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Offline BuzzKill

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Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« on: March 06, 2007, 06:30:22 PM »
Romney brings in the green in redrock country

By Mark Havnes

The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated:02/22/2007 11:08:12 AM MST

ST. GEORGE -
Mitt Romney ventured to redrock country Wednesday in hopes of raking in more campaign green.
    And Dixie delivered, aides say, to the tune of $250,000 to $300,000 in what is believed to be the largest political fundraiser ever staged in southern Utah.
    "I'm blown away by the response from southern Utah," Romney said before leaving St. George for Atlanta. "The generosity, support and warm spirit [are] inspiring."
    Expensive cars crowded the parking lot of the Dixie Center, where the Republican presidential hopeful addressed enthusiastic backers who forked over $1,000 a piece for the chance to eat breakfast with him.
    After the quick meal and speech - which were closed to the press - Romney, a Mormon, reiterated to reporters his belief in God as being a quintessential quality Americans expect from their presidents.
    St. George resident Bob Lichfield, the co-chairman of Romney's Utah finance committee, said he expected the event to bring in up to $300,000 for the former Massachusetts governor's presidential campaign.
    Lichfield said former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., raised about $50,000 several years ago for John Swallow's unsuccessful congressional bid.
    "It was a big deal for [Romney] to come here," Lichfield said. "He has roots here. His great-grandfather was the architect of the [St. George] tabernacle."
    Lichfield pointed to Romney's leadership triumphs - moving Massachusetts' budget from the red to the black and steering a previously scandal-scarred 2002 Winter Olympics - as evidence of his presidential credentials.
    "He's fantastic," Lichfield said.
    Romney's speech - which touched on how he improved education and health care in the Bay State - impressed Washington County Commissioner Alan Gardner.
    "He took out some of the requirements [necessary for insurance] and, with the help of the state, made it so everyone now has [health] insurance," Gardner said. "He's going to be great."
    Iron County Commissioner Wayne Smith said Romney recognized a lot residents from neighboring Cedar City at the breakfast.
    "He was very sincere and would never be embarrassing for the country or [LDS] Church," Smith said.
    St. George resident Randy Wilkinson sees Romney as the right leader and the right time.
    "He has high moral and family values and supports entrepreneurship and the American way."
    Polls have shown Romney trailing Arizona Sen. John McCain and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani by a wide margin in the race for the Republican nomination.
    But St. George resident Ed Bowler believes Romney can close the gap.
    "He's family and business oriented and has good ideas on how to make things better," Bowler said. "I think he'll win - or at least he has a good shot."
    [email protected]
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Offline BuzzKill

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Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 06:31:54 PM »
Article published Feb 22, 2007
Romney campaigns in Dixie
# GOP White House hopeful raises $250,000

By PATRICE ST. GERMAIN
[email protected]

ST. GEORGE - During a brief fund-raising sweep through Southern Utah on Wednesday morning, Re-publican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney picked up more than a quarter of a million dollars for his campaign.

In the brief time he was at the fund-raising event at the Dixie Center, Romney also made an impression on the crowd that was there.

Carmen Snow attended the event and said Romney was "incredible" and spoke of how Romney saved the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. Under his leadership, the Paralympics that followed was the largest ever.

Snow was one of 330 people who attended the invitation-only, $1,000-a-plate breakfast organized by Robert Lichfield and Randy Wilkinson, both supporters of the Republican National Party.

Wilkinson said it would be a few days before the tally was completed, but the amount raised exceeded the $250,000 goal for the event.

Wilkinson said the United States needs an individual with great vision, high morals and family values, and with proven leadership abilities. Romney has all of those qualities, he said.

Lichfield echoed Wilkinson's sentiments and said Romney had proven himself as the chief executive officer of his own business, CEO for an international company, chair of the Olympic committee and governor of Massachusetts, where he turned a $3 billion deficit into a $1 billion surplus in just a matter of years.

