Author Topic: Engaging discussion  (Read 2763 times)

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Offline nimdA

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am the metal pig.

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 10:29:08 PM »
TSW, I am surprised that you would post this, The discussion seemed to be going well until this was said:

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I didn't give up on an industry. I universally condemned an entire organization based on evil. The youth program industry is evil. I can't and won't ever even attempt to improve on evil.

You cant argue with this type of mentality.  This person, Dan obviously can?t stand toe to toe and defend his points.  This is evident when faced with an argument of specifics he steps back and points a finger at the entire industry and calls it evil.  He stands on the side lines and decides to do nothing but criticize others even though he is in a position to effect change himself.  He lacks professional courage, which if put to good use could help a good many of these kids he claims to care for.
Ever try to rationalize with someone who feels all blacks are evil or all Catholics or Jews should die?  Have you ever seen main stream political groups debate with the KKK or Nazi party?  No, not often, because they have no position except hate.  No specifics, no data, no justification to back their position, just stories of people who lost their jobs to a black man or a Jew ( or some other reason) and blame the entire population because of their experience and a few others.

Then if evidence of success (or disproof of their position) is thrown on the table for discussion?  They respond with:

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?? Sorry to hear you feel that way. Perhaps you should do some research on Stockholm Syndrome?.


This is classic and many have this mentality which allows them to ignore the facts placed before them.  This really discredits the individuals attempt at rational debate or reasoning and exposes personal motives?.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nimdA

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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 10:47:15 PM »
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20797

I shall not be swayed from my course.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2007, 11:50:23 AM »
Stay strong, Gookie.  Stay true to The Pledge!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2007, 12:12:43 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This is evident when faced with an argument of specifics he steps back and points a finger at the entire industry and calls it evil.


Or he steps back and points a finger at that ridiculous pledge.
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2007, 12:35:19 PM »
Might take a couple days, but some heavy goods about to be laid out on the table. Stay tuned... mwahahahahahaahahahah.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2007, 12:54:51 PM »
This forum desperately needs a few teenage program representatives, so you stop expending energy and time fighting your own.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007, 01:19:02 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
This forum desperately needs a few teenage program representatives, so you stop expending energy and time fighting your own.


I agree with you guest, they do stop in from time to time to tell their story and share their experiences, but most of them quickly move on.  The ones that do well and were successful rarely show up here, I think because of the heavy bias here and that most of them are busy with college.  By the time they finish up with college they look back on their time in the program as a small bump in the road and don?t see much personal value in visiting a discussion group and would rather move on with their lives and careers.

It is helpful to get updated perspective on the schools from kids who just graduated, so we look forward to their input when they do visit.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 06:59:55 PM »
Kev (why do you people insist on typing out the full names of those you disagree with but never sign your own name, interesting!) is trying to do something good to help kids from ending up at the most abusive facilities in America. This forum has been hijacked by extremists, why do you think that nobody from the opposing side posts her anymore? This is not a discussion forum anymore.
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 08:52:58 PM »
Kev is doing the same thing as Sue, a misguided attempt to play as an informed advocate/edcon. He can't and won't protect the kids he refers to programs and it shouldn't be expected that he does(his fault that it is).

WWASPS is a bad company but certainly not the only devil. This whole "WWASPS is bad, x-program is better" song and dance is so played.
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline nimdA

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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 10:45:34 PM »
Oh and in case anyone didn't know.. I am Dan on that forum.
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am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 08:14:25 AM »
What is your last name Dan, so I can address you the same way you like to address those you disagree with?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007, 08:39:52 AM »
Quote from: ""Three Spring Waygookin""

No crying wolf now Bill after you did the same to me! Your shameless character assasination of myself by comparing me to that disgusting human being Judge Roy Boner is far worst. That vile specimen of humanity has for over 20 years been in an organization that inflicts pain and suffering on other human beings. I on the other hand fight it tooth and nail. What do I want from you? For you to get your head out of your ass and start doing your own damn leg work.

You know damn well you have a responsibility here. You are a moderator of Anti-wwasp. You speak out regularly against programs. Here I am speaking out against MCC. This isn't sheer speculation on my part either. I do have my evidence. I've encouraged you to duplicate the process. You in your PM declined to do so.

Sorry Bill but you had your chance to learn the truth about MCC. If you still want to get off your ass, get on the phone, work up a fake tear or two and com up with some mythical child who for the love of god needs MCC's help in the worst way.

Being that you've declined to do this I went ahead and confirmed my the results of my original investigation in another way. So blow it out your lazy ass for not doing the right thing and confirming for yourself the truth in the matter. Instead you've opted to attack Angela at Heal, and argue back and forth with me.

You were able to prove child abuse over the phone? That's a first...

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What sort of Al Gore douche bag liberalism twaddle is this crap? I've proved a strong case for the potential that it could happen. Excuse me for wanting to prevent a bunch of red neck yokels from beating out of kids. Again maybe you should do your damn homework. Get on the phone and make the damn call like you should have last month.

If you think children are being beaten by red neck yokels, is a phone call the best thing you could do? Call CPS and the police if you know this is the case.

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Abuse in the name of Jesus! Boy.. I tell yah I looove America! Praise the lord!!

Brother Jimbo: Bend over and grab your ankles boy! Jesus says so! Jesus says I'm gonna beat yo' Ass fo' not following the MCC Way.

Random Kid: Praise the lord and give another Brothah Jimbo!

Whack Whack Whack

So you are saying the beat boys behinds at MCC? If this is true I am as disgusted as you are. Can you provide us details, or an account from a survivor of this supposedly horrible prison camp.

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Once again do your own damn homework. Stop being lazy, pick up the damn phone and make the god damn call.

If you can't afford it, I'll be happy to mail you a calling card. Just pm me your address.

What will a phone call prove?

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Thanks for confirming you take the word of a program employee over that of someone who has actually researched the deal. By keeping this up you've betrayed every kid who is in or was in a program. Good job!

MAKE THE CALL BILL.

Were you not a program employee for multiple years yourself? So why should we believe you?

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Actually yes it does mean it should be shut down. I'm not about fair. I'm about making sure kids aren't being tortured in the name of treatment.

Again.. DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU END UP SOUNDING LIKE ANOTHER DOUCHE AL GORE LIBERAL.

MAKE THE CALL.



I'm not going to bother humoring the rest of your post until you start answering some questions.


1) Do you endorse corporal punishment in programs?

2) Should a program have an on site mental health professional?

Start there and I'll ask more later.


Have you read Bill's story? It's a lot worse than being a program staff for several years, then finally growing a conscience only after being fired after several years.
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Offline MightyAardvark

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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2007, 08:43:44 AM »
1) Incarcerating someone without due process is evil.
2) Cognitively restructuring someone without their consent, or the above mentioned due process is evil.

The "teen help" industry cannot exist without doing the above ergo the teen help industry is evil.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2007, 08:44:06 AM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Thanks for confirming you take the word of a program employee over that of someone who has actually researched the deal. By keeping this up you've betrayed every kid who is in or was in a program. Good job!

MAKE THE CALL BILL.


That is unfair. Bill has never betrayed a kid in his life by sending him to a program, and spends his time telling his horrific story to parents and anyone who wants to hear it. Guilt tripping survivors to take up your political activists stances is a failed strategy. The only people betraying kids are the owners, operators, employees of programs and those paying the tuition. This was one of the more ironic statements you come across in this debate, program staff calling the victims out on a moral high ground.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »