Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy
Drugs on Campus
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: ""RobertBruce"" ---
--- Quote ---If he was able to use in moderation I would be delighted,
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I usually try and remain respectful for as long as possible but in this case I'm going to have to make an exception. Lady you're an idiot. With your permissive attitude of course your son was bound to become an addict. You can't allow him to use something you know to be potentially addictive (espically coupled with your family history) and then punish him when he becomes an addict.
"Now Johnny, you know I only alow you to use blow on weekends, never on a school night."
I want you to wake up. Meanwhile of course all your kid is learning at HLA is new ways to hide his drug use from you and new things to get high off of.
My advice is for you to pull your kid and place him in a wilderness program, one that you actually look into and can verify with absolute certainity is safe and obeying the law. Keep him there until he gets his head straight and then apologize for setting him on this path to begin with.
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Shut the fuck up you pissy little prick!!
Diane, I'm sorry you're going through this. I indulge myself, I'm probably one of the most liberal people here and I believe that the vast majority of parents with supposedly out of control teens are overreacting, but I also get that there are those that can't handle them. I have no idea if you're son is one of those or not but I get that you're scared. The behaviors you're describing are terrifying.
That being said, it makes you easy prey for the cultists out there and I believe HLA is a dangerous one. I don't have the answer for you...there are more qualified people here to maybe at least point you in some different directions but I wanted you to know that not all of us, from either side of the pro/anti program debate are assholes and dismissive of parental issues. I was in a program for two years so I know the damage it does but I also have two grown children now and as I've said many times before, my oldest put me through hell for a number of years. Thankfully, she's doing well now.
Good luck. It ain't an easy job.
Anne Bonney:
My PM to RB....
--- Quote ---I'm sorry, I flew off the handle. I just get so irritated with you sometimes. You're such a smart guy and you've got a lot to say but you alientate these people right off the bat. I know most of them are clueless assholes, really I do but over the last years that I've been on here, and after going through a few years of hell with my own program and hell with raising my two kids I also get that some of these parents genuinely are scared....whether or not they have reason to be. If we have any hope of changing some of their minds it doesn't make sense to attack them right out of the gate. She didn't come across to me like Karen or SHH...she seemed pretty genuine in her intent.
I'm all for blasting the shit out of the ST people, you've seen me do it plenty but I'd at least like for them to have a chance before we unload both barrells at them.
I really am sorry I flew off the handle. I'm gonna post this in the thread.
Peace.
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Antigen:
--- Quote from: ""dianedeighton"" ---Cassandra, former HLA student "guest" and Niles,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have to say and have been mulling it all over.
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Dianne, you're more than welcome. Thank you for not copping out and taking the 'experts' mollifying assurance that it's all the fault of that fucked up little prick who won't accept their 'help'. As a program vet and deserter, it sort of makes up for a little bit of that whenever I see a parent break from the herd like that. It gives me hope.
--- Quote ---Yes, as a parent I have definately screwed up and my son is the victim.
--- End quote ---
Well, I only brought that into it to say 'yeah, me too, we all do'. Now quit flogging yourself and let's try and move onto hopefully something useful.
--- Quote ---However, I'm still not convinced that the answer is to bring him home and try again. He has had many, many opportunities, but he either cannot/will not stop abusing drugs and alcohol if it is available.
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Well, I don't think you really have that much influence, far less control over if and how much your kid gets high. Sounds like your kid is having a very, very difficult time and your only choice is whether he has to deal with it with you on his side or as an enemy.
--- Quote ---Yes, it is almost impossible to stop someone who is determined to get high, but shouldn't we try?
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No, I honestly don't think so. If I were in your shoes, honestly I'd encourage him to stick with the cannabis as many times a day as need be simply because it's safer than any drug known to man. You simply can't kill yourself with the stuff. Just ask Al Robison.
Now here's what I think is the nut of the issue. I'm going to be a little harsh here because I'm just so fucking angry about it all and without apology. But I'm not mad at you or my mother or 'the authorities' or any individual or group. Just incredibly frustrated but helpless to keep slamming my head against this brick wall, hoping one or the other will finally crack and have done with it one of these times. So here goes.
--- Quote ---We tried 5 different therapists/psychiatrists -- he didn't really respond to them.
