Lone Star Expeditions

[Deborah]

Actually kids are much safer being in a wilderness program where they are exposed to staff who are trained to keep kids safe.  If an emergency occurred like a heart attack I think any parent would rather have their child in the hands of trained people than sitting in some friends basement or driving around somewhere with people that have the response time and training of Ozzy Osborne.

Compare the response time in wilderness as compared to the city/ civilization. Takes hours sometimes to reach their remote locations. In Ian August's case, the emergency chopper couldn't even land because it was so hot that day- over 100*.

The key is where are they safest and surrounded the most by people who are trained to respond and keep them safe?

Should all teens live in TBS bubbles.  :roll:  Clearly they're safer where EMTs can get to them in a timely fashion. EMTs who haven't been trained to ignore their EMT training and defer to the program's methods.

And stop presenting your stupid chart
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=252502#252502
as evidence of anything, other than your deceptive, twisted bias.

[TheWho]

Compare the response time in wilderness as compared to the city/ civilization. Takes hours sometimes to reach their remote locations. In Ian August's case, the emergency chopper couldn't even land because it was so hot that day- over 100*.

Not arguing that… it is remote.  But the kids are around trained counselors 24/7 .  The child can be 5 minutes away from a heart surgeon in an air conditioned basement smoking crack, but if Ozzy doesn’t pick up the phone and call someone or is too high to notice, no help is coming, ever.  I would rather my kids be in the dessert with trained professionals.

Should all teens live in TBS bubbles.  Clearly they're safer where EMTs can get to them in a timely fashion. EMTs who haven't been trained to ignore their EMT training and defer to the program's methods.

No, I don’t think anyone would advocate that all kids go to a TBS, just like not everyone should admit themselves into a hospital, just to be safe.  (although I do have a friend whos father has an EMT on call with a panic button and pays him for it!) I believe what parents need to look at are the options available to him/her when they have a child in crises and choose one that is safest for their child.  

As a parent these are the things I tend to look at first.

If some schools truly train their EMT’s to ignore the kids then choose one that does not have this policy.

And stop presenting your stupid chart

It is data that is re-organized from caica and cafety etc.  They aren’t numbers I came up with.

[hanzomon4]

If these kids in wilderness are around "trained" counselors 24/7 then someone needs to be in jail. They should have known the symptoms and the dangers of withdrawing a kid off of psych meds in a "wilderness" setting. Medical neglect through and through......

[TheWho]

If these kids in wilderness are around "trained" counselors 24/7 then someone needs to be in jail. They should have known the symptoms and the dangers of withdrawing a kid off of psych meds in a "wilderness" setting. Medical neglect through and through......

I agree, if that is the case, I believe there is a court action in progress which should bring all that out in the open.  If the counselor’s didnt do their job then we will know.  But lets not jump the gun and place blame prematurely.

[Oz girl]

If these kids in wilderness are around "trained" counselors 24/7 then someone needs to be in jail. They should have known the symptoms and the dangers of withdrawing a kid off of psych meds in a "wilderness" setting. Medical neglect through and through......

The Who seems to confuse being over 18 with a highschool diploma and a basic first aid certificate with being a trained medical professional. I woudlnt have any qualms about sending a kid to summer camp but I would not kid myself that the staff are professional. The difference is the "professionals" in charge of the kids are not allowed to administer drugs or make absurd medical decisions like whether to take a kid off medication. In the event that somekind of mishap occurs where a kid requires something more than basic first aid the onsite nurse is called.

[TheWho]

The Who seems to confuse being over 18 with a highschool diploma and a basic first aid certificate with being a trained medical professional. I woudlnt have any qualms about sending a kid to summer camp but I would not kid myself that the staff are professional. The difference is the "professionals" in charge of the kids are not allowed to administer drugs or make absurd medical decisions like whether to take a kid off medication. In the event that somekind of mishap occurs where a kid requires something more than basic first aid the onsite nurse is called.

There is no confusion.  What you stated is the basic requirements for a “Caregiver” in the state of Texas by law.  This in no way solely reflects what “Lonestar” employs as employees.

