to the personal thinking of the individual


My daughter looks back at her old friends and feels they could have benefited from ASR and wished they could have.  Not getting into detail their lives are really messed up.  If she felt she had been abused, even a little, I don’t think she would recommend it to people she cared about.  I listen to the stories here about how some kids were reprogrammed and it just doesn’t fit with my daughter specifically (not that it hasn’t happened to other kids or in other programs).  She just accelerated her maturity, was given time to get to know herself again, reflect on what she did in the past, grow etc. and it seemed to work really well with her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2007, 07:57:04 PM »
Exhausted, there's a posting from Lacey on the restrictions thread over on the hla forum. She makes a very good point about kids alot of times sort of giving up or giving in. Some kids end up going along with what they say/want just to get them to stop what they are doing.

See at alot of these places its not enough that you go through the motions and say what they want to hear, they want you to believe it. If you dont you can bet they will make it their goal to either convince you, or break you.

Did you ever see "Cool Hand Luke"? The scene where they make him continusly fill and unfill his own grave is a pretty accurate picture of what its like. They try and keep on you till "you get your mind right." Some kids just give in and eventually believe the lie. Once out however alot of these kids snap out of it and feel like a battered wife who has finally seen the truth and left her abusive husband.  Ive actually only spoken to one person who says they truly benefitted from time spent in a program. She didnt discount what went on in her program and she didnt question why others felt the way they did, but she honestly seemed to feel that without her program she would have died. I have no doubt more people like her exist, and as to whether or not she or they would have actually died I cannot attest. What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that these programs put so much energy into either convincing all these kids they really need these places, or scaring them into keeping their mouth shut. Many of the letters sent home are coerced, I after having written numerous letters that were deemed "manipulative" finally told my counselors to write a letter themselves and sign my name to it, since I clearly wasnt going to be allowed to write what I wanted. When they declined I wrote another letter full of statments like, "I have been instructed to say I am happy. I have been instructed to say this is a wonderful place." That was in fact one of the longer restrictions I had. Well worth it though.
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2007, 08:15:33 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I am guessing, that a program kid who truly believes 100% that their life is better for the experience, would say that it was not abusive, in their eyes itjustified because it gave them a good outcome, the kids who suffered and are still suffering as adults, will say yes, it is very abusive

I think my childhood was abusive, I did not go to a program but I was a very unhappy child and in turn am an unhappy adult, yet i didn't suffer anywhere near what some of these kids do - so i supppose it's all down to the personal thinking of the individual

My daughter looks back at her old friends and feels they could have benefited from ASR and wished they could have.  Not getting into detail their lives are really messed up.  If she felt she had been abused, even a little, I don’t think she would recommend it to people she cared about.  I listen to the stories here about how some kids were reprogrammed and it just doesn’t fit with my daughter specifically (not that it hasn’t happened to other kids or in other programs).  She just accelerated her maturity, was given time to get to know herself again, reflect on what she did in the past, grow etc. and it seemed to work really well with her.


How do you think wwasps gets clients? I'll let the vets confirm this, but isn't recommending the program to others common amongst program-kids? Don't most every program bread these walking talking ads?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2007, 08:21:06 PM »
[quote=""How Thought Reform works - Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D."] TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).[/quote]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2007, 08:38:09 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""

How do you think wwasps gets clients? I'll let the vets confirm this, but isn't recommending the program to others common amongst program-kids? Don't most every program bread these walking talking ads?


