Breaking my heart

[Anonymous]

guys STOP!!!!!

 Why do you assume its just guys and not gals?

For crying out loud, do you wnat her to come over here or not?

Not. What purpose would it serve? So she can be trolled and fucked with endlessly until she figures out what this forum is about, and that people who post here have no patience with ignorant potential program parents? Probably make her more eager to send junior away.

i am in contact with the mum, you are wrong, she doesn't want to send her daughter away,

Well then what is the issue?


 

that is the issue, she doesn't want her to go, she wants to get her help while keeping her at home....she is a confused and desperate mum, she is not stupid, she doesn't know what happens at programs, she only knows how wonderful they are painted to be

Send her a few links via email to your favorite threads here at fornits describing programs. Send her links to isaac, and all the other websites. There is so much information out there, it would take years to sift through it all. All she has to do is read, we don't need to know anything from her to advise her of the dangers of programs.

Stop the negative vibes

This is a progrma survivor forum mainly where people post about imprisonment, torture, mind rape, abuse, shit like that. The topic is what breeds negative vibes. This isnt a forum about our favorite vacations at Disneyland.

and welcome the mum over here, she'll only find out what her options are if she feels comfortable talking about the problem,

From what she said, the only problem is her own ignorance. That is solved through education and reading. What point is a thread, so all the fornits experts can bash her about what an idiot she is for considering programs? What purpose would that service, come on.

not everyone's as thickerd skinned as me and will plough on regardless,

That's a shame that they take their child's welfare so lightly. They should take more responsibility about who they entrust their loved ones too. I know I do, but then again I've seen what seemingly nice people are capable of behind closed doors.

you're venomous comments aren't going to encourage her to post here or even read further than what she sees in this thread!

Good. Better she doesn't read what is posted here. This is us just bullshitting late on a saturday night about this mother. If you haven't realized this is what happens on fornits on a daily basis, you are never going to figure it out I am afraid. You don't need a group of people trying to convince you that programs are bad, when an entire website is filled with first person tales telling as much, along with dozens of other websites warning the same thing.

use your common sense and help me to help this girl and her family work it out without her ending up dead in some wilderness program

You can save a generic email with two dozen good links, a general write up about the dangers of programs and the alternatives. Then save that file and when you see a potential program parent post on ST or somewhere else, email that to them. That's what I do, and it works fine. I never post parents family problems on this forum (unless I am making fun of them) or tell them to start a thrad here. I hate this forum sometimes because of the tone, and I am a program survivor. I dont think this is the forum to see as an activism forum, or advice forum to bring parents to. I think it's a forum where people who were burned by an insidious and abusive industry congregate because it's the busiest bar so to speak, and the most lively. If you walk into a biker bar wanting to find out why your son joined the local gang, would you expect them to sit down with you and have tea and crumpits and turn down the music? I wouldn't. Take it for what it is, don't assume it's anything more though... it could backfire!

jees you make me so fucking mad sometimes.

That's what I'm here for.

[Anonymous]

Why is it so essential that parents come to this forum to discuss their family problems openly, and most likely get ridiculued (like everyone who posts here including prorgam survivors and anyone else), in front of strangers? Smacks me as somewhat program like, if you know what I mean. We might be used to it but these parents sure aren't, and that is the tone of this entire forum. So it seems very counterproductive to bring parents here and start a thread about them. If it were me, I would be sending email, and having private conversations with these parents... maybe thats something I already do. Maybe its even more effective than these town hall type threads where everyone clears their issues for the day and giving armchair psychology advice to everyone else. Sure, it's fun, but if someone like exhausted is serious... I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Email can do wonders!

Something to be said for this and its why I tend to defend parents who are sincere. You have the Karen In Dallas sorts who are total trash and shouldn't be arsed. Karen by the way the woman who would be Queen of Fornits and Struggling Retards has now begun to recant on her previous admissions that Carlbrook isn't quite what she thought it would be. Not that anyone who has experienced her before is at all surprised by this, but it is none the less amusing to see yet another one of her artarded ploys go down in flames.

I try to stay away from giving psychological advice myself given the fact that I am neither a parent or a professional counselor. I have a pretty good idea what won't work.

I agree though that the majority of these conversations are better held via email or instant messenger. The anons can take a toll on parents who are to big of dipshits not to take text on a computer screen seriously. I've never understood how people can take shit printed on an internet forum to heart. You really can't get to know the true nature of a person via online means. To really get to know a person you have to do it face to face. It is for this reason I don't let text bother me. It is also for this reason why I don't really concern myself with parents or anyone for that matter who starts bawling like a baby when someone takes a chomp out of their hide with a few nasty posts.

Really.. If you've that little of a grasp on reality that you can't look at text and laugh about it then you must be a pretty sad person. I feel for your family and your coworkers. Must be hard to be around a person so horridly humorless. Must be hellish to be the child of this sort of person. If a parent let harmless text roll of their back then their kids are truly hosed.  and I only see bad things in their future. Bad things from parents who aren't firing with all their mental pistons in the first place.

Very well said, TSW.

[Charly]

But wrong.
I am not at all recanting anything I said about the program my son attended. I just chose, for obvious reasons, to not share as much of my opinions on this particular forum.  I would be glad to reply privately to anyone, and my views on the plusses and negatives of the program were stated quite clearly on ST before I deleted most of my old posts on that forum.  I stand by everything I said, and psy, for one, has a good archive of all my posts.

[Anonymous]

But wrong.
I am not at all recanting anything I said about the program my son attended. I just chose, for obvious reasons, to not share as much of my opinions on this particular forum.  I would be glad to reply privately to anyone, and my views on the plusses and negatives of the program were stated quite clearly on ST before I deleted most of my old posts on that forum.  I stand by everything I said, and psy, for one, has a good archive of all my posts.

What's your point?

[exhausted]

Yup yup you're all right in what you're saying, I know that and so do you, but a desperate parent doesn't, she/he/they are in panic, they are about to be convinced their child is going to die unless they remortgage their houses and sell their souls to the devil in order to save their kids' lives

Think about it, what would YOU do if you were that parent.....trust me, I know what i nearly did, Fornits possibly saved my son's life, I'm not kidding, if I hadn't had come here - there's a strong possibility my boy would be in your country or jamaica (there for the grace of God go I) and I'd be happily thinking I'd done him the biggest favour of his lifetime!!

People don't know what happens because the experts tell them it's all good, why wouldn't you trust the expert? Come on! be realistic, I didn't even think to look up wether there was child abuse issues at places like this because in no way would it be allowed to happen in a civilised country right?? Wrong......
If your agenda is to make sure this never happens to another kid, then put your poison away and speak with this mum, show her the way, Christ people you did it for me and my son, why is it so hard to do it for her? The mum in question is not a lazy poisonous retard who can't be bothered to look after her kid, she's scared, she doesn't know what to do, she wants to help, and right now she's being driven straight towards people who will tell her what to do .... what's your agenda? Decide, do you want to help this kid or not? And by helping, I mean helping her to get her ife together without having to run away from her family and live a more miserable existence than she is now - this can only be done through helping mum to know what she could face before making any decisions

[Anonymous]

I think we have the same goal in mind, just a different strategy. I am all for telling this parent the horrors of the industry, the truth about ST posters and their pro-program agenda, the tales of abuse and death and torture that occur behind closed doors with the complicit approval of the 'ignorant' crowd... we agree on all that. I just think it's more effective to communicate with these parent privately, rather than trying to publically shame someone into making the "right" decision. Maybe I don't have an agenda, maybe I do... but it certainly does not include becoming a self righteous maniac like the ones I can't get out of my dreams, from my childhood and program experiences. I just can't take that role, but if you can, I am all for it. I am glad you found this forum helpful, but like you said, you seem to be able to handle the tone and pace of this forum more than most parents. A running inside joke with myself is the fact so many of the people posting here that never been in a program/cult don't see how similar their words/behavior/arguments actually are to those of other fundies sometimes. The information is here, but trying to stuff it down the throat of an already shaken parent, what's that going to do? Like you said, everyone here has an agenda. Well, some of those people's agendas is to create chaos and twist and manipulate other people's most intimate experiences for their own pleasure or boredom. Where else do you see that kind of behavior? Mea culpa, because I do it too... a sad reminent of my program days I suppose.

