Tenn May Close Program Treating Gayness

[psy]

Perhaps every parent who is considering sending their off spring to be degayified (i assume mostly for religious reasons) should be forced to read the following book
http://www.amazon.com/This-Remarkable-G ... 1864484624

It was written by a catholic priest but more or less applies to all branches of Cristianity that obsess over who it is OK to have sex with.

I double dare you to post that letter psy

Oh gods... i cannot resist any longner.. the urge...  Especially with that warning to natsap.. and i told long if he demonstrated he was non neutural one more time...  it's just too great... gataaaa.a.,a.a i'm giving birth to a great big baby....
"however, suggests you have forgotten the reasons your parents placed you and are unable to move on since you seem to be stuck in your resentment."[/i]

 ::both::

Oh by the way.. he never responded to that letter.. pity.. i was planning on saving them all up for a rainy fornits day.

Oh... and don't worry lon... I didn't break my promise. You  broke your neutrality by warning natsap... and i didn't  even post the letter on fornts. (but good ol MR guest will be around here soon i'm pretty sure to quote it in full for archival purposes)... why thank you mister guest.

[nimdA]

From: Michael Crawford

Date: February 19, 2007 4:13:11 AM EST

To: Lon Woodbury

Subject: Re: Un-banning


On Feb 19, 2007, at 12:30 AM, Lon Woodbury wrote:


Michael:


As I mentioned before, I have turned the decision over to Jena regarding

giving back your posting privileges, and I'm not going to undercut that.


Our brief exchange on the forum told me a lot.  You made a global assertion

about IECA not doing anything on ethics.  I pointed out that that was not

quite true, they did have an active ethics procedure, though their actions

might be less aggressive than might be desired.


Instead of acknowledging that you had over spoken, acknowledging the point,

and continuing, you simply relentlessly pursued your point by insisting

essentially they didn't have the police powers of the state to enforce their

decisions, thus your argument stood.


And still my argument stands.  Am I obliged to accept your point of view simply because you presented a counterpoint?  Perhaps i misspoke in my initial statement that "The IECA appears to have no method to enforce it's principles of good practice and has no means to investigate allegations of ethics breaches".  I should have instead said "effective method" and "effective means" respectively.  No private organization ever has the same level of power that the state has.  I don't see what invalidates that point.


This told me you didn't listen and had a steel trap mind on the subject,

thus any further discussion with you was a waste of time.


This also told me that you are enamored with using whatever police powers

the state has to accomplish goals that you approve of, which to me is a very

left wing perspective that leaves out allowing the people to work things out

for themselves.


Isn't that sort of letting butchers regulate themselves, or the pharmaceutical industry?  Do you see no reason for the FDA?  Government regulation becomes necessary when an industry demonstrates it is unable, or unwilling to regulate itself effectively or at all.  Show me an example... one example, of industry self regulation in the troubled teen industry.


The history of dealing with rebellious and out of control teens seems to me,

in short form:


1. The government's main asset is the use of force.  The ancient Hebrews

stoned rebellious teens to death, the middle ages wasn't much better.

Currently, most of the deaths by restraint and abusive situations I hear

about are in highly regulated and under the heavy oversight of government

run facilities or those the government funds and dictates how to work with

children.  It is well documented that usually kids are punished in these

facilities, not provided mental health services and recidivism rates are

extremely high.


Do you have any evidence to show that recidivism rates from private institutions are any better?  And i mean peer-reviewed studies, not industry sponsored adverta-research.  I agree that many abuses do happen in public institutions, but do you honestly believe they hold a monopoly on mistreatment?


  However, this is the default treatment unless something

better is found, something that doesn't depend solely on politicians and

bureaucrats.


2. After alcoholism was determined to be an illness in 1962, we had a major

run on hospitalization for all kinds of objectionable behaviors.  Currently,

it is too common to use drugs to maintain control, and although some

facilities seem to be decent, many of the other deaths and abuses occur

here.  In this, the major part of the decisions are made by mental health

experts, and most are heavily regulated with strong government oversight.


3. The network I work with tried bringing parents into the solution (they

are mostly excluded in numbers one and two) as a balance.


You attempt to bring parents into the solution?  How?  Most private facilities i know of, including many you refer to, including Benchmark, heavily restrict and monitor communication between parent and child.  How is this keeping parents in the solution?


