Author Topic: Split from ASR: Private School or RTC  (Read 11619 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« on: March 01, 2007, 04:05:27 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
if the parents didn?t receive the services they paid for and their kids were abused


This is logically impossible. ("if not A" AND "if A")
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2007, 04:11:57 PM »
Quote
This is absurd. In what public or private school are the kids forbidden to speak to family for months on end? Name one.

My point is there are varying degrees of restriction.  Your child can not speak to you during school hours in many schools, except during lunch.  When I went to school you couldn?t use the phone unless you went to the principal?s office and used his phone.  Many summer camps restrict the use of phones, kids would go on outward bound trips for months and only communicate a few times back home.

Quote
Uh, sounds good on paper, but when there's no mechanism to report abuse, the kid is shit out of luck. Also, the parents are manipulated so heavily by the program that if there kid complains to them, they are not believed. Often kids will not risk angering their parent or the program out of fear that they will be kept longer.

Your excuses just don't cut the mustard, Who.


I am not making excuses, just indicating that if abuse occurred the kids would tell their parents, if at anytime when they got home, if that is where they felt safer.  The relationship between parents and child is much more open and honest after the family goes thru some of these processes that these types of things would be openly discussed, just stands to reason.  All it takes is a few incidents and the schools would close down under litigation.  After 2 decades there is enough "lack of incidences evidence" to indicate that many of these places are safe.  Something would have surfaced, after 20 years, if there was a systemic problem.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2007, 04:33:44 PM »
Arent most kids at summer camp for 6 weeks at an absolute max? Dont most write unsensored as often as every day?
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2007, 04:55:22 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Arent most kids at summer camp for 6 weeks at an absolute max? Dont most write unsensored as often as every day?

Its closer to 4 weeks these days I believe oz girl,  and kids can sit in their bunks at night and write letters or write in their diary/journal.  They typically have a phone somewhere available for emergencies, but the kids are restricted from using it usually.
A neighbor kid went away on a teen outward bound type trip to Chile for 2 months and I dont think he could call more than once a week.
I know these may seem abusive/ restrictive to some but I was subjected to the same thing when I was young and I think many other parents were too.  I think it is viewed as more of a hardship today because of all the cell phones kids have and the ability to call people 24/7.  But not having a phone really isn?t abusive.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2007, 05:37:16 PM »
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But not having a phone really isn?t abusive

Ya know, Who, you run around making excuses (and saying theu're not excuses, BTW) for programs all day every day and the way you do it is to make utterly false analogies and then boil it down to a stupid conclusion not related to the premises of the statement you are trying to invalidate.

See above.  We were talking about coerced "treatment" in a facility that the kids cannot leave, separated by distance and design, unable to write letters without being forced to write what tha facility says to, no telephone, no calls to home allowed, and no mechanism by which to report abuse.

And this is what your response is???

Quote
But not having a phone really isn?t abusive


What fucking planet are you on?  You really are an asshole, you know that?
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2007, 07:17:26 PM »
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See above. We were talking about coerced "treatment" in a facility that the kids cannot leave, separated by distance and design, unable to write letters without being forced to write what tha facility says to, no telephone, no calls to home allowed, and no mechanism by which to report abuse.

And this is what your response is???

No, No?.We were talking about regulation and why a business would seek it out and impose it on themselves.  And someone wrote in:

 Deborah wrote:
Quote
?.A program should do it because they are caring for a hundred or more kids who are not 'related' to them and subjecting them to god knows what, restricting communication with parents and the outside world.


I was indicating that restricting communication, in itself, is not abusive and sited a few examples on which I based my thoughts and conclusions.  I am not excusing any practice by saying this.

Lets flip it over and take a look at it your way.  Give every kids a cell phone and allow them to use it, at will, with unlimited hours, this could become abusive to other students and the teacher who are trying to listen and learn.  How would this work out?  Personally I would have concerns sending my child to a place that allowed this.  Then if you told the kids they couldn?t use their phones during class time, this would be considered a restriction.  How about a restriction disallowing a student to write a letter home while the teacher is speaking?  Would this be too harsh and who is to decide?

I think there is a time and place for communication; too much access to phones/writing may be bad and too little may be bad also.  But where do we draw the line?  Where does it become abusive?

The school doesn?t feel it is abusive and neither do the parents so why would they seek out oversight to regulate what they do?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 07:36:50 PM »
One of the following is true:

1. TheWho is intentionally trying to cloud the issue

2. He/she/it honestly cannot tell the difference between allowing a kid to use a cell phone 24/7 and letting the kid call his parents without being listened in on once a day.

Either way, parents, you can all stop reading now. You now know the kind of people you're going to deal with if you make the horrible, perhaps fatal mistake of sending your kid to ASR. DON'T.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2007, 07:53:49 PM »
Milk,
The parents know their own child?  if the kid is being raped or abused by half the counselors she can just say ?Look Mom, the counselors are full of crap, they are raping me, come get me tonight or I am going to walk away on my own, you can find me at the local police station or hospital, goodbye?