--- End quote ---
Oh yes he did! Maybe not in any way that you or the pshrink or your son or anyone else would have liked. But for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and pshrinks have a way of pushing anyone's buttones--after all, that's what they went to school to learn how to do. They're just, imho, quite clueless to the fact that they really don't know what they're doing or what the results will be.
--- Quote --- We tried every punishment/reward we could come up with. We had him go to meetings, found him a sponsor, took him to visit jail, had family member recovering addicts talk to him, anything I could think of. And yes, I'm not terribly impressed with the success rate of any substance abuse program. I readily admit my failures as a parent, but I think he knows he is loved and even if he doesn't feel it now someday he will understand that we ran out of parenting options. It may sound like BS to some of you, but I truly believe that this kid would end up dead or in jail. Maybe that prospect has lost its significance since its tossed around with impunity, but as a parent who believed it was a real possibility, keeping him safe or at least safer was the best I could do.
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Well, now again I can't blame you or my parents or any other well intended person for going along with the conventional wisdom, but that's enough to drive ya ta drinkin!
Like my friend Anne, I also spent a couple of years in a program and then had a world of trouble w/ my oldest daughter, who's now 22 and doing quite well for herself [whew!]. But I can't take credit for any of that except for one thing I think I did right. I knew when I was licked. I didn't know it because I'm so wise and smart 'n all. I knew it because I had been on the receiving end of so much 'help' when I was a young woman and, after awhile, it just became painfully obvious that I was making the same damned mistake my parents had.
Unlike Anne, my family had been in the cult for almost a decade before I landed up in a program. You'd a thunk I was the straightest damned kid there ever was, what with all the open meetings and my mother being a virtuoso at stepcraft `n all. And really I was towing a pretty straight line. My sole focus in life from the time I was about 9 or 10 was on NOT getting put in a program as my elder brothers and sisters had been. The trouble is that no human being, especially a kid, could possibly be straight enough to meet the unrealistic, simplistic and harsh standards of that fucked up cult. So I just stuffed it. I just tried to pretend that I had none of those troubling needs and emotions that normal kids go through. I thought I could just wait, tow the line and finally start being myself once I was safely past the age of majority. I'd just be a perfect little Seedling robot in the mean time. It didn't work out so well. I never did get into drugs much, just dabbled w/ pot and beer once in awhile and my rents never even knew about that, I don't think. But I was incredibly lonely, depressed and pretty near suicidal from the effort. Naturally, because they'd been in the cult for so long and completely brainwashed into the cult world view, it was a simple equation for them; any teenager who was depressed and withdrawn must, necessarily, be a druggie. Solution? Why, the Program, of course!!!
Fuck!
Sorry, yeah, I am angry and frustrated. But again, I don't blame you for listening to all of the best advice available to you. And I don't blame the people giving all this fucked up advice, either. They're well intended, if extremely obtuse. I believe that if there's a worse idea going than locking people up for unauthorized euphoria it's probably locking them up in close proximity to a bunch of well intended mindfuckers bent on helping them even if it kills them. I had that as an email signature for awhile, but it was too long, too little understood and made me most unpopular with a lot of my former friends in the drug policy reform movement. Especially that sanctimonious asshole, Richard Lake. I probably would still be contributing time and volunteer effort to MAPInc if they hadn't hitched their wagon so solidly to the 'treatment not incarceration' canard.
Anyway, at a certain point I realized that my daughter had had just about all the 'help' she could stand from me, any more was not going to do anything but further alienate her. So I quit trying to help her. I did just what my dad had done for me; I called a truce and stuck by it.
I would suggest you do the same. That means you have to accept that, no matter what you do or don't do, there are no guarantees. Your son might figure things out and be alright or not. But I guarantee that programs like HLA based on Synanon methods are NOT helpful! If there's anything you can do to be of real assistance to him you'll have to convince him that you'll never, ever try a stunt like that again.