The attempt is to

find a balance between government, mental health experts and parents to

provide a decent experience for those kids that need it.  Each providing

some kind of check on the others. Professionals are the rule, but are not

allowed to have absolute control since that would bring the situation back

to number 2.  It's a very tenuous balance, but I think offers more hope that

number 1 & 2.


4.  Out of this, a number of programs and consultants piggy backed with less

responsible people, commonly using Finders Fees for marketing (cash for

kids) and cheaper behavioral modification methods.  These are routinely

condemned by professionals, always do poorly in my surveys, and we wish a

way can be found to rein them in.


Oh.  CEDU, and it's derivatives such as Benchmark?  Are you aware Benchmark has no licensed counselors as staff?   Are you aware they still use propheets (renamed to "Friendship Workshop").  Are you aware prophets is comprised almost verbatim out of material from est and Lifespring (both LGAT cults according to many experts).  Are you aware they consider suicide attempts "manipulations"?  These programs do poorly in your surveys?


Regarding finders fees...  There is more than one way to skin a cat.  Educational consultants may not always receive compensation for the placement of a child, but do they not receive graduation bonuses?  In a facility where the kids cannot leave and/or graduation is guaranteed, is not a "graduation bonus" equal to a placement bonus for all practical purposes.


However, by demanding federal regulation on number 4, there is a strong

chance of destroying number 3, leaving number 1 and 2 as the only options

still standing.


In your situation, as near as I can tell, Benchmark did what Benchmark does,

and it was absolutely wrong for you, for whatever reason. Your relentless

attempt to prove them wrong,


I am attempting to shut them down.  And like Deborah and HLA, I will not stop until I succeed.  I do not need to prove them wrong, i know they are wrong.  I am up to my eyeballs in evidence.


however, suggests you have forgotten the

reasons your parents placed you and are unable to move on since you seem to

be stuck in your resentment.


First of all.  I was sent to Benchmark because my parents found out i am Bisexual.  If you do not believe that I can send you a copy of their initial letter to Benchmark describing my "Issues".  No legitimate mental health institution would have accepted a person for that reason.  Benchmark, did not care.  They accepted anybody for any person for any reason whatsoever (including no reason in some cases).  Some parents just wanted to get rid of their kids and *feel* good about the decision.


My quarrel with Benchmark is *not* about my personal grudge or lingering resentment.  I would have no problem with Benchmark if I had just been an isolated case and had since reformed.  My problem with Benchmark stems from the knowledge that what happend to me, and what i saw happen to my friends, is still happening this very day.  I was _lucky_.  My parents realized they were being manipulated, came to visit, were appalled by what they saw, and "rescued me".  I left everybody else behind.  My quarrel with Benchmark is about them, and those still there.  Do you find it so hard to believe that somebody could do something out of an altruistic motive?


Since that time, my parents and I have reconciled, learned to overcome our differences, and they are sorry they ever sent me to Benchmark.  If they had not "rescued me", like 70% of the kids I knew, I would have ended up on the streets.  They did not let anybody graduate (but a select few for testimonials).  You don't believe me?  Go to benchmark's old site (www.benchmarkeducation.net).  Go to the internet archive (archive.org) and look up the site.  They are using today the same exact testimonials that they have been using since they first put up a website.  Benchmark claims a 97% graduation statistic (which is accurate only because they "graduate" everybody, even those who they drop on the streets).  Benchmark claims they do not "drop kids on the streets".  Perhaps you would like to speak to a few friends of mine i have found.  Or better yet, you want to see Benchmark's finest graduates?  Go down to Redlands California in March, and look in the drainage canals.  Ask the kids how many graduation ceremonies they saw during their stay at Benchmark.  During my entire 1 year stay at Benchmark, i saw only two graduation ceremonies.  You want to talk about recidivism rates?  What do you think a kid, dropped on the streets with no money, shelter, food, or property has to do to survive?  Anything and everything.  Is that a healthy environment for emotional growth?


Maybe you are just unaware of what happens.  Maybe you think it is too ridiculous, too absurd, too unbelievable.  I will stand by everything I state here, in court if necessary.  If you have any questions as to "how do they get away with this", and it's not answered on my website, please ask me directly.


  And, it is a very emotional reaction to

condemn a whole class of people you have not met (i.e. all the other private

parent-choice schools) based on your personal experience at this one school.


