The current "My teen wont forgive me" thread on ST

[psy]

psy,
I know that the "dead r' in jail" mantra is often quoted by those who advocate the use of programs and also by those who ridicule the decisions made by some grieving parents.
In our daughter's case, she was a danger to herself.  I don't want to turn my post into a novel, so I will distill it down to the essentials.

Our child (one of 3) started exhibiting signs of mental illness around preschool age.  We found a child psychiatrist and therapists at a local university medical center.  She remained in therapy for about 4 years.  A complete neuro-psych evaluation determined depression and parasomnia (sleep disorder).  My husband and I were peaceful
attentive, and loving parents.  Loving and involved extended family.  No history of familial mental illness.  No evidence of abuse or molestation of our daughter.
Fast-forward to age 12.  On an overseas trip with grandparents and cousins, she is molested by an older teenage boy.  The hell begins.  Despite the entire family rallying around her with love and support, and despite finding the best local therapist who specializes in sexual abuse and trauma recovery, our daughter spins out of control.
She starts fondling and giving blow jobs to boys in 7th grade.  She leaves the house in the middle of the night and hitchhikes with strangers.  (Yes, we installed a security system).  Gets beaten up, raped and prostituted out when she walks off with strangers at age 14.  From 12 to 14 she is in outpatient therapy and is admitted to a
local adolescent mental health care facility off and on, sometimes for one week, sometimes for 3 weeks at a time.
One summer she disappeared for 9 days.  We live in the rural Midwest where the corn grows very high by August.  Almost every year when the corn is harvested a partially decomposed body is found.  We were absolutely certain that our daughter's body would be found under those circumstances given her tendancy to walk off
with men who were strangers to her.   When we found her, she had lost 10 pounds, was covered in bruises, and spent 5 days in the hospital with an IV.  Didn't seem to faze her.  As soon as she got home she started contacting the men who had abused her.  She admitted to her therapist at a TBS that the plan was for her to rejoin
one of them, drive to Tennessee, and prostitute to feed his heroin addiction.
I've said enough.  I think you get the picture.  We tried to keep her safe, but our state's ONLY long-term inpatient mental health facility had a waiting list of 8 months.  Yeah, we took drastic action or we were going to lose her forever.
Right now she is 19 years old, a sophomore in college, and on the Dean's list.  It was in her RTC where she was finally diagnosed with bi-polar ll.   Wonder of wonders, she was prescribed lithium with an anti-depressant and started to feel like a human being again.
Our daughter still struggles with several issues surrounding her mental illness and sexual abuse.  She probably always will.  But she is alive and moving forward.
Our daughter, my husband and myself have had many long conversations about the merits and drawbacks of residential placement.   We have all come to the conclusion that, for her, placement kept her physically safe while she continued her education and her brain matured.   No more, no less.  She didn't receive any magical, life-changing advice from any of the staff, and she didn't buy into the "program."  She was just kept safe from herself.

by "8/10", Milk is rating you as a troll. (ie.  i give the post an 8/10 on the convincing meter)  I'm not so sure you are a troll so i'll answer you.

I'll only respond by saying I don't think you made the right decision by program, and I don't think lithium was the answer either.  Lithium is a very strong emotional suppressant.  Although it covers the symptons, it really doesn't deal with the crux of the issue, which in my opinion, would be her sexual abuse.  People on Lithium generally are very numb and it wouldn't be nice to her to have to live out such an existence long term when a skilled psychologist could uncover and deal with her issues.

I can guarantee she never felt safe enough to reveal the details of this in program unless it was coerced out of her under conditions of sleep deprivation, starvation, guided imagery, or trance induction (which does happen).  In CEDU schools it's called "propheets" or "Workshops".  We'll just say, from personal experience, it is not exactly good for the mind to have things brought to the surface without your consent.  If this was done to her, I would estimate it being considerably more difficult for her to feel comfortable enough to talk to a therapist about her issues again.  This happened with many people I knew and it was the worst with the ones who were sexually abused.  It's like being victimized all over again.

I'm not so sure you should believe any of her "confessions" in program.  It was not uncommon where I was for one to be forced to buy into exaggerations and outright lies in order to be perceived as "going along with the program".  Often, after enough time, enough pressure, and enough brainwashing (i can explain in further detail if you wish), one actually came to believe their trumped up confessions.  There are a thousand reasons why i could think of such a story with heroin and Tennessee not to be true and it really sounds like something that was made up for your benefit.  Have you talked to your daughter in detail about her program experience?  Where was she?