"That is a result of someone who knows business, knows how to get things done and doesn't believe that government inefficiency should by covered by increased national debt or increased taxes, and that's where Mitt's at," Lichfield said.

The event was closed to the press, however, Romney met reporters briefly following the fund-raiser to answer a few questions about his religion and his reception thus far in the campaign.

Regarding religion, Romney, who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said people don't associate religion much with a political campaign.

"I think people want a person of faith to lead the country but don't particularly care about the brand of faith of that individual so long as the values the person has are American values," Romney said.

Romney said the Constitution and the rule of law - not religion - would direct him and said the reception he has received so far has been warmer than expected. He said he was "blown away" by the crowd Wednesday morning as well as the crowd the night before in Salt Lake City.

"People want not just the same faces and the same answers," Romney said. "They want new ideas and a new vision for America, and I'm convinced that the kind of transition that I would represent for this government is something the American people are going to warm to."

Although relatively unknown, Romney is quickly gaining name recognition. And as far as being able to compete with other candidates financially, he said he was off to a great start by raising $6.5 million since day one of his campaign, which was Jan. 8.

As far as settling for a lesser position, Romney said he can't think about anything other than the presidency.

"Nothing else is of interest to me at this point," Romney said.
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Offline BuzzKill

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And Sembler too ...
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 06:36:50 PM »
More practically, Romney also has attracted top Republican Jewish donors, including Mel Sembler, the former ambassador to Rome. Charlie Spies, formerly the counsellor to the Republican National Committee, is now


Full artical:

As candidates enter 2008 race, they begin courting Jewish support

By Ron Kampeas
Published: Tuesday, February 6, 2007 7:22 PM EST
WASHINGTON (JTA) -- It's a Washington ritual as reliable as the cherry blossoms, if nowhere near as pretty: Midterm congressional elections are over and aspirants for the most powerful job in the world are

throwing their hats into the race for the U.S. presidency.

Another ritual within the ritual is lining up Jewish support, and this year is no different. Some candidates are acting immediately: This month, U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) plucked Jay Zeidman, President Bush's popular Jewish outreach official, to lead his Jewish campaign.

Sometimes it's even sooner than immediately: For the past two years, Ann Lewis, who has been prominent in Jewish causes since she served as the Clinton administration's deputy communications director, has been sounding out Jewish support for Clinton's wife, U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.).

Here's a glance at the candidates and where they stand on issues of concerns to the Jewish people.

The Democrats

* U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.)

You probably won't hear all about Clinton's Jewish step-grandfather this time around. That's because she won't need to grab at Jewish straws after six years of support for Jewish causes that activists across the spectrum say is stellar.

Clinton's 2000 run for the Senate was marred by a 1999 incident in which she sat by and said nothing as Suha Arafat, Yasser Arafat's wife, accused Israel of deliberately poisoning children. Clinton and Suha Arafat embraced after the speech.

Clinton later claimed the interpreter skipped over the poisoning allegation, but she set about atoning for the gaffe. In addition to the revelation about her step-granddad, she told two different Jewish audiences within weeks of Suhagate that Jerusalem was Israel's indivisible capital.

She won solidly that year, but with less-than-enthusiastic Jewish support. By 2006, however, Jewish

support for Clinton was overwhelming and spanned the religious spectrum. Much of the money she has raised --some analysts expect her to bring in $500 million by election time -- has come from Jewish donors.

Pro-Israel lobbyists say Clinton's voting record on issues related to funding for Israel and isolating its enemies, including Iran and Syria, has been top notch, and she has visited the country multiple times since

becoming a senator. On domestic issues, too, she is reliably pro-choice and backs increased federal involvement in health care, stances that reflect the majority U.S. Jewish opinion.

Her supporters say one area where Clinton has strengthened Jewish support might offer a clue to how she

plans to overcome overwhelming conservative opposition to her candidacy, a residue of the 1990s culture wars: She seeks imaginative legislative solutions to get funding to parochial institutions while not skirting church-state divisions.

* U.S. Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.)

As the lead Democratic spokesman on foreign policy -- Biden chairs the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee -- his rhetoric on Israel at times has been tough.

Biden repeatedly has suggested that Israel and the United States ?blew it" in the summer of 2003 by not sufficiently backing Mahmoud Abbas, who was then the Palestinian Authority prime minister. Abbas eventually quit because P.A. President Yasser Arafat frustrated his efforts to make peace with Israel, but he also accused Israel and the United States of failing to provide concessions that might have helped him confront Arafat.

Pro-Israel advocates say there's a substantial gap between Biden's rhetoric and how he ultimately votes: He has a solid pro-Israel voting record and was a leader of the successful effort last year to pass the Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act, which isolates the Palestinian Authority's Hamas leadership as long as it backs terrorism and refuses to recognize Israel.

Biden, like many other leading Democrats, has been reluctant to sign on to efforts to isolate Iran as long as it poses a nuclear threat, preferring to keep channels open to the Islamic republic.

* U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.)

Much of Obama's current appeal has to do with his vocal opposition to the Iraq war in 2002-03, when he was a state senator in Illinois, at a time when it was not popular to oppose the war.

Arab Americans initially held out hopes that his iconoclasm extended to Israel-Palestinian issues. During the 2004 primaries, Obama said Bush had neglected the region, and in private conversations with Arab-American donors he reportedly said he favored a more ?even-handed" U.S. approach between Israel and the Palestinians.

Since then, however, Obama has cultivated a solidly pro-Israel record, and he visited the Jewish state last year. He has developed close ties with Chicago's Jewish community, and some of its major donors backed him among more than a dozen candidates -- some Jewish -- in the 2004 primaries.

* John Edwards

The appearance by the former Democratic senator from North Carolina at last year's American Israel Public Affairs Committee's policy forum was the first substantial sign that he was considering another run for the White House after he failed in his 2004 bid to win the Democratic primary and then the vice presidency. The millionaire trial lawyer had focused almost exclusively on his ?two Americas" theme in combating poverty and advocating for universal health care in his primaries campaign, and Republicans cast him as a lightweight on foreign policy.

He drew loud applause when he endorsed AIPAC's trademark issue: isolating Iran as long as it resists

nuclear transparence.

?For years I have argued that the United States has not been doing enough to deal with the growing threat in Iran," he said. ?While we've talked about the dangers of nuclear terrorism, we've largely stood on the sidelines

as the problems got worse. I believe that for far too long, we've abdicated our responsibility to deal with the Iranian threat to the Europeans."

Such talk has helped draw major Jewish donors to Edwards' campaign. He raised eyebrows late last year, however, when he named as his campaign director David Bonior, a former Michigan congressman noted for his

tough criticism of Israel.

Bonior and Edwards reached out to top pro-Israel figures and assured them that Bonior's role would not extend to foreign policy.

* New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson

Richardson is a well-known commodity in the Jewish community, dating from his service in the Clinton administration, first as United Nations ambassador and then as energy secretary. The first Hispanic American

considered to be a viable candidate for president, Richardson has maintained an international profile even in his role as New Mexico governor; most recently he earned Jewish kudos for negotiating a temporary cease-fire in Darfur,

the area of Sudan ravaged by government allied militias. U.S. Jews have led the efforts to expose the Darfur

genocide.

Others:

* Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) is probably the toughest critic of Israel among Democratic candidates.

This month he will be a featured speaker at a conference of Sabeel, a pro-Palestinian group, and in recent years he has consistently abstained or voted against pro-Israel measures. Kucinich maintains close ties with some dovish Jewish groups, and at times has challenged his ideological compatriots, once saying he was never convinced that Yasser Arafat gave up on his dream of eliminating Israel.

Kucinich's candidacy is perhaps the longest shot this year, but he has accrued foreign policy credibility for

opposing the Iraq war from the outset.

* U.S. Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.). Another longshot, but with a solid pro-Israel record. He told an AIPAC audience in Houston in October that he doubted the viability of a Palestinian state in the near future.

* Gov. Tom Vilsack. The former Iowa governor hopes to appeal to voters as a Democrat who won two terms in a solidly Republican state. He is close to the small pro-Israel community in his state and recently visited Israel.

The Republicans

* U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.)

McCain's Jewish strategy mirrors his broader realignment in recent years with Republicans who are loyal to President Bush, leaving behind the bloodletting of the tough 2000 primaries campaign.

In addition to Jay Zeidman, he is counting on an endorsement from the former White House liaison's father, Fred Zeidman, chairman of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and a major fund-raiser for Bush. Another likely endorser is Ned Siegel, who was the named plaintiff in the successful effort to stop the Florida recount, a

decision that placed Bush in the White House.

McCain has a solid pro-Israel record, and he has been outspoken about isolating Iran as long as it poses a nuclear threat. He made that call most recently in a satellite address at this week's Herzliya Conference and in October at an American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference.

McCain has toughened his opposition to abortion and gay marriage, positions that place him at odds with most American Jews. Yet he also has forged alliances with domestic Jewish groups on issues such as campaign-finance reform and against torture.

* Rudy Giuliani

The former New York City mayor may be the perfect Republican candidate for Jewish Americans: He's one of Israel's most vocal supporters in the United States and is unapologetically moderate on social issues like abortion and gay marriage.

Giuliani has been circumspect about his candidacy in recent weeks. He has performed well in polling because of the reputation as ?America's mayor" that he earned after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, but he's seeking strategies to reconcile his moderation on social issues with the conservative Republican base.

Still, he is assembling a formidable campaign team, including Jeff Berkowitz, another former White House

liaison to the Jewish community, as research director.

Giuliani had overwhelming Jewish support as New York mayor from 1993 to 2001, once booting Yasser Arafat out of a concert hall: The federal government may need to deal with the once and future terrorist, Giuliani said, but he did not.

Giuliani has visited Israel multiple times, and formed a fast friendship with his Jerusalem counterpart at the

time, Ehud Olmert, who is now Israel's prime minister.

Giuliani's closeness to Israel did not end once he left politics. In his final days as mayor, he rejected a $10 million donation from a Saudi prince because the giver blamed the Sept. 11 attacks in part on U.S. support for Israel.

In 2004, delivering the keynote speech at the Republican convention in New York, Giuliani emphatically noted Bush's outspoken support for the Jewish state.

* Gov. Mitt Romney

Romney passed on a bid for a second term as Massachusetts governor to get started on the Republican nomination this year. He wasted no time in making clear his message of solid support for Israel.

That's because however well governors perform on domestic issues -- and Romney made significant

inroads with the liberal Jewish community in the Boston area -- they need to act quickly to establish foreign policy credentials.

Romney was one of four candidates to address the Herzliya Conference, but the only one to do so in person. He spoke forcefully about isolating Iran as long as it poses a nuclear threat, noting that he refused to provide police protection for its former president, Mohammad Khatami, when he spoke in the Boston area last year.

He also called for the indictment of Iran's current president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, on genocide charges.

?The United States should lead this effort," Romney said. ?The full title of the Genocide Convention is the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Remember that word `prevention.'' Ahmadinejad has called repeatedly for the destruction of Israel and has denied the Holocaust.?

More practically, Romney also has attracted top Republican Jewish donors, including Mel Sembler, the former ambassador to Rome. Charlie Spies, formerly the counsellor to the Republican National Committee, is now

the Romney campaign's counsel.

Nancy Kaufman, who directs the Jewish Community Relations Council in the Boston area, said Romney earned community admiration for shepherding universal health care through the legislature and for his solidly pro-Israel credentials. But she said some were disappointed by his rightward drift on social issues like abortion, embryonic stem-cell research and gay marriage. As a Senate candidate in 1994, Romney had tacked left on such issues.