I do not necessarily condemn each and every private school.  I condemn those programs derived from cults and quackery (Synanon, est, Lifespring ...)  This is not slander.  You have probably read about the APA's task-force report on LGATs (In which both Lifespring and Est were mentioned by name) and Synanon has a very public, very long, list of crimes.  Mel Wasserman (former furniture salesman) based propheets (as well as other aspects of CEDU) on Est and Lifespring and hired many ex-synonites as staff members.  You know this.  You documented it well in your "Out of the Sixties" essay.  Since CEDU's inception, many other "CEDU clones" have since started (Cascade, Benchmark, etc etc...).  Randomly pick a school from your "Parent Empowerment Handbook" and google the backgrounds of the staff members.


I consider the original CEDU model poisonous and abusive. I cannot see anything good coming from it.  Perhaps you could explain to me what was "good" about the CEDU model?


And, in general, I object to attempts to close down all private

parent-choice schools and programs, since I don't have faith that numbers 1

and 2 will be any better than in the past.


You may be right.  But how common is it for kids to get referred to such public mental health institutions, in comparison with private programs?  Private choice programs do not have admissions criteria, relying to educational consultants and/or the parents themselves to both make a diagnosis, and suggest a cure.


Would parents be so quick to institutionalize their kids if this industry did not exist?  Many programs advertise in a "we fix em all" manner, implying they are able to cure anything from asbergers to ADHD to bipolar depression.  Are these schools implying they can fix problems that cannot be (biochemical for instance), or should not (sexual orientation) be fixed?


I'm responding to this not as an argument regarding banning you, but as

another attempt to see if you can discuss something, rather than argue your

predetermined conclusion.


Is a "predetermined conclusion" similar to "point of view"?  Would you rather I not have one?  Would you rather I had not done my research and concluded anything?  Without such things, discussions become lectures.


  And, as a test to see if you can contain yourself

from posting it on fornits.


I'll be perfectly frank here:


I have stated my policy on my e-mails publicly several times.  I do not publicly post any private e-mails unless they are from educational consultants, NATSAP, or otherwise connected to the troubled teen industry.


I will not post this on Fornits for now.  Why?  Because i am willing to give *you* the benefit of the doubt.  I generally consider educational consultants to be "hostiles" because so many of them have so few scruples.  I have considered *you* a hostile because i _highly_ suspect you banned me for convincing Lori not to send her kid to a TBS.  The girl clearly didn't need a TBS.  Yes I know that.  And if you knew the facts you would agree as well (i keep in contact).  A TBS however, would not have cared, and could very likely have wrecked that girl.  Looking at this from a business standpoint, i can see why you might ban me... somebody is in your butcher's shop on Thanksgiving handing out fliers on trichinosis...  I was "pissing in your coffee".


As much as i find it very hard to believe, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, and as such, will not consider you a "hostile" until you prove otherwise.  There are people in this world who have no ethics.  I hope you are not one of them.


If you request that i have an open mind, I make the same request of you.  You may think you know what many of these schools are like but, at least in the case of Benchmark, you had the wool pulled over your eyes.


Mike

[nimdA]

Oh yeah.. One of these days Reggie North is gonna have something to say about Struggling Motards also.

 :rofl:

BTW.. Did that one kid, the 16 year old, end up going to dequeerification camp? I hope not.. seems like a horrible thing to do to a kid who is probably confused about his sexuality. I mean what the hell.. who really knows what the hell they are at 16. Pretty sad that the parents would get so hung up on a point like sexual orientation when obviously their kid had enough going on about himself to fire up his own blog to get the word out.


and for the last time..

13 men walking around with each other in the middle east? LOLS.. come on folks.. Sausage party!

I'm surprised Jesus didn't limp more on the way up the hill with his cross if you know what I mean.

[psy]

Oh yeah.. One of these days Reggie North is gonna have something to say about Struggling Motards also.

 :rofl:

BTW.. Did that one kid, the 16 year old, end up going to dequeerification camp? I hope not.. seems like a horrible thing to do to a kid who is probably confused about his sexuality. I mean what the hell.. who really knows what the hell they are at 16. Pretty sad that the parents would get so hung up on a point like sexual orientation when obviously their kid had enough going on about himself to fire up his own blog to get the word out.

They mind-fucked him yes.  after a year or so of program... When he snaps out of it (and that's a when and not an if) his reaction to his parents is going to be... just a little bit ugly.

The problem is that parents truly believe that thier kids are going to burn eternally in hell... so of course.. they do anything... dead insane in jail man... scare and lure.. why do all these things have the same pattern...