You may ask.  What alternative?  Well, I've seen other posters suggest a wealth of options before.  A psych ward at a hospital could have been an option as would be any mental institution available, in state, or out of state.  You could have contacted a rape hot line or support group for abused women.  I'm sure they could have helped.  Having friends who understood her experiences might have helped her to realize why she was behaving the way she was.  These are just a few suggestions, though at this point I suggest you research the program where she was placed, and find out if her confessions were truthful (unlikely) or trumped up / coerced.

[Anonymous]

8 month waiting list for actual psych treatment?

LOL.

No such thing! I love "only in the state" too.  :rofl:

[Oz girl]

I am sorry. Your story sounds awful. What strikes me is that this girl sounds deeply ill.
It is concerning that RTCs and TBS schools are selling themselves as providing a service which fills gaps that should be provided by mental health services. I would argue that your daughters Treatment Centre would have been more ethical in their approach if they had immediately helped you to look at any other options in which your daughter could have been helped by professionals who work only with children who are mentally ill. But this is the problem with an industry which is unregulated and for profit. it will be all things to all people, even if it means being a "better than nothing" option for those who feel they dont know where else to turn

[habibi]

psy,
I'm not real familiar with internet terms, so I don't know what a "troll" is either.
There are actually 2 main issues challenging our daughter.  The first is the underlying mood disorder and parasomnia.  Layered over that is the sexual abuse.  It is very difficult to counsel a patient about traumatic events in their lives if they have an untreated psychiatric issue to boot.  In our daughter's case, both issues were addressed, and continue to be addressed.  I agree that medicating a victim of abuse and ignoring the abuse itself would be negligent.
She has never reported feeling "numb" on Lithium, only more clear-headed, focused and content.  Perhaps this is because her dosage is low.
Our daughter received outpatient  psychiatric and psychological counseling for years before residential treatment and for years before her molestation.  Several different anti-depressants were tried without success.  According to our daughter, Lithium was the only med that worked.  She is living away at college now, and takes it on her own regularly.  No one puts a gun to her head and forces her.  She came to this conclusion on her own after trial and error.
As to her program, we did our own research.  We found this site, and the ST site, and isaccorp and heal-online.  We networked with local and regional psychiatrists and visited 4 different facilities.  No, the facility we chose was not a WWASPS or CEDU or "faith-based" facility.  It is a very small clinically-based facility in Wisconsin that specifically treats girls who are victims of sexual abuse.  There are 2 separate homes with 7 girls in each.  And no psy...no witchcraft was used to get her to talk.  She had been talking openly about the abuse incidents with us and her therapists before she went into residential.
As far as "confessions" in the program...there were really no surprises.  Her molestation at age 12 was corroborated by one of her cousins who was with her on the trip. Our daughter  had been talking to us about it anyway.  Her rape case 2 years later hit the local newspapers.  The man she was going to run with was found dead in his home 2 weeks after she left for residential - heroin overdose.  No surprise there. Two of the men who raped her are currently serving time.  One got a suspended sentence. Two more have disappeared.  The nasty details of our daughter's time with these animals came out in court.  We didn't hear about the Tennessee plan until she was in residential because, as I indicated above, the jerk died before he went to trial.
Other options...we tried all the ones you listed.  She was short-term inpatient at our local facility on 5 different occasions, and a resident at another in a nearby city for 2 weeks.  The long-term inpatient psych facility in our state had a very long waitng list (and a scary reputation).  Out of state psych ward?  We think our daughter got better and more specialized care in Wisconsin.  Rape counseling, check.  Support group, check.  The advice of her friends went in one ear and out the other.

Bottom line, I agree that residential treatment should be the absolute last choice, and should only be made if the kid is a danger to himself or others.  It should be considered ONLY after all LOCAL mental health care resources have been completely exhausted.

guest,
I didn't say there was an 8 month waiting list for psych treatment.  I said there was an 8 month waiting list for INPATIENT LONG-TERM psych treatment.   Learn to read, asshole.

