Author Topic: What the hell???  (Read 2336 times)

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Offline exhausted

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What the hell???
« on: December 07, 2006, 10:03:51 AM »
Good Lord!!

People actually think that because they could have been worse off their abuse isn't as relevant as anyone elses??

That's incredibly sad, i agree 100% with everything you've said, my own experiences aa child were pretty horrific but they could have been a hell of alot worse, I know several ppl for who it was worse, but it doesn't make what happened with me okay at all, I can only echo what you say, abuse, no matter in what form, is never okay!
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Offline Deborah

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What the hell???
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 10:22:04 AM »
And a great rant at that.   ::cheers::

Check this out. Was crunching some numbers with a co-heart the other night. Here's what it looks like.

40,747,962 kids age 10-19

20,000 (industry estimate) go through programs each year

that's  1 in 2037 teens are incarcerated in "parent choice" warehouses

That doesn't include the tens of thousands that are warehoused in "public" (some privately owned) detention centers, RTCs, boot camps, etc.

82,814 according to a 2003 report
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/cjrp/asp/Age_Sex.asp

102,814 incarcerated per year.  1 in 396.
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Offline psy

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What the hell???
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 10:33:13 AM »
jesus fucking christ deborah.

I never thought it was that bad.

 ::puke::  :flame:  ::unhappy::  ::armed::

You know of any in the VA area?  I'd be glad to organize a student protest from my university at one of em.  Be glad to bring the photo class.  We got telephoto lenses a plenty (to take group photos of course).
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Nihilanthic

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What the hell???
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 12:03:25 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And a great rant at that.   ::cheers::

Check this out. Was crunching some numbers with a co-heart the other night. Here's what it looks like.

40,747,962 kids age 10-19

20,000 (industry estimate) go through programs each year

that's  1 in 2037 teens are incarcerated in "parent choice" warehouses

That doesn't include the tens of thousands that are warehoused in "public" (some privately owned) detention centers, RTCs, boot camps, etc.

82,814 according to a 2003 report
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/cjrp/asp/Age_Sex.asp

102,814 incarcerated per year.  1 in 396.


Well, there's our mandate...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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What the hell???
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 12:20:37 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And a great rant at that.   ::cheers::

Check this out. Was crunching some numbers with a co-heart the other night. Here's what it looks like.

40,747,962 kids age 10-19

20,000 (industry estimate) go through programs each year

that's  1 in 2037 teens are incarcerated in "parent choice" warehouses

That doesn't include the tens of thousands that are warehoused in "public" (some privately owned) detention centers, RTCs, boot camps, etc.

82,814 according to a 2003 report
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/cjrp/asp/Age_Sex.asp

102,814 incarcerated per year.  1 in 396.


This is very useful information, worthy of its own thread and discussion in my opinion. Wow, just wow.  :o
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Offline Anonymous

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What the hell???
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 12:31:55 PM »
The number of adjudicated juveniles is nothing compared to the adult incarceration rate in America. It's 1 in about 130, the highest in the world. That's an aspect of the criminal justice system, and it's important to separate that from the shit we fight on Fornits. (One enemy at a time, people.)

Remember all the discussion of Three Springs programs closing? That's because Georgia, and probably other states as well, are moving away from this as an option. It's not working, and they're closing their doors to it, particularly when they've got people like DJ and RB hammering away at places like HLA.

The programmies like to bring in a whole lot of places when they talk about numbers, but a lot of those places aren't what we discuss on Fornits, nor could they ever be. And if their numbers were decreasing, would they tell the public about it? We ought to trust the programmies on the numbers the same amount as we trust them on anything else.

It doesn't mean that we still don't have our work cut out for us- one kid in a hellhole is too many- but it's nowhere near as bad as it looks.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What the hell???
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 12:48:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
A sick concept is alive and strong among us. Logical people stating in public, "My program wasn't as bad as Tranquility Bay so it must be ok." What is happening in this world when abuse of any kind is tolerated? Can we put a measurement of abuse that somehow makes it acceptable? Do we now have a numerical system in place to measure the abuse levels of programs?

Perhaps Tranquility bay can be the worst at a 10.

I will put the mythical creature called the Elysian fields of programs at a number 1. This dreamie paradise has no abuse what so ever by the current legal definitions of the term.

So if your program falls at a 5 or higher some how it is ok?

Lets try this logic out for size shall we?

"My program falls at a 4. I am not to complain because it could have been much worst and according to the program staff I am fortunate that I wasn't sent elsewhere."

Excuse me??? Abuse is abuse no matter what the level. AS if you can measure abuse on a numerical scale anyway.

DON'T feel sorry for not being abused in some cesspit like Tranquility Bay! Feel enraged that you were abused by the place you were sent to! No matter what you endured, no matter how harsh the treatment, no matter what the methods it is all wrong!

You can't justify abuse in terms of severity. The ends to not justify the means. The statement, "My child's school isn't as bad as Tranquility Bay. Ergo it must be ok and Junior does seem to be acting better so the ends justify the means."

This is a false statement PEOPLE!

DON'T accept abuse no matter what, where, how, who, and why the form and severity!

thank you.. just ranting..