[Froderik]

People don't know what happens because the experts tell them it's all good, why wouldn't you trust the expert? Come on! be realistic, I didn't even think to look up wether there was child abuse issues at places like this because in no way would it be allowed to happen in a civilised country right??

WOW.

[Froderik]

I think we have the same goal in mind, just a different strategy. I am all for telling this parent the horrors of the industry, the truth about ST posters and their pro-program agenda, the tales of abuse and death and torture that occur behind closed doors with the complicit approval of the 'ignorant' crowd... we agree on all that. I just think it's more effective to communicate with these parent privately, rather than trying to publically shame someone into making the "right" decision. Maybe I don't have an agenda, maybe I do... but it certainly does not include becoming a self righteous maniac like the ones I can't get out of my dreams, from my childhood and program experiences. I just can't take that role, but if you can, I am all for it. I am glad you found this forum helpful, but like you said, you seem to be able to handle the tone and pace of this forum more than most parents. A running inside joke with myself is the fact so many of the people posting here that never been in a program/cult don't see how similar their words/behavior/arguments actually are to those of other fundies sometimes. The information is here, but trying to stuff it down the throat of an already shaken parent, what's that going to do? Like you said, everyone here has an agenda. Well, some of those people's agendas is to create chaos and twist and manipulate other people's most intimate experiences for their own pleasure or boredom. Where else do you see that kind of behavior? Mea culpa, because I do it too... a sad reminent of my program days I suppose.

People should learn to keep their agendas in their pants where they belong! ::bwahaha::

[Karass]

"My child has a stubbed toe. Anyone know where I can get her foot amputated?"

I like your analogy, and sadly, it applies to many parents and not-so-fucked-up-teens that get sucked into programs. These cases are no-brainers.

The tougher cases, though, go something like this: "My child's foot has been amputated. Anyone know where I can go to make sure she doesn't bleed out?" Programs aren't the answer for them either, or for anyone. But answering the question of what to do and who to turn to is a lot tougher.

[Anonymous]

But answering the question of what to do and who to turn to is a lot tougher.

I think that's a fallacy of parents when doing their 'research' on programs. I've got emails before basically threatening that if I don't provide some utopian alternative they are going to send their kid to the program I warned them specifically against. Who wants to deal with parents like that? I sure don't, and I feel very sorry for their kids.

There's people who go hiking on cliffs near me, and every year, without fail at least a couple of them fall off and die. There are signs warning against climbing down the cliff. Smart people don't go near the edge and heed the warning. Adventurous people bring proper shoes and experience, as well as good decision making and alertness to prevent injury, going into the experience knowing full well the consequences. Then there's the stupid people, tourists usually, or drunk college students who read the sign, laugh at it and walk on by.

The sign is there. Unless they put up a fence, and ruin the view and hike for the rest of us, there's nothing you can really do. So what do you do, plaster the cliff with signs, put up a fence.. what?

The answers are out there, some parents just don't want to hear them.

[Anonymous]

Parents that are IGNORANT enough to send their kids off to these places deserve to DIE at the hands of their own children, case closed.

[hanzomon4]

It might be better to handle this in private due to some toxic emotions here. I can't send pm's or post on the ST board but if this mum wants to here from more fornits folks just PM me and I'll give you(psy or exhausted) my email address

[Ganja]

Why all your drama? It gets old.

It sure does.

[psy]

Exhausted is right that the best thing to do is talk to the parent... as for which is worse: running away or going to a duck farm...  you know my answer to that.

[try another castle]

I dont think this is the forum to see as an activism forum, or advice forum to bring parents to. I think it's a forum where people who were burned by an insidious and abusive industry congregate because it's the busiest bar so to speak, and the most lively. If you walk into a biker bar wanting to find out why your son joined the local gang, would you expect them to sit down with you and have tea and crumpits and turn down the music? I wouldn't. Take it for what it is, don't assume it's anything more though... it could backfire!

I'd have to agree with this to some extent. We are a lively bunch, indeed.

If they want to play nice, go to the facility questions and answers forum. It's moderated. All bets are off in TTI.