[Anonymous]

I sounds as if you did your homework and chose a true residential "treatment" facility not associated with the hellholes that are trashed on this site; facilities that advertise themselves as being "theraputic" when in fact most are abusive.  These are  "one size fits all" cash cows that don't offer the kind of treatment you got for your daughter.  They have incompetent  and uneducated staff  (some barely have a GED, let alone a college degree) for the most part.  They are unlicensed and unregulated and experiment on the kids heads with all kinds of new agey crap and old-fashioned 1984-like brain-washing.  They take anyone whose parents have the big bucks to send them there.   I have read on this site how some of these programs actually force kids to confess being sexually abused in front of everyone, male and female, then have it used against them.
No way would your daughter have gotten "treatment" or a diagnosis at one of these places.

A "troll" is someone who comes on the site to start shit by putting out phony stories to get everyone stirred up.  Usually they are people who continue to benefit financially from these "therapukic" places and want to keep milking the cow.  They like to "bait" and try to distract posters from telling the truth.  They also call people "assholes" when the person posts something don't like.

Just curious but have you ever thought that your daughter might have been seriously molested at a very young age by a familly member or a babysitter?  I only say this because her problems started so  young.  I have not read any case of a bi-polar diagnosis where the person did not have huge trauma in their background and it usually happened at a  young age.  check it out

[habibi]

A troll.  I get it.  When I see the word "troll" I think of the trolls who lived under the bridge in "The Three Billy Goats Gruff."  No, I'm not a troll.  I'm just a mom who has lived and breathed this issue for a number of years now.
 This possibility of early molestation was suggested to us by her primary therapist at the facility.  I have always been a stay at home mom and never used babysitters.  The only people who babysat our children were my parents, who raised me.  Let me just say that, in a perfect world, my mom and dad are the parents that every child would have.  Absolutely no possiblilty of harm there. We really can't think of a time when our daughter would have been alone with someone we don't know very well.  We, and her therapist,  did  discuss this possibility with our daughter.  She says she has no recollection of an early molestation.  Part of the reason it took so many years to properly diagnose our daughter was because bi-polar almost always has a very strong family history.  Since there is no history of bi-polar in either side of the family, that diagnosis was put on the shelf and dismissed.
There is still so much mystery surrounding these biologically-based mental illnessess.   We have beaten ourselves up so many times trying to figure out what happened, or if there is a recessive gene in the family, or if something did happen to her in early childhood.  We have to accept the fact that we may never know.

[Anonymous]

This may seem like an odd question, but not having dealt with drugs/alcohol before (son went to RTC for other issues), I'm wondering what my boy might have been on last night. His friend drove him home, he was weaving as he came across the deck, stumbled in the door, slurred his words and went straight to bed. According to his "friend", they'd gone out to eat, went to another boy's house where our son repeatedly threw up, then (several hours later)he brought him home. Sounds like a first time drinker chugging too much at once, to me. I'm just wondering if there are other possibilities? Some drug or substance I'm not aware of?

Sounds like he was slaughtered to me, maybe he smoked a little pot as well, the two together are guaranteed to make anyone sick - but you more than likely would have smelt pot on him, it sticks to everything and has a very sweet sickly smell to it.......if it's any conilation, my son did this to me last night as well, puked all over the back seat of my car, he's going to have fun clearing it up tomorrow, hence my new rule of him not being allowed in the house with even a touch of alcohol on his lips

How old is your lad?


If these people can't even get their facts straight about drugs and drug use how can they be expected to get their facts straight about where they ship their kids off to and whether or not it's really necessary in the first place? :roll:

[Anonymous]

I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.

[Anonymous]

I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.

2/10

[Troll Control]

I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.

2/10

2/10?  Ur nuts!  This is a 12/10 simply for the drug/alcohol habit being CREATED at a TBS.  This happens all the time and is seriously under-reported.  "Good kids gone bad due to 'help'"...

[psy]

(some barely have a GED, let alone a college degree) for the most part.  They are unlicensed and unregulated and experiment on the kids heads with all kinds of new agey crap and old-fashioned 1984-like brain-washing.  They take anyone whose parents have the big bucks to send them there.   I have read on this site how some of these programs actually force kids to confess being sexually abused in front of everyone, male and female, then have it used against them.

Check, check, check, check.  Sounds like where I was.  

Habibi,

the above quoted guest pretty well summarized what goes on at some programs.  It's good you researched the place you sent your daughter (it's better than my parents ever did, who just took the ed-con's word for it).  You must admit, however, that it was still a risk, and that as long as the industry remains completely unregulated there still a danger (which in my mind, especially becuase of my experiences, remains unacceptable).

