Author Topic: Father and son WC  (Read 13489 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Father and son WC
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 08:06:20 PM »
Get him on this forum and let him know what kind of concentrated evil wants to eat his soul.

(Hey, you've tried everything else, right?)
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Offline Antigen

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Father and son WC
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2007, 11:52:53 PM »
I just found this thread. Hope you're still lurking.

Here's an angle I don't think anybody's beat me to. How about taking a closer look at why you and your son, like so many of us, have such a hard time finding anything to respect in most of the people who are drawn to positions of authority? There are very good reasons. But there are better and worse ways to articulate them and to respond to them.

Check out these authors for some ideas: John Taylor Gatto.
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Offline Badad

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Yes Im around. Interesting...thanks
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2007, 10:02:36 PM »
That's a approach or angle Id never heard of.  But it does make sense.  School did seem like a prison or cult to me.  But my son "says" he likes it and is getting good grades.
  At this point of my life I feel I need to obey "the man". Iv been beat by him to many times and have learned.  But my son is completely opposite.  Small things like cleaning his room or shoveling snow only happen after a long drag down fight.  My wife starts to cry after demanding and being told no.  I step in calmly and then she screams at me.  Im walking on egg shells.  He finally does the chore 1/2 way after he sees us fight about how to deal with him.  He says he wants to spend time with me.  But I dont enjoy anything anymore.  The hobbies I loved are boring now.  And I find it hard to reward him for his behavior.

This unschool thing wouldnt work with him.

"It requires tremendous dedication and discipline to assume the responsibility that is normally entrusted to schools. If they decide to go this route, teens have to look for their own teachers and seek out classes if they can't learn something on their own. They have to think hard about what interests them and research the skills they need to accomplish it, so that they can make sure to take the necessary steps. "

My son and myself are more focused on instant gratification. Classic ADHD.  Not long term future goals.  What many would call lazy.  Then when it is to late I feel beat.  Its to late.  I find myself dreaming about life before my son was born.  I also wonder if I would still be a pothead alky.  Maybe he saved me.  But now it feels like he is destroying the family.  My wife and I are very confused and exhausted. We Havent taken a vacation for years.  If we went alone.  We would never hear the end of it.

I wish I could find FFT. And Im leaning more towards meds at this point.
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Offline Anonymous

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Father and son WC
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2007, 10:26:37 PM »
If he's getting good grades but doesn't want to talk to you or your wife, the best thing would probably be for both of you to stay the hell out of his way for a while.

You'd be surprised how quickly that can fix troubled relationships.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Father and son WC
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2007, 10:27:38 PM »
Something I learned from someone I respect a lot... condensed into a phrase.

"The best way to teach moderation to a child is to not force it upon them."

Pretty simple, eh? I basically taught myself habits behind moderation of alcohol, driving, cleaning things, food choices, etc becuase I completely disregarded what was told to me and decided on my own  :rofl: but the principle remains the same.

Remove the urge to rebel and counter you and suddenly things that are necessary become apparent and typically done by a intelligent person.

At any rate, hiking in the woods and disclosure won't fix anything, the only thing a program "Does" is break people, make them disclose everything, and do what they are told under threat.

Also, uh, when that threat is removed, they won't do what you say anymore, then grow up and learn how to decide what to do on their own... soo... see where I'm going?
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Nihilanthic

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Father and son WC
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2007, 10:31:11 PM »
Wanting to clean and knowing why you should is better and ultimately more effective than coercing it.

I think you know why.

If its arbitrary, its bullshit... if its meaningful (like picking up shit that is dangerous, frail, or valuable, or removing old clothes and food for sanitation) then they'll learn it and practice it.

MY room is messy and I'd hit you in the face with a dowel rod if you touched my shit, but it doesn't stink!
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Badad

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Father and son WC
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2007, 08:33:56 AM »
This cold weather has something to do with our cabin fever.
Its not that he doesnt want to spend time with us.  We play family games.  Hang out and watch TV together. Hes fun to be around. But when asked to do anything.  He turns into a rude, hurtful person yelling at us.  Punching holes in walls and throwing things.  Ripping picture frames off the walls etc.

I guess I need to let it go.  But I just cant get over the feeling that my wife and I are slaves for our kids.  My wife has back problems and I have wrist Tendonitis and ligement damage and we are out shoveling snow.  It just pisses me off big time! And at those moments I want to kick his ass up and down the block.
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Offline Covergaard

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Two advices
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2007, 09:59:21 AM »
Advice number one:

Print out these two articles and hang them where he can not avoid reading them. Write the phonenumber to wwasp and a teen escort firm on them with a pen:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine ... 72,00.html

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July ... laug04.msp

When he ask about them give him an answer, which he might consider as a try to explain away. Refuse to discuss the matter further but turn the dialogue into chores and schoolwork instead.

