PTSD

[psy]

Crap

Sounds like the staff get as brainwashed as the kids

And end up just as dysfunctional if they have a concience

it's such a shame that you can't even say that for every 1 child who suffers a 100 are 100% helped, healthy, happy adults today, even if it were a totally true statistic, that 1 is 1 too many, it's incredibly sad, not just for the child, but for the parents, the councilors and everyone involved, this si life altering stuff  

Where I was, a CEDU clone, the staff used to go through the same workshops / Propheets the kids did, and on a more frequent basis.  With est / Lifespring, which was designed to be strong enough for adults, I'm not sure if it's really possible to avoid the brainwashing.  I don't know anybody from my "emotional growth school" who wasn't affected by it.  Once you hack somebody's conscience into thinking abuse is good, hate is love etc., almost anything is possible.

I've never understood how, after absolutely destroying so many lives the staff could continue to think they were helping people.  It's a good example of how much their concept of reality had been totally warped by exposure to the program and a constant cultist mentality.

For a while i tried to talk sense into them.  I told them "Do you really think that this tough love bullshit is helping people.  Look at the suicide attempts.   Look at the AWOLs. Look at the kids you put on the streets.  Look into their eyes."  Some kids resisted longer than others but they all broke in the end.  Once hope of leaving dies, it's over.

I'm actually quite surprised TSW was able to "snap out of it" and I wish more staff were like him.

[Anne Bonney]

Whenever I read someone's account of a Lifesteps, EST, LifeSprings or any of the other seminars, I just get the chills.  That is, to me, the most common and most dangerous part of these places.  In Straight they were just called 'raps' :roll:  (it started from The Seed which sprung up in the 70s).  We had them all day long, every day.  Before, after and in between we either recited the rules, the chain of command or sang infantile songs....all designed so that we had no time or opportunity to think for ourselves, at all.  The 'raps' were supposed to force you to see the error of your ways and then talk about how Straight was helping you change your life and how grateful you were to have them care enough about you to point out all your faults and insecurities.......in front of 300-400 people in the most humiliating and confrontational manner possible.  Break 'em down and build 'em back up.  Yeah, they break you alright.  That's for sure.  I ended up doubting every instinct I had and those instincts had brought me through some pretty tough times.  I didn't know where Straight ended and I began.  I knew what they did to me wasn't right, but I couldnt' put my finger on exactly what had happened to me.  It wasn't until I had kids of my own that I began to understand the depth of what was taken from me.  I was just talking to one of my daughters about it last night.  It's so nice to see her growing up.  She caused herself a lot fo problems for about 6 years....I didn't know if I'd live through it but she made it through and watching her learn and grow is awesome.  She's learning things about herself now at 21 that I'm just starting to at 41.  Adolescence is the most difficult time in a person's life.  That's when they start figuring out who they are.  If you start fucking around with that process, you risk huge, permanent damage.

[psy]

Whenever I read someone's account of a Lifesteps, EST, LifeSprings or any of the other seminars, I just get the chills.  That is, to me, the most common and most dangerous part of these places.  In Straight they were just called 'raps' :roll:  (it started from The Seed which sprung up in the 70s).  We had them all day long, every day.  Before, after and in between we either recited the rules, the chain of command or sang infantile songs....all designed so that we had no time or opportunity to think for ourselves, at all.  The 'raps' were supposed to force you to see the error of your ways and then talk about how Straight was helping you change your life and how grateful you were to have them care enough about you to point out all your faults and insecurities.......in front of 300-400 people in the most humiliating and confrontational manner possible.  Break 'em down and build 'em back up.  Yeah, they break you alright.  That's for sure.  I ended up doubting every instinct I had and those instincts had brought me through some pretty tough times.  I didn't know where Straight ended and I began.  I knew what they did to me wasn't right, but I couldnt' put my finger on exactly what had happened to me.  It wasn't until I had kids of my own that I began to understand the depth of what was taken from me.  I was just talking to one of my daughters about it last night.  It's so nice to see her growing up.  She caused herself a lot fo problems for about 6 years....I didn't know if I'd live through it but she made it through and watching her learn and grow is awesome.  She's learning things about herself now at 21 that I'm just starting to at 41.  Adolescence is the most difficult time in a person's life.  That's when they start figuring out who they are.  If you start fucking around with that process, you risk huge, permanent damage.

We had raps where i was too (even called em that).  but what i'm talking about is completely different.  It's basically a 24 hour marathon workshop with food and sleep deprivation, disclosure circles, trance inducing guided imagery, nlp, bioenergetics, etc etc...  It's a totally different ballgame.  Raps made you feel like shit.  These marathon workshops made you feel like shit to break you down.  Then the counselors would comfort you, after they had made you miserable, and you ended up feeling wonderful, euphoric, and just plain high, when you finished with them.  You loved your counselor after that.  It was guaranteed.  Never saw it fail.

Straight is closer to synanon's original implementation while CEDU's Mel Wasserman added Lifespring, est, to the whole mix for extra measure. Afaik, if Straight used these methods, it must have been later in their existence.  Still.  Everything seems to lead back to Synanon at some point.

I can definitely relate to not knowing exactly what they did.  That was the point.  If you could figure out what they were doing you could protect yourself from it.  If you only realized it on a subconscious level (as they wanted you to) you were fucked.

[Anne Bonney]

The food and sleep deprivation, isolation was just the daily routine at Straight.  We stayed at 'foster homes' (homes of other kids further along in the program) at night and spent 12 hours a day in 'the building', having raps and singing those stupid songs.  Mondays and Fridays were "open meetings" when the parents came.  Those days we'd spend up to 20 hours at 'the building'.  You're right, I don't ever remember anyone love any of the staff, but the premise was the same.  Break them down to build them up in Straight's image.   After anyone spoke in raps the entire group would shout "love ya so-and-so".  This included when someone would get "confronted" (the most harsh, abusive, sadistic form of 'help').  The group would spend an hour or two on this one person, completely humiliating and degrading them  and then when they sat down they got that group "love ya" and were told that the group and staff were helping them by forcing them to see just how awful they were and we'd thank them one day.

Synanon does seem to be the one common thread running through all of these places.

[Deborah]

RAPS came out of Synanon's "Game".
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30

Anne, is there a direct connection to Straight and Synanon, or was it coincidence that they called them Raps?

[psy]

RAPS came out of Synanon's "Game".
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30

Anne, is there a direct connection to Straight and Synanon, or was it coincidence that they called them Raps?

deb.  check out my website for that answer.  under the abuse section i sourced a good page on straight for some of my research.

I think you mean direct connection from Straight to CEDU.  AFAIK Raps were called "games" at Synanon.  I assume the word "rap" came from Straight <--> CEDU staff "cross contamination".  I've never really looked into where the word came from.

here you go
this link here

Yeah there's a direct connection.

Raps seems to be what everybody calls them.  It's an implimentation of Synanon's "Game".

@anne:

Yeah we had raps every day, morning and afternoon.  The workshop i mentioned was a special secret ritual nobody was supposed to talk about.  I don't think anybody every broke that rule (at least not while I was there).  The "vow of secrecy" was far far too strong.

Although most days were about breaking you down, the workshop was about loyalty.  Powerful kool-aid.

@Deb:  I interviewed jayne a week ago.  She confirmed FSW is from CEDU's propheets.  She confirmed Mel Wasserman incorporated est / Lifespring.  She thinks it's wonderful.  She couldn't shut up about how wonderful CEDU was and how many people it saved.  She also confirmed Bmark was designed after CEDU.  She denied CEDU was sued out of existance and blames it's demise on Brown school's mismanagement.  She said "they ran it into the ground".

[psy]

WTF.  "Happy Waygookin"?!?!

Why don't you just change it to "Gookie" like Deb keeps calling you (whatever that means).  I think "Gookie" sounds better anyway.

 :rofl:

[psy]

i like it.  it suits.  Why not "Darth Gookie"?

[Anne Bonney]

RAPS came out of Synanon's "Game".
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30

Anne, is there a direct connection to Straight and Synanon, or was it coincidence that they called them Raps?

Straight got it from the Seed I believe.  GregFL has been looking for a direct link between Synanon and Seed for a long time.  I don't think he's found one but it's obvious.  

It's weird.  I remember being a kid in the 70s and hearing my parents talk about EST or something like it.  Damn hippies or something like that.

[Anne Bonney]

@anne:

Yeah we had raps every day, morning and afternoon.  The workshop i mentioned was a special secret ritual nobody was supposed to talk about.  I don't think anybody every broke that rule (at least not while I was there).  The "vow of secrecy" was far far too strong.

Although most days were about breaking you down, the workshop was about loyalty.  Powerful kool-aid.

Yeeeesh :scared: .  Fucks with your trust issues in all kinds of wonderful ways.

[psy]

Yeeeesh :scared: .  Fucks with your trust issues in all kinds of wonderful ways.

Oh i don't trust anybody anymore.  Not, my parents, not any girlfriend I have had since.  Nobody.  I don't sleep much anymore either.

[Deborah]

Two characteristics of ptsd.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9

[psy]

Two characteristics of ptsd.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9

Oh i have more than just those two.  I'm extremely paranoid, and unless i'm on a plane, i'm...  well protected...

I'm far more OCD than i ever was before.  Not in an organized way but there are certain things that have to be a certain way.

I isolate.  I sit in front of my computer.  That's my life.  I hate people (being around them).  Group / raps  were overload for me.  I hate reality tv.  actually i hate tv in general.  Fucking inane, superficial shit 24 / 7.

There are certain times when i'm emotional about things but most of the time i'm pretty frigid.  This might be due to the prozac.  I feel pain, but I don't necessarily mind it.  it reminds me i'm still alive.

I can't concentrate when i think about certain experiences at bmark.  I lock up.  i freeze.  My speech pauses for no reason.  I forget where i was in my sentences.  It's so fucking hard to write about some things.  My memories of some events are scattered, full of holes.  I try to pry my mind open but it's so hard.  I remember somewhere but my mind just won't let me recall.

Somehow there is a lot of guilt inside.  I left somebody behind.  I begged my parents to help him.  Taboo it was, for me to be bi (big reason why i was sent there in the first place), and for me to have fallen for another guy.  I left him behind, and took my parent's offer of rescue.  Then he was raped on the streets after I left.  His parents stopped paying and he was dropped on the streets.  I should have been there.  I would have gutted the motherfucker who did it.

I feel guilty for not saying more earlier.  so many people i knew...

For some odd reason, I feel comfortable talking pseydonomyously on the internet but not to my shrink.  He was chosen by my parents and it's really hard for me to trust him because at benchmark, everything went back to the parents.

At this point i really don't care who knows the nitty gritty details of what happened to me.  I see very little of people anyway and most of the ones who do know me don't know about this.

Deb

your link mentioned moral codes.  At bmark they had this "coat of arms / ethics" project where you had to list your current beliefs / ethics, and they would help you create new "healthy" ones.

The more i discover the more i'm just blown over by how they can get away with this shit.  How any of these shitholes can.

At this point I think i'm finally at the "survivor mission" point.  A few years ago I wanted to fight them but my mom kept saying "just focus on school.  after you graduate you can do the benchmark thing"  after I graduated that college with an associates, she said "just leave it in the past now.  just forget about it".  I never let her push my personal life around like that before program.  Well i can't anymore.  The shit I went through is still happening.  About a month ago, i said ENOUGH.  I'm going to bring them down whatever it takes.

So then the research started, and the posting... and i'll probably get a few B's this semester... and i'll probably get yelled at for it... but i feel better now and i'm not going to stop.

[Oz girl]

I would imagine it is really difficult to find a doctor who is the right match for you first up. Perhaps you can talk to your family about letting you shop around for one better suited to you. Hang in there

[ZenAgent]

Acceptance of the program, some sort of ritualized group meeting, a stage system giving residents greater levels of power as they progress up the chain of command, unconditional compliance of staff and these people still don't think they are dealing with cults?
.

Don't forget absolute blind obedience from parents as well.