Lacey:
--- Quote from: ""Panther"" ---Cassandra, former HLA student "guest" and Niles,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have to say and have been mulling it all over. Yes, as a parent I have definately screwed up and my son is the victim. However, I'm still not convinced that the answer is to bring him home and try again. He has had many, many opportunities, but he either cannot/will not stop abusing drugs and alcohol if it is available. I'm not sure I can agree that substance abuse is not a disease---I think its part of the problem for some people, but it is also caused by emotional pain for sure. The first time I observed my son drinking alcohol ( his father allowed it at a family party) I knew we were going to have a problem (plus, it runs in the family). His reaction was scary-- he loved it way too much and just wanted more. I actually have a fairly liberal attitude towards drugs and alcohol-- I have done my share of indulging, support legalization, donate to Drug Policy Alliance, and don't have an issue with my other kids reasonable consumption as long as they don't drive impaired, but this kid is different. We have to lock up all alcohol when he is around. We also have to hide money--I walk around with my purse when he is with me. And yes, when he can't get his substances of choice he will take whatever--mouthwash, cough syrup, huffing cans of Axe--I constantly find out about new things that can be abused (gas was a new one to me) and we try to clear out these things when he is around. He almost died of alcohol poisoning when he downed a large quantity of vodka he snagged at a relative's house-- it only took about 15 minutes--the doctor said one more shot could have been fatal. He was smoking weed before school most days (and sees nothing wrong with this ---"everyone wakes and bakes"), admits to trying/abusing various other illegal substances, crack,heroin and crystal meth are the only ones he says he hasn't done, and if so, it was just a matter of time.His predisposition to addiction made these especially scary. He admitted to shooting up coke (once). He regularly sold to others and associated with several very frightening dealers, brought them home (!), stole lots of money from lots of people, stole expensive jewelry and pawned it, and probably more that I don't know about. If he was able to use in moderation I would be delighted, life would be great for all of us---we tried that too--but moderate doesn't exist for him, unless moderate includes smoking weed more than once a day and huge amounts of alcohol.Yes, it is almost impossible to stop someone who is determined to get high, but shouldn't we try? We tried 5 different therapists/psychiatrists -- he didn't really respond to them. We tried every punishment/reward we could come up with. We had him go to meetings, found him a sponsor, took him to visit jail, had family member recovering addicts talk to him, anything I could think of. And yes, I'm not terribly impressed with the success rate of any substance abuse program. I readily admit my failures as a parent, but I think he knows he is loved and even if he doesn't feel it now someday he will understand that we ran out of parenting options. It may sound like BS to some of you, but I truly believe that this kid would end up dead or in jail. Maybe that prospect has lost its significance since its tossed around with impunity, but as a parent who believed it was a real possibility, keeping him safe or at least safer was the best I could do.
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I don't really comment much on here, but had to interject (sp?) with this one. Now I am not all against programs in general, because I have been to some that have done some good, and others that have only done harm (ahem...). So don't think my response is just because I don't think kids should ever be in a treatment environment.
But please... If your son truly has this bad of an addiction problem, and it is truly as bad as you've represented it, then HLA is NO place for him. I didn't even have drug problems, and still managed to have a good time every once and a while with "contraband". If I could get it, having no true drive or desire to attain drugs (and honestly no real savvy with it either) then imagine what your son, who very obviously has the mind of an addict and the means to make things happen, will be able to do there.
The supervision is a joke, the addictions program is a one-size-fits-all mentality with a stupid rating system as to "how addicted you truly are." And I promise you, I've seen what real support systems should look like. My mother is a 17 yr recovering alcoholic, so a lot of my childhood was spend in the back of a church basement at her meetings when she couldn't find a babysitter. I've seen people genuinely leaning on eachother for their very survival, and trust me... That just is NOT there at HLA. Someone else said it best, they've spread themselves way too thin, and addictions treatment is, in my opinion, their worst area.
So please, find somewhere that can truly help your son... Maybe a treatment center directly geared for kids with addictions, or as RB said, a wilderness program. I went to a wilderness program in Utah, and it was a great experience. But HLA is definitely not appropriate for your son. It very possibly will do more harm than good.
Anonymous:
Why are people recommending a wilderness program on Fornits? Your kids will most assuredly hate it, and it'll remind them how much they want to be back home and on drugs (and now they have a new reason- to forget the things done to them in wilderness!). If you want to break every bond you've ever had with your kid, sending him out into the wilderness with a bunch of sadistic "counselors" is a wonderful way of accomplishing this. It's just another idea that sounds good on paper if you're stupid, but doesn't work in 95% of cases, and no, your kid will not be the exception.
Also, keep your kids the hell out of Utah, period. There's no oversight. Dehydration is a great way to get your kid killed.
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