[nimdA]

Sometime you need to see the ugly before you see the pretty. Parents really do need to look at their children from the perspective that these kids are like containers. They contain the sum total of what you put into them. The kid of crap the parents are having pumped into this kid no dout is going to run over in a very ugly way.

I remember a kid at 3 springs who went home and went off the chain about 6 months later. Was a very ugly and painful experience for his parents. They were all for sending him right back to 3 springs, but thankfully wiser heads prevailed and after a short 3 day return visit to three springs the boy willingly entered into a local outpatient substance abuse program and stayed at home.

Last I heard the family is doing much better now that the father went out on a limb for the first time in his son's life and actually listened to his kid rather than ignoring anything his son had to say.

[Kreflo]

PENINSULA VILLAGE in Knoxville TN does not claim to treat homosexuality but once they have a gay kid in lockdown they VERY STRONGLY discourage it with some very heavy handed techniques.[/b]

[exhausted]

Why can't people let other people be who they are?

If my sons came home and said they are gay/straight/bi, I so wouldn't give a crap, they are still my sons and I love them regrdless, who cares, it takes allsorts to keep this world an interesting place to be

Anyway if God didn't want gays on this planet, he would make sure everyone was straight

Reading back, someone mentions about catholics and being gay - I am catholic, any church I have attended welcomes everyone and anyone, regardless of sexuality, race, religion or whatever .. they are learning to be more accepting

[Anonymous]

Yeah they gotta be more accepting with all those gay priests buggering young boys

[ZenAgent]

Treatment for homosexuality implies it's a negative behavior followed by choice, like addiction.  No one can change someone's sexual preference, perhaps they might coerce homosexuals into repressing their true nature.  Fuck that, I've seen too many kids end up as suicides because they didn't want to shame mom and dad by being who they are.  I'm guessing this program in TN is Christian based.  If you are a fundamentalist Christian, homosexuality is an abomination to you, because in the Bible there is no gray area on the subject, it's a mortal sin.

Time for people to get their heads out of their asses and practice a little religious reform.  I haven't seen any Christians sacrificing rams to Yahweh recently, so I guess that was discontinued because it's barbaric.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and apply that to everyone.

[Deborah]

This thread seems to have moved on without the story or link posted in the first message. Sorry, the system wasn't accepting it and I'm just getting back to it. The story is posted now in the first page and here's a follow up.

Tennessee to Close Home for ‘Curing’ Homosexualsby Brendan Coyne Sept. 21, 2005 – The Tennessee Department of Health is seeking to shutter a group home operated by a religious organization that claims it can "cure" homosexuality through prayer. The grounds for closing the facility rest on the operators’ failure to obtain a license, not on the content of the "therapy" provided to participants in the program.
 
Reportedly, the home’s operator, Love in Action International, has until Friday to cease operations.

Health Department officials have conducted at least two separate investigations of the organization’s religious operations this year, one prompted by the online postings of a teenager whose parents signed him up for the program after he announced his sexual orientation.

Early this summer, 16-year-old Zach Stark’s weblog postings detailing the regime he endured at Refuge, the Love in Action Tennessee camp, spurred international outcry and condemnation of the group’s methods. Under pressure, the state initiated a child abuse investigation, but ultimately cleared Refuge of any wrongdoing.

A subsequent visit, however, found the group to be providing housing and personal care for "mentally ill" people without the required state license.

In an interview with Southern Voice, Rachel Lassiter, deputy press secretary for Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen, said, "The clients were determined to be mentally ill because some of them had been treated by psychiatrists and were on medication."

Former Refuge clients have told the media that staff at the camp administered psychiatric drugs and tests to them while they were at the camp.

On September 12, the Tennessee Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities ordered the home’s operators to either obtain a license or cease operations. After the group failed to respond, the Department sent a second notice setting a September 15 license filing deadline.

In a statement lauding Tennessee’s action, Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians & Gays (PFLAG) noted that the move sets the stage for other states to follow suit. "We hope this will serve as notice to other practitioners of this junk science known as ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that their days are numbered," said PFLAG spokesperson, Ron Schlittler. "And we hope that this action by the Tennessee Department of Mental Health is noticed by similar agencies in other states."
             
Representatives of Love in Action said they are communicating with state officials about issues in the order. The organization has indicated that it intends to comply with the order.

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[ZenAgent]

As I thought - Christian based.

[psy]

As I thought - Christian based.

Of course.. and associated with Jerry Fallwell, whose influence in the reagan administration had a good deal to do with why it ignored the AIDS crisis and just let all those "faggots" die off.