Its a common psychological attack tool or whatever used in programs, and from what I can tell in everyday life. You compain about something, and the other person brings up an even worse situation that you could be in, in an attempt to shut down your complaints and criticisms. Like when youre a kid and complain you didn't get what you wanted for chrismas, but then your parents remind you that most of the world doens't get anything. For the most part, this kind of argument seems to work. Now that same argument is being disingenuisely used on this industry and I agree its pervasive. I also it involves survivors guilt, and just not wanting to think about memories youd rather leave untouched for the remainder of your life.

one of the hardest things to do, that should be the most simple, is to convince a former program graduate that other kids were abused in the program they thrived in. its uncomprehensive to them, for something they like, something they attribute their very life to, for that wonderful thing to be capable of murder, sexual abuse and negligence is something they don't want to know. reminds me of religious people who just don't want to hear the other side of the argument. Not because they are stupid, because they're arrgument cannot stand the free market of ideas. If they don't control the conversation, the argument and even the vocabulary used in programs, they won't work. These kids who come out and say these things, it's because they went through a program. If  you sent a group of normal teenagers up to a WWASPS program and asked them to do a schol report on what they saw, you are going to get a completely different report than if you asked the kids who were locked up to do it.

I feel the same way too. I was at SCl while High impact and TB were open. I was in the hobbit when there were younger kids in there with me waiting to be transfered to one of those facilities, and if I had not been so close to 18 I would have been sent too. So yeah, I feel lucky I didn't spend a summer at High impact (casa), but I don't think that gives anyone the right to lock me in a cage just because of what I say or wont say during a seminar, or for refusing meds. When you are in a place that will lock up in a cage for your words, you know somethings amiss.

I think what tsw describes is normal. I am glad I was not treated like Layne, or was driven to suicide like Karlye, or killed trying to escape or something off the blacony at TB like that other girl. These kids weren't crazy they were driven to madness by their situation. the same reasons dogs start losing it after a while at the dog kennel. I don't think we would be complaining so much if it were just called PRISON and we wer given sentences for things we did wrong. But a lot of kids never did anything wrong other than hurt themselves. So now their parents pay a fortune to have them hurt even more, and if theyre lucky they will be dredged from rock bottom and built back up in the program image, and that's fucked up.

TSW the reason why we say things like "i wouldnt give up the experience in the world because I am the person I am today because of it." or " even though I saw abuse, I was nenver abused and it made me stronger". or "the kids who had a hard time were the ones who really didnt want to work it". If kids in abusive programs say things like this its because they are hiding from themselves. They might have become an upper level who bought into it and helped the program thrive. How can you become an overnight critic when you spent a year of your life as a upper level staffer for the program!

Just like our society is divided between the haves and have nots, so are programs like WWASPS. The ones who have it all will never understand the going ons of the ones who have nothing, and still get what little they have taken from them for no reason... get it completely but know the ones who have power will never get it. They can get it if they fall down into the lower levels, of program or society, but then they can't help anymore because they are just another screaming voice ina choir of disenfranchisement.

And with that said, thank god I didnt end up in TB.  :wink:
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Offline Troll Control

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What the hell???
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 01:36:36 PM »
Quote
The number of adjudicated juveniles is nothing compared to the adult incarceration rate in America. It's 1 in about 130, the highest in the world. That's an aspect of the criminal justice system, and it's important to separate that from the shit we fight on Fornits. (One enemy at a time, people.)


This statistic is actually inaccurate.  Very inaccurate.

Currently ONE IN THIRTY-TWO Americans are either incarcerated, on parole or in the probation system.  It's staggering.
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Offline Anonymous

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What the hell???
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 01:39:13 PM »
Wonder what the percentage of non-violent drug offenses is?
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Offline Anonymous

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What the hell???
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2006, 01:44:59 PM »
You quoted the incarceration + parole + probation rate, I quoted the incarceration rate, which is listed here as being 1 in 143.

And yes, too many of these, way too fucking many, are for nonviolent drug offenders. Making something like drugs illegal doesn't make people stop doing it, it just means people go to jail for it.
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Offline Troll Control

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What the hell???
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2006, 02:34:03 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wonder what the percentage of non-violent drug offenses is?


Roughly 80% are for drug offenses.  Almost 95% of those drug offenses are for possession only.

I was once a P.O.W. of The War on Drugs for a simple possession offense.  The system is totally broken.
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Offline Anonymous

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What the hell???
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2006, 02:36:52 PM »
Quote
If you sent a group of normal teenagers up to a WWASPS program and asked them to do a schol report on what they saw, you are going to get a completely different report than if you asked the kids who were locked up to do it.


This poster has an excellent point.

Remember Exhausted's reaction to the "63 days" link? This is an ST poster we're talking about- and she couldn't read it because it was too disturbing! That's the natural human reaction to this sort of thing, seeing it for the first time. I don't intend to bring Godwin into this, but when the Allied troops reached the death camps in Nazi Germany, they started puking. The inmates were like "what are they puking at?", until they realized that the Allied troops were puking at what had been done to them!

Also, there's the fact that it takes a certain kind of parent to send his or her kid away. This is hard to corroborate with evidence, but I hold that parents who don't adequately prepare their children for adolesence (a major cause of 'troubled teens'), and often do abusive things themselves, are the same kind of parents who will send their kid off to be tortured. Hence, the reaction of the kids who are sent away is much less stark than an average sampling of the teen population would be, because they're already used to being treated like shit.
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Offline Troll Control

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What the hell???
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2006, 02:37:00 PM »
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censussta ... injail.htm

Yeah, MGDP, that's a correct distinction.  1 in 142 currently locked up, 1 in 32 either are or have been locked up or are under supervision.
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Offline Deborah

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What the hell???
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2006, 02:52:25 PM »
Sorry gookie, didn't mean for your thread to get highjacked. Never know what's going to be of interest.....

And just as we sh0uldn't accept abuse no matter what, where, how, who, and why the form and severity, we sh0uldn't accept the "window of loss" excuse for killing kids!  No ethical therapy subjects kids to the risk of death.
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Offline MightyAardvark

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What the hell???
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2006, 03:04:32 PM »
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see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.