Others:

* U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) is a leader on pro-Israel issues, especially relating to Israel's claim to Jerusalem. He also is strongly conservative on social issues like abortion, gay marriage and embryonic stem-cell research, but he has earned respect among some liberal Jewish groups for leading his party into advocacy on behalf of Darfur, the area of Sudan ravaged by government-allied militias.

* Newt Gingrich. The former speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives has a stellar pro-Israel record

and was the architect of the 2004 campaign strategy of reaching out to Jewish voters by emphasizing President

Bush's pro-Israel record.

* U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) and U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.). Both candidates are identified with strong anti-immigrant sentiment in their party, positioning themselves against broad-based Jewish

community support for a degree of amnesty for illegal immigrants. Tancredo also is an isolationist and has opposed foreign assistance, although both candidates have solidly supported measures isolating terrorists and their supporters.

Rachel Mauro, JTA's Washington intern, contributed to this report.
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Offline Anonymous

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Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 06:37:07 PM »
Quote
Romney, a Mormon


That ends his hope for winning the election right there.

Next.
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Offline Anonymous

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Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2007, 06:42:20 PM »
We have a little emergency here....We were boiling some potatoes and we dip them in vaseline, and shoot them at each other, and Bobbie was looking back making sure it was lined up with his ass, and it shot him right in the fucking eye!!
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Offline Deborah

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Re: Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 11:47:46 AM »
Quote from: ""BuzzKill""
Romney's speech - which touched on how he improved education and health care in the Bay State - impressed Washington County Commissioner Alan Gardner.
    "He took out some of the requirements [necessary for insurance] and, with the help of the state, made it so everyone now has [health] insurance," Gardner said. "He's going to be great."


Oh, what a thoughtful, caring guy. Everyone has insurance, whether they want it or not, because he made it MANDATORY. I'm sure the insurance industry just loves him.

From the AARP Bulletin July/August 2006

MASSACHUSETTS
Mandatory Health Care Coverage for all residents
Uninsured must buy coverage by 1 July 07
Individuals who do not comply will lose their personal Tax exemption in 07
and will face fines of 50% of the monthly cost of insurance for each month without it.
Will not be compelled to buy insurance if they can't find affordable coverage. ["Affordable" not yet defined]
Early Estimates- $300 Individual $600 Couple
Comprehensive for a family currently $12-14,000 annually
All employers required to offer insurance or contribute $295 annually for each uninsured employee
"Subsidized" premiums on sliding scale for those with incomes of up to 300% of the federal poverty level

"The law will force you to purchase either something you can't afford or something you can afford but which will be nearly useless in the actual coverage it offers."~ David Himmelstein MD, Assoc Professor of medicien at Harvard

Ben, a 23 year old sales assistant earning $25,000 a year in Mass, has been uninsured since he graduated high school. Five years later, he has considerable debt from bills for appendicitis, mono, and bronchitis, but says health insurance is still "astronomically too much money."
Offered two jobs that were less money but great benefits, he chose a higher paying job with no insurance because "I'd have to pay so much out of my check each week that I wouldn't be able to pay my other bills."
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 8fe#207367

Update:
The state's poorest ? single adults making $9,500 or less a year ? will have access to health coverage with no premiums or deductibles.

Those living at up to 300 percent of the federal poverty level, or about $48,000 for a family of three, will be able to get health coverage on a sliding scale, also with no deductibles.

The vast majority of Massachusetts residents who are already insured could see a modest easing of their premiums.

Individuals deemed able but unwilling to purchase health care could face fines of more than $1,000 a year by the state if they don't get insurance.

Romney pushed vigorously for the individual mandate and called the legislation "something historic, truly landmark, a once-in-a-generation opportunity."