Again You seem to be jumping the gun.  Was the child taken off any medication?  If so….Who took the child off of the medication?  At what point was it done?  Was a doctor consulted first?  Did this contribute to his death?

In the event someone onsite cannot handle a medical situation then EMTs  (or maybe nurse) are called and if they need further assistance then the child may need to be moved to a hospital and if the surgeon on duty isn’t qualified to perform the operation  then a heart surgeon is called in etc. on and on.  But if the child dies along the way why blame the counselors or EMTs?  Or hospital or heart surgeon unless there is proof of neglect?

Instead of blaming the industry we need to look at the laws and regulations and determine the cause of death.  Once the root cause is determined then we need to trace back thru protocol and try to determine who dropped the ball.  This will lead to new laws or corrective action against the school or criminal action etc.  but for any of us to sit here and point fingers is wrong and shows agenda.

[Deborah]

didn't the place where this child died have several lapsed certificates, several non-certified employees without background checks and no nurse? this hardly seems like a safe environment. aren't most wildernessprograms also not licensed by the states they operate in and don't they employ relatively untrained and very inexperienced uncertified staff members? and these places aren't even monitored by the state.

Not totally true, I believe there were some expired back ground checks.

Bless your heart Who. You just can't admit any fault with a program, or the industry, can you?

Violations from Aug 2005 State Inspection:
-One staff record had an expired CPR certification (CPR expired 12/8/04).
-One staff record reviewed had only two documented trainings for the year 2004. One of the trainings was for 1 hour, and the second training had no instructor listed, nor the duration of the training itself.
-The fire inspection expired on 3/8/05.
-Two staff records reviewed lacked the four clock hours of annual behavior intervention training. One staff record had CPI certification which expired 1/16/05, and another had CPI certification which expired 12/20/03.
-Two staff records reviewed had expired criminal and Central registry background checks.

Violations from May 2006 State Inspection:
-In comparing the active employee list to the current People List in CLASS, it was noted that one employee's background check had not been resubmitted within 24 months. It was corrected by the facility at the Inspection.
-Out of three staff member records reviewed, CPR training had expired for one of the direct care staff members. The facility stated it was an over-sight and that the staff member will up-date his CPR training as soon as possible.
-The annual Health Inspection has expired. The facility is scheduling an appointment with the local Health Department.
-The LP Gas Inspection expired  

Re: Nurse
§748.569. Must I have health care professionals on staff or on contract if I provide services to children with primary medical needs?
DFPS Rules, 40 TAC, effective January 1, 2007
If you provide treatment services to 25 or more children with primary medical needs or if more than 30% of the children in your care receive treatment services for primary medical needs:
(1) You must have a licensed registered nurse on staff or on contract to respond to emergencies, questions, or other medical issues. A registered nurse must work during the day at the operation. A registered nurse in this position may be relieved on days off by a licensed registered nurse or by a licensed vocational nurse with appropriate supervision as defined in Tex. Occ. Code §301.353.
(2) You must arrange for:
(A) 24-hour availability of nursing, medical, and psychiatric services;
(B) Licensed nursing services, including 24-hour nursing direction or
supervision;
(C) Assistance with mobility;
(D) Routine adjustments or replacement of medical equipment; and
(E) As needed, caregiver supervision of children during the provision of medical and dental services.
(3) You must ensure that a physician on staff or on contract recommends and approves services at each initial diagnosis and at each review.

§748.573. What are the requirements for other nursing personnel for an operation that provides treatment services to 25 or more children with primary medical needs, or for an operation in which more than 30% of the children in care receive treatment services for primary medical needs? DFPS Rules, 40 TAC, effective January 1, 2007
Your nursing personnel must:
(1) Be awake and available at the operation on a 24-hour basis;
(2) Be under the direction of a registered nurse who is licensed to practice in Texas; and
(3) Include a licensed vocational nurse or registered nurse.

[Oz girl]

Job Description - Exciting jobs in the outdoor wilderness!