I don't think that it is common. IMO, they are usually doing it because their parent got into the referral thing and when they get home their parent uses them as a showcase to show other parents the kid and have the kid explain how great the program is. I don't think this is common though. Most of the referring and all that is done in the parental arena, not in the survivor community. Not to say survivors do not do what you are talking about, but I have never seen one do it by themselves without a parent being involved or another third party. They get used. A lot of the promotional material WWASPS uses is taken during seminars, and not that many kids and families make it to the end of the program. When a facility has 500 kids and only 5-10 are graduating per couple months you know that this is a program designed to never end. Don't forget about home contracts, if a kid comes home their parent becomes the program and many kids are sent back for breaking the contract. If the kid slips up they are awoken at 1am by thugs to take them back to private prison. When a kid graduates from WWASPS, remember they have been locked up for 1.5-2 years on average, sometimes longer. They don't have any friends when they get home. Even if someone they knew happens to remember them, they are totally changed and two years behind every one else. So the kid loses all their friends, by design. Who is the kid going to start telling this private prison is a good idea? Other kids? Are they going to send themselves? No, they are simply a tool to be used by Ed Cons which is another name for program parent who took it to the next level. These kids are two years out of society, no friends or anything on that level, trapped in a home with a strict contract where the new religion is 'the program' as designed by david gilcrease. The brainwashing wears off too and only a small percentage of WWASPS kids remain fanatical about the program for very long. I think the one's who have to maintain the lies in their own mind are the one's who were put in a position to hurt others, and took it.. willingly or not, they took it and that's something they have to live with. Most kids at WWASPS had no reason to be sent anywhere, let alone a brainwashing gulag such as that. If they committed crimes they would be in jail. Most of the younger kids never even smoked marijuana or tried any real drugs. It's like pre-emptive brainwashing or some shit. I don't get it. Never did. You will have to ask the program parents. I know there's a lot of talk about parents being duped, parents have to go to a seminar when they put their kid in wwasps called discovery. It's pretty fucking obvious that the place is not legit after going to one of those, but most parents just give in and give themselves to the program at the cost of their child. I am sure that this is a point that some parents pull their kid. God bless them. They might have been fooled up until that point, but after that they should of seriously asked some questions. Not to mention the letters, but I won't get into that. Or maybe they are like my parents and never got around to going to the seminars, just because they didn't want to do them. So were they fooled because they were too lazy to do the one thing wwasps asked them to do? Doesn't matter, because they would have eaten that shit up and absolutely loved it, and that's the funny thing right there. What I see as abusive and unfit treatment for teens they see as a revolutionary idea of how to deal with teens. Kevin is the first WWASPS survivor I've seen go out on their own into the teen ref eral business. All the rest I've seen are just being dragged along by their parents. So brain damaged by their years of torment and brainwashing the only thing left in their life is to be held up like a puppet to speak the good word of gilcrease and the program. Sure you have sympathy for them, but only so much because they are converts to the side that recruits other kids to be hurt just like them. That is why this is a never ending cycle. To them we are just the unsavables who aren't really worth saving anyways, disposable people who really are the coolest one's around.. strong headed creative individuals who refuse to give up their sovereignty of mind in order to satisfy a few worldly comforts and beliefs. And they call us crazy? Please.
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Offline Ursus

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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2007, 08:17:59 AM »
I think a lot depends on the coercive style of the program.  Some programs are easier to see through than others.  I have seen some walking talking advertisements for Hyde years later, kids who were initially singled out for success and consequently spared some of the experiences the rest of us went through.

One case I read of was a bit different though.  Brother and sister initially went, parents only had enough $ for one to continue.  Hyde tells them the sister has more "leadership potential," so the brother is yanked.  For the rest of his life he's trying to prove them wrong.  Insists his kids go.  Trouble with the spouse, they differ on this issue, and separated to boot.  Youngest is a free spirit, hates the place, but dad is a control freak on this issue and insists.  Mom sides with kid, underhanded custody issues ensue...
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Offline psy

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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2007, 09:04:01 AM »
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I have seen some walking talking advertisements for Hyde years later, kids who were initially singled out for success and consequently spared some of the experiences the rest of us went through.


I call those "chosen ones"...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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how much did they pay you for that?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2007, 10:49:11 AM »
Quote from: ""sick of child torture girl""
sorry bout spelling errors so late  :lol:
 are you one of the bundys or what?
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