One goal of the bill is to protect $385 million pledged by the federal government over each of the next two years if the state can show it is on a path to reducing its number of uninsured.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has threatened to withhold the money if the state does not have a plan up and running by July 1.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Oz girl

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Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 05:57:17 PM »
This going to sound like a stupid question but what is the significance of the jewish vote over any other cultural group?
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 06:14:07 PM »
Large cities tend to have large Jewish populations. There are more Jews in NY NY than in Israel, for example. If you can hold them as a block of votes, it can certainly push a candidate over the edge in a close race. My guess is that this can be a significant factor in coveted states like New York, Florida and California. I could be wrong, but I would aslo guess it is a bit easier for the Jewish vote to be held together in a block, than split; as with some other cultural groups.
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Offline Anonymous

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Romney, Bob Lichfield connection
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 06:16:31 PM »
It's not right what you did to my beautiful horse-faced boy! I'm gonna come down there and kick you in your cunt you sick bitch!
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Offline Anonymous

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Romney
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 07:20:30 PM »
Listen I would never vote for him being a loyal Democrat but when Mitt Romney was Governor of MA he was big on licensing and oversight of residential schools and allowed folks to chase Desisto out of town..   Again no vote from me but he was on our side on this issue.  Also I wouldn't want him to win at all but wouldn't want him to lose just because he is a Mormon..
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 07:55:26 AM »
Quote from: ""Buzz Kill""
Large cities tend to have large Jewish populations. There are more Jews in NY NY than in Israel, for example. If you can hold them as a block of votes, it can certainly push a candidate over the edge in a close race. My guess is that this can be a significant factor in coveted states like New York, Florida and California. I could be wrong, but I would aslo guess it is a bit easier for the Jewish vote to be held together in a block, than split; as with some other cultural groups.

I think what you meant to say, is there are more Jews in the US, than in Israel.

1. USA    6,500,000

2.  Israel: 4,950,000        

Metropolitan Tel Aviv, with 2.5 million Jews, is the world's largest Jewish city. It is followed by New York, with 1.9 million, Haifa 655,000, Los Angeles 621,000, Jerusalem 570,000, and southeast Florida 514,000.
source
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ ... lation.htm

Quote
This going to sound like a stupid question but what is the significance of the jewish vote over any other cultural group?


Within the Jewish community, the main political issue is providing security, financial and material support to Israel. Many Jews fund and participate in the Zionist movement to bring the Jews in diaspora back to their homeland. With the recent rise of evangelicalism in this country, this is now mainstream political thought. Practically though, very, very few American Jews are willing or want to move to Israel, and American Jews are becoming distasted of supplying settlers and fundamentalists which seems to create more violence and bloodshed. Without America's help, Israel would have a fight on it's hands it might not survive. The christians are probably more serious about protecting Israel than many american jews are at the moment.

87 percent of Jews vote Democrat
By Yitzhak Benhorin  November 8, 2006
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/9818.htm
 
Democratic Party wins largest percentage of Jewish support since 1994. Elections expert: Jews voted for candidates good for Israel, but also focused on other issues

American Jews expressed flagrant support for Democratic candidates for Congress, contributing to a turnaround in the House of Representatives. According to a CNN sampling of voters, 87 percent of Jewish voters voted Democrat.

This was the highest percentage of support for Democrats since the Republicans took over Congress in 1994.


The Republican Party tried to frighten Jewish voters during the election campaign, primarily with their ads in Jewish newspapers, but no one was buying.

In this election, Jews voted for candidates they thought would be good for Israel, but not necessarily the ones who would be the best for Israel, said Steve Rabinovich, an elections expert who served in the White House during the Clinton era.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 04:01:53 PM »
bump.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007, 04:15:17 PM »
///I think what you meant to say, is there are more Jews in the US, than in Israel. ///

Actually - I meant to say Jerusalem (sheepish grin) I guess in my head the issues surrounding Jerusalem and Israel are so interconnected I can unintentionally substitute one for the other.
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