If you love working for summer camps, this is even more exciting as it is a great way to learn the skills of working with adolescents in a unique therapeutic environment. Lone Star Expeditions is looking for enthusiastic people to be a role model and educator for teens in the Davy Crockett National Forest in East Texas . If you like the great outdoors and working with at-risk teens, then this is your opportunity to explore both. Work 8 days on and 6 days off with lots of overtime. This is a wonderful entry level position into a career working with teenagers. No experience necessary. Must be at least 21 years of age and be able to pass a physical, drug screen, and background check. (Prefer current CPR/First Aid Certification) You can find out more about this exciting opportunity by calling Melvin Cates at 936-831-3133. EOE

Not only is no qualification necessary but no experience is either. Unless i am mistaken do some universities in the US offer a degree in enthusiasm and role modelling?

[Deborah]

There is no confusion.  What you stated is the basic requirements for a “Caregiver” in the state of Texas by law.  This in no way solely reflects what “Lonestar” employs as employees.

And, how would you know this? Most of their bios contain nothing. The two with bios aren't very impressive.

Ali, Maz - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Austin, Brad - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Brad started working with Lone Star Expeditions in August of 2005.  A native of Arkansas, he currently lives in Fort Worth, TX.  Brad loves to play various sports and is an avid football & baseball fan, goes hunting, plays golf, loves to travel, and enjoys spending time with his family.  
Barnes, Sara - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Batdorf, Ann - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Crawford, Eva - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Fugette, Joshua - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Gleason, Haley - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Morris, Leah - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Pylant, Emily - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Jara, Euan - Wilderness Field Instructor II
Martin, Candi - Wilderness Field Instructor II
Page, Lethia - Wilderness Field Instructor III - Senior
Scroggins, John - Wilderness Field Instructor III - Master
Cuevas, Mike - Wilderness Field Instructor III - Head
Ripoli, Dominic - Field Instructor III - Head
Adams, Chris - Wilderness/Field Instructor IV - Master
Ballew, Olin - Wilderness Field Instructor IV - Master
Olin began working with Lone Star Expeditions in June of 2004. He enjoys renovating & repairing motorcycles, woodland survival skills, & is intrigued by depth of character & people‘s imaginations.
http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pict ... sp?progid={89EBFCD4-5A20-45FB-B717-C9C6768365D3}#

Again You seem to be jumping the gun.  Was the child taken off any medication?  If so….Who took the child off of the medication?

You're just going to completely ignore the mother's complaint?  

But if the child dies along the way why blame the counselors or EMTs?

Depends on the circumstances m'dear. And in most cases time was lost due to the so-called counselors letting the kid sit and die because they erroneously assumed s/he was faking. Ian August even passed Skyline Journey's sophisticated field test for flushin out fakers. Raise their arm and drop it in/near their face. If they flench, they're fakin. He was left to bake in the sun and shortly thereafter died, while the imbecile in charge of his well-being hid behind a bush waiting to catch Ian in the act.
Yeh, these are the type idiots I'd want my kid in the blazing/freezing desert with. I put more trust in "Ozzy". He doesn't have an agenda and most reasonably intellegent people know how to dial 911, even when they're stoned.

Instead of blaming the industry we need to look at the laws and regulations and determine the cause of death.  Once the root cause is determined then we need to trace back thru protocol and try to determine who dropped the ball.  This will lead to new laws or corrective action against the school or criminal action etc.  but for any of us to sit here and point fingers is wrong and shows agenda.

Who specifically are you fingering for pointing fingers, Who? This is precisely what we are doing- lookinig at laws and regulations. WE will not determine 'cause of death', that's the coroner's job. And a few comments have been made about psych drug withdrawal, based on the mother's claim that staff denied him his biopolar drugs and that he lay vomitting for 15 minutes before anything was done for him. I'm goin with the mom's claim. I just don't believe she'd concoct such a story if it weren't true.

[TheWho]

Oz Girl,  you think that is bad.  These are the qualifications of people they hire at a place where they actually do heart surgery:

Tech Asst
MRI at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center
Per Diem. Six months experience in a Radiology department clerical section. Medical terminology a plus. Technical skills to include basic keyboard operation, operating O2 tanks, and operating patient beds. Ability to communicate effectively with others and demonstrate problem solving ability. Prepares, processes, and files film jackets according to numerical filing system. Current BLS.
Job Code: UO6351


Resource Central Supply Tech
Central Services * Supplie at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center
Resource. High school diploma or equivalent. 1 to 3 years experience in Central Supply in an acute hospital setting preferred. Must be motivated and able to work with little to no supervision, able to stand for most of 8 hours, and able to lift up to 25 pounds. Basic product knowledge, distribution/par level cart techniques and warehousing procedures preferred.
Job Code: UO6390


Resource SPD Technician I Sterile Processing at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center
Resource. High school graduate. 1 to 3 years previous hospital Central Service experience. Basic knowledge of aseptic and sterile processing techniques, sterilization, sterile storage, equipment disinfection, and preparation of instrument trays. Prolonged standing, and lifting up to 30lbs. Certification preferred.

No one needs a degree at all.!! and they perform heart surgery at this place!!

http://www.memorialcare.org/apps/jobs/p ... search.cfm

Based on the partial information I posted the kids are better off at the wilderness program than a hospital.

[Oz girl]

And, how would you know this? Most of their bios contain nothing. The two with bios aren't very impressive.

Ali, Maz - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Austin, Brad - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Brad started working with Lone Star Expeditions in August of 2005.  A native of Arkansas, he currently lives in Fort Worth, TX.  Brad loves to play various sports and is an avid football & baseball fan, goes hunting, plays golf, loves to travel, and enjoys spending time with his family.  
Barnes, Sara - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Batdorf, Ann - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Crawford, Eva - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Fugette, Joshua - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Gleason, Haley - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Morris, Leah - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Pylant, Emily - Wilderness Field Instructor I
Jara, Euan - Wilderness Field Instructor II
Martin, Candi - Wilderness Field Instructor II
Page, Lethia - Wilderness Field Instructor III - Senior
Scroggins, John - Wilderness Field Instructor III - Master
Cuevas, Mike - Wilderness Field Instructor III - Head
Ripoli, Dominic - Field Instructor III - Head
Adams, Chris - Wilderness/Field Instructor IV - Master
Ballew, Olin - Wilderness Field Instructor IV - Master
Olin began working with Lone Star Expeditions in June of 2004. He enjoys renovating & repairing motorcycles, woodland survival skills, & is intrigued by depth of character & people‘s imaginations.
http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pict ... sp?progid={89EBFCD4-5A20-45FB-B717-C9C6768365D3}#
.[/quote]

I I dunno, A love of sport and motorbikes  should more than equip a person to work with young people with a wide variety of troubles on a 24/7 basis. Besides this Mr Ballew is also intruiged by depth of Character and imagination. Who wouldnt view this as an adequate replacement for real credentials? ::roflmao::

[TheWho]

And, how would you know this? Most of their bios contain nothing. The two with bios aren't very impressive.

Exactly my point, we dont, based off their web site.  They could all be doctors or a week away from their dissertation.

We need to base our positions on facts not speculation.

[nimdA]

Do some googling and tell me if you find the two employees that have criminal records. Took me about 2 minutes.

[TheWho]

Here are 6 people I checked out:

Person 1:  Masters degree in Business Administration from the University of Utah, a Masters degree in Recreation from George Williams College, and a Bachelors degree in Biological Science from Colorado State University

Person 2:  He is a Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor, a Certified Trauma Resolution Therapist, and has a degree in Substance Abuse.

Person 3:  Master’s degree in Counseling from Ball State University, IN

Person 4:  Master’s degree in Counselor Education,

Person 5:  Master of Arts in Community Counseling.

Person 6:  Bachelor of Social Work from Stephen F. Austin State University ……interned at the Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services in the foster and adoption department and served her senior internship at Nacogdoches Memorial Hospital

I'll keep looking

[Troll Control]

funny that the only staff the who listed have no names.  also, you claimed earlier that this kid "would have died anyway" regardless of his treatment or medications.  i'm still waiting for you to post the basis of this statement.  please post the link to where you got this information.