Advice number two: (If the first one does not work)

a) Rent a cabin for a weekend.
b) Write a impact letter.
c) Hire an escort company to take him for a detour before he ends up at the cabin where you have arrived before him. See too that your car is not at the cabin, so he has to stay there.
d) Use the weekend to talk the impact letter over with him

Advice number three: (If the first two advices dont work)

Wait until he is 18 and let him know that he is an adult. Tell him straight: "Now it is my way or the highway"
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Offline Deborah

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Father and son WC
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2007, 12:16:27 PM »
Quote from: ""Badad""
This cold weather has something to do with our cabin fever.
Its not that he doesnt want to spend time with us.  We play family games.  Hang out and watch TV together. Hes fun to be around. But when asked to do anything.  He turns into a rude, hurtful person yelling at us.  Punching holes in walls and throwing things.  Ripping picture frames off the walls etc.

Now, if you can't gain cooperation, how will a program? What methods will they employ to do so?
He's exhibiting extremely anti-social behavior. It's a bad habit that you've allowed him to develop. He doesn't need to be drugged for a bad habit. What are the consequences for breaking things and punching holes in the walls?
In my house, he would be responsible for replacing the things he breaks. It will require some creativity and a little assistance on your part, but he needs to be earning money that he can 'loose' when this happens. Assigning an arbitrary punishment (grounding) is indirect and teaches nothing specific to the situtation.
Same with the holes in the walls. You take him to the hardware store, he purchases the necessary items to repair the holes, and with your assistance, he repairs them.

I'd first try the 'giving perspective' approach. Make a list of all the things that have to be done in order for the house to run well. Check off everything you do that he can't, including, working in order to pay the bills. Grocery shopping, cooking, trash, laundry, cleaning, mowing, shoveling snow, etc. All household members make unpaid contributions, so ask him to select the one's he'll be responsible for, in addition to cleaning his own room.
Not negotiable, as it wouldn't be with a roommate. Would you allow a roommate to skate by with no contribution? I doubt it. If he doesn't select, then you select for him. And then you must be prepared to follow through.
Anytime we do for someone else what they can do themselves, we create an invalid- so-called 'entitlement' issues. Don't do this to you son.

Quote
I guess I need to let it go.  But I just cant get over the feeling that my wife and I are slaves for our kids.  My wife has back problems and I have wrist Tendonitis and ligement damage and we are out shoveling snow.  It just pisses me off big time! And at those moments I want to kick his ass up and down the block.


You're not a victim to your child. You may lack a backbone and persistence, but you can change that, if cooperation and assistance is what you're seeking.
Kicking his ass up and down the block, as I'm sure you're aware, will only incite more rebellion and 'teaches' nothing, except violence, something he obviously doesn't need more of.
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Offline Dr Phil

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Re: Two advices
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2007, 05:21:35 PM »
Quote from: ""Covergaard""

Advice number two: (If the first one does not work)

a) Rent a cabin for a weekend.
b) Write a impact letter.
c) Hire an escort company to take him for a detour before he ends up at the cabin where you have arrived before him. See too that your car is not at the cabin, so he has to stay there.
d) Use the weekend to talk the impact letter over with him



Escort companies should be illegal. Who;s idea is this, or is this just some internet theory being thrown around?  :-?
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It\'s time to get real!?

Offline Anonymous

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Father and son WC
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2007, 06:50:49 PM »
One more dumbass comment like that out of you, Covergaard, and I'll categorically prove to this forum what you write in your spare time, and that it is in fact you writing it.
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Offline Oz girl

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Father and son WC
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2007, 07:41:47 PM »
I agree with most of what Deborah wrote. Except for the bedroom> id just let him live in filth.
one think i note is that you dont sound very confident. Do you think that the boy picks up on this and just does what he wants because he knows you doubt yourself and your parenting skills? If this is the case it probably contributes to things.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Nihilanthic

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Father and son WC
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2007, 09:56:45 PM »
:rofl:

You SURE that wasn't sarcasm on his part there milk?

OH LORD THE DRAMA :em:
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Badad

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Many good questions.
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2007, 10:46:34 PM »
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I can see why you would feel that. Yet do you think it would be a long term solution?

No I dont.  Like I said.  I "want" to kick his ass.  Not that I was actually going to.  But there are moments when I need to just walk away or I might "try" to get physical.  Im now wearing hand me downs from him.  Hes as big or bigger than me and in better shape.  It would be a close match.  But it would be devastating to our relationship.

Quote from: ""Deborah""
Now, if you can't gain cooperation, how will a program? What methods will they employ to do so?
.


I have given up with most programs.  But I just talked with him.  In fact hes walking in and out as I write and says he hates me and wants to go to a program.  I told him some kids get abused and commit suicide at these programs.  He needs to get away from here though.  Scattergood here in iowa my be a option.

Then I reminded him that I love him and we both agreed we love and hate each other.

Yes.  The Drama.

I need to let the little things slide for now and hope he stays out of trouble. And spend more time with him. And its not easy hiding who I am Oz girl..
 We had some quality time when Mom left for a while.

Thanks all.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Father and son WC
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2007, 10:47:54 PM »
Quote
I have given up with most programs. But I just talked with him. In fact hes walking in and out as I write and says he hates me and wants to go to a program.


You do realize he's being an emotional teenager and you need to play the role of a intellectual adult, right?  :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."