I never questioned the authenticity of her story of abuse (such a thing should never be done), although it was a frequent occurance by the staff where i was.  I was referring, rather, to the "tennessee plan" which sounded a bit exaggerated at the very least.  As i said, now that she is out of treatment, i might think it wise to ask her about the authenticity the stories.

It sounds like the guys she was going out with were complete shits and for your daughter's sake, i'm glad their dead.

As far as the Lithium goes, it is, in the end, your daughter's choice, though i hope she is getting therapy as well.

You mention that there were "therapists" at the facility you sent your daughter to.  That is a good sign.  Where i was, there were no body on staff with anything above a BA, and no counselors with anything above a HS diploma.

I do aggree, with the guest, however that there is a high likelyhood of early life sexual molestation.  Such would explain a lot about her behaviour.  There was a girl in my program who was very promiscuous.  Eventually she had a flashback of being raped by her father as a child.  It was a memory she had repressed.  She disclosed this to her counselor and it was later made a topic of group discussion.  I would hope the staff at your daughter's facility were more qualified and/or sensitive.

[psy]

This may seem like an odd question, but not having dealt with drugs/alcohol before (son went to RTC for other issues), I'm wondering what my boy might have been on last night. His friend drove him home, he was weaving as he came across the deck, stumbled in the door, slurred his words and went straight to bed. According to his "friend", they'd gone out to eat, went to another boy's house where our son repeatedly threw up, then (several hours later)he brought him home. Sounds like a first time drinker chugging too much at once, to me. I'm just wondering if there are other possibilities? Some drug or substance I'm not aware of?

Now THAT is funny.  No.  He was drunk.

[/quote]Sounds like he was slaughtered to me, maybe he smoked a little pot as well, the two together are guaranteed to make anyone sick[/quote]

 :rofl: Okey dokey.  Pot is given to leukemia patients to keep them from throwing up from the chemo.  If your kid blew chunks, he probably wasn't smoking.  His friends might have been.  Pot, in no quantity, will make somebody throw up.  It will keep them from throwing up.  This is actually dangerous in some cases (throwing up is the body's way of doing a stomach pump, avoiding alcohol poisoning), and the real reason why the two should not be mixed (at least not in mass quantities).

Look.  So your kid got drunk and threw up.  Woop-e-di-doo.  I did it once when i was growing up and never drank that much again.  No really.  I never wanted that headache again.  Screwing up is part of growing up.  It's a learning process.  How else are you supposed to know when to stop than to get sick at least once.

Well.  Back to my wonderful vacation in sunny Romania.

[Anonymous]

I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.

2/10

2/10?  Ur nuts!  This is a 12/10 simply for the drug/alcohol habit being CREATED at a TBS.  This happens all the time and is seriously under-reported.  "Good kids gone bad due to 'help'"...

Laughing at other people's misfortunes deserves a 0/10. All some people care about is if  THEY are right and win an online argument (in their own head) and could care less about the kids discussed here.

[Anonymous]

I ought to differentiate here.

The idea of some dipshit paying a manager's salary for a year to have the kid come out with even more problems than he went in with is black humor, and deserves derisive laughter.

The actual kid isn't who I intended to laugh at at all.

[Anonymous]

Hi all

I must admit that I did not read everything on this thread before responding to you here.  When I have more time, I will.  Just wanted to say I sent my son to a Wilderness (for 6 weeks), then on to a TBS, and he graduated from high school (i was there for his graduation), and (he had dropped out of high school here, so he would not have graduated from high school), with almost all A's.  He is not mad at me to this day.  He told me that he knows why I did what I did, and that he was spinning out of control.

However I do want to say, that I think that the only thing he got out of all of this was that he was spinning out of control, he learned lots of things in the wilderness, and he is totally off drugs and he graduated from high school with high grades, however, he is back to gambling which should have been addressed more in counseling at the TBS and wasn't.  All I can say is that he does admit that he is adicted to gambling, and the last month he went on a spending trip to CA with a "gambling friend", and spent thousands of $, and lost it all.  He also neglected himself, and is a diabetic and wasn't taking his insulin and he finally called a relative who came and picked him up at the casino, and my son (18) was in really bad shape, dirty, and was taken to the ER, and his sugar level should not be over 180, and it was 668.  If he had not been taken to the ER that day, they say his sugar level would have gotten higher since he was not taking his insulin and he would have soon, passed out and gone into a coma, and prob. died.  So he realized what he had done to himself, but I know and he knows he is hooked on gambling.  He is going to do counseling, but will this really help?  

Just thought I would tell you our story.