Do you think the counselor can convince the parent that their child is just over reacting and to just have a good nights sleep??

Do you think this can happen over and over again and not make the headline news?  Fox news would love to feature this stuff, any news agency would (even if it were half true).  But it is not, we know that because parents would shut these places down in a heart beat if they even used language they hear here on fornits against them!  You expose a kid to a book which discusses a family with same sex parents in the local public school system and heads start to role and litigation follows!!

Imagine what would happen if a kid got raped or abused on a Therapeutic boarding school or all places!!  Talk about a story and headlines!!  They have been operating for decades???.
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2007, 08:35:39 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Milk,
The parents know their own child?  if the kid is being raped or abused by half the counselors she can just say ?Look Mom, the counselors are full of crap, they are raping me, come get me tonight or I am going to walk away on my own, you can find me at the local police station or hospital, goodbye?

Do you think the counselor can convince the parent that their child is just over reacting and to just have a good nights sleep??

Do you think this can happen over and over again and not make the headline news?  Fox news would love to feature this stuff, any news agency would (even if it were half true).  But it is not, we know that because parents would shut these places down in a heart beat if they even used language they hear here on fornits against them!  You expose a kid to a book which discusses a family with same sex parents in the local public school system and heads start to role and litigation follows!!

Imagine what would happen if a kid got raped or abused on a Therapeutic boarding school or all places!!  Talk about a story and headlines!!  They have been operating for decades???.


** Deception of parents by program staff is the norm not the exception.

** Abuse in programs happens regularly.

1) Kids beg their parents for help regularly in programs.

2) Parents go to program with the complaints.

3) Programs warn parents about manipulation.

4) Kids get left in program and are consquenced for manipulation.

Happens alot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2007, 08:40:16 PM »
You were way too easy on him, TSW.

Jesus Who, have you even been reading the same forum we are? Kids can just run away? Kids can call home anyway? Have you even seen what happens? The "counselor" is standing over the kid the whole time, and may even be conference called-in, ready to hit the terminate-call button the moment the kid starts talking about things like that, and reassure the parent that none of it is true and it's all just manipulation. Do you not know this? Or do you just not care?

The only way out of ASR is either to kill or permanently maim someone (and I'm seriously surprised more staff members aren't blinded by knives in eyeballs), or commit suicide.
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 08:47:26 PM »
I'm still on vacation so can't be arsed to bother myself to much to be dealing with someone you all should no better than to be argueing with.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 09:03:25 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
You were way too easy on him, TSW.

Jesus Who, have you even been reading the same forum we are? Kids can just run away? Kids can call home anyway? Have you even seen what happens? The "counselor" is standing over the kid the whole time, and may even be conference called-in, ready to hit the terminate-call button the moment the kid starts talking about things like that, and reassure the parent that none of it is true and it's all just manipulation. Do you not know this? Or do you just not care?

The only way out of ASR is either to kill or permanently maim someone (and I'm seriously surprised more staff members aren't blinded by knives in eyeballs), or commit suicide.



Whoa?.Milk you were okay until you started describing a specific school, you know absolutely nothing about ASR (or most of these schools by listening to your response), you should talk to a graduate.   Yes, kids can just run away if they like, there are no fences, my daughter attempted to run away that?s how I know.  She was talked back to school by a counselor where she asked if she could call me , which she did.  We spoke for about half an hour and then I called back and spoke to her counselor.  There is no conferencing when the kids call home, no kill switch.  The counselor (or a counselor) is in the room but there are many kids calling their parents at the same time ( I remember hearing other kids in the back ground).  I also used the room to call home myself during one of my visits.  The kids communicate fine and openly with their parents?.you are thinking of another place my friend.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 09:03:40 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I am not making excuses, just indicating that if abuse occurred the kids would tell their parents, if at anytime when they got home, if that is where they felt safer.  The relationship between parents and child is much more open and honest after the family goes thru some of these processes that these types of things would be openly discussed, just stands to reason.


None of that can be assumed or proven. One can NOT assume their child will tell them anything about the program after 12-24 months of intense daily conditioning.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 09:04:26 PM »
Not having a phone for 6 weeks when there is other non censored education I agree is non abusive. Having all contact monitored for 18 months allows abuse to flourish.
Who keeps mentioning no private company would want regulation and i agree. (before anyone thinks i have been injecting crack keep reading)
THIS IS WHY IT IS VITAL. No company is gong to put the needs of the kid before profit without being made to as it puts duty to sdhareholders before duty to the creater good. This is why there need to be enforcable laws.
Who also forgets that most private schools have to follow laws and regs in most countries. None object because parents are suspicious of places that feel they are above the law of the land! It alarms me that PPL dont feel this way about the industry
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline nimdA

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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 09:13:38 PM »
It is more vital yall stop fucking bothering with the Boo. I can't see how its possible that you sad fucks find the time to even wipe your own ass after dropping a healthy shit with all the typing you all have been banging out in this orgy of mutual clusterfuckery.
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