The current "My teen wont forgive me" thread on ST

[psy]

I bet he would too, but I still think it's funny that someone who is all over the place trying to spead the word about how bad drugs are and how much these "damn kids" need rehab uses the screen name of one of the most notorious stoners around.

Meh, maybe it's just me.

The irony is killing me.  Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy.  It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that.  bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".

God i spent too much time in program.  I never even knew what 420 was until i landed in there.  Now i'm a walking fucking pharmacologist.  I don't do drugs but I sure leaned a shit load about them in program.

[Anne Bonney]

The irony is killing me.  Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy.  It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that.  bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".

God i spent too much time in program.  I never even knew what 420 was until i landed in there.  Now i'm a walking fucking pharmacologist.  I don't do drugs but I sure leaned a shit load about them in program.

Yeah, me too.  I never did cocaine before I went in...that was one of the first things I wanted to try later on.  In our group therapy sessions (called raps in there) we had to "talk about our past" and how bad it was.  The more tears, the better.  If you spoke about an incident without sufficient emotion, you were "confronted" and humiliated for the better part of an hour or more in front of the entire group (300-400) in order to help you understand just how bad you really were.  So, we learned to embellish and flat out make shit up.  Hell, you had to in order to progress.  But....my point in all this, is that I learned much more about drugs IN rehab than I had ever known before.  I wanted to try all this cool shit I kept hearing about over and over and over again (we had raps 12 hours a day straight, 5 days a week, longer on Mondays and Fridays), even though outwardly I was towing the program line, spouting all the extreme anti-drug bullshit.  They fuck with your head on so many different levels and you don't even realize a lot of it until years later sometimes.

[Anne Bonney]

The irony is killing me.  Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy.  It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that.  bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".

She's had to have heard about his arrests.  Shit, every time I turn around he's being busted for some fairly large quantity.
 ::bwahaha::

She's something else.  I don't think we've ever had a more Sybil like character on here.  And in so many different forums.  She poses as either kids or parents or staff of at least 3 different places.  And she says we have no life. :rofl:

[exhausted]

I have never said my son's ADHD is an excuse for his behaviour, not at all, in fact entirely the opposite, he often tries to use it as an excuse and I will not have it

However, having ADHD does lead to frutration for my son when he can't grasp certain things, in his report it is described as cognitive behaviour? I'll be able to find out more what that means tomorrow when I see the assessor

ADHD does not mean swinging off the ceiling lights at all, often ADHD children are quiet, have no self esteem, cannot look another person in the eye, avoids contact with others (especially adults) because they feel worthless and stupid, this is the case with my son, I am the only person he  trusts & feels comfortable enough with to scream & swear at, the fact that he has spent his school years up until this year being called thick, naughty, stupid hasn't helped much either

I was indeed saying when i spoke to the police about it, that he didn't comprehend that alot of my son's frustrations and inability to control compulsive and irrational behaviour are due to ADHD (don't blame me, it is written in the report as diagnosed by a psychologist) although his medication does help these compulsive outbursts a little

Whoever said that I need therapy is right, you've got it bang on, because I am the one who is cracking under the strain, I am the one who deals with the backlash of bad behaviour even though I cannot get help, saying that, you are wrong in me wanting sympathy etc, it's not sympathy I want it is help, so i came to a forum to get an understanding from children and adults alike who have been where my boys are right now, it seems I was mistaken in thinking you may actually want to use your experiences to help another child, instead you use them to attack the very person who wants to help them, wouldn't it have been nice if someone had wanted to help you guys?? But, I was asking too much, I apologise for thinking you may sympathise with what my boys must be feeling and going through, and want to help them through me, it was a bad judgement error on my behalf

Guest I have been looking to move for a while now, these things don't just happen overnight, so yes I have been looking at properties that are remote, mainly because the boys will have nowehere to go at night in order to get into trouble, that is how serious I am about getting help, I will uproot my life and move (Not to Amish  though, forget it)
Why is it alleged? "Toss in alleged total absence of private doctors - medical or psychiatric, no local programs to address issues" what would be my reason to lie about this, I am not getting the help, end of, believe what you like, you obviously have a much clearer understanding of the situation and resources available for me than I do
I do not want a magic solution and you make it sound as if I all of a sudden want help, I fought for 8 years to get my 13 yr old assessed, if I had a magic wand it would be wonderful, but I don't, the solution can't even be considered until I fully understand the problem, this is where I am facing the hurdles, I can't get anyone to see my son to tell me what the hell is wrong with him to even begin to start working on helping him work through this with hopefully a positive outcome for him.

Deborah, did I sound duped by DR Shithead? No! I told him/her that I was aware of the stirring they were trying to do and to get lost, if you see that as being duped then you have the problem not me.

[psy]

The irony is killing me.  Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy.  It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that.  bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".

God i spent too much time in program.  I never even knew what 420 was until i landed in there.  Now i'm a walking fucking pharmacologist.  I don't do drugs but I sure leaned a shit load about them in program.

Yeah, me too.  I never did cocaine before I went in...that was one of the first things I wanted to try later on.  In our group therapy sessions (called raps in there) we had to "talk about our past" and how bad it was.  The more tears, the better.  If you spoke about an incident without sufficient emotion, you were "confronted" and humiliated for the better part of an hour or more in front of the entire group (300-400) in order to help you understand just how bad you really were.  So, we learned to embellish and flat out make shit up.  Hell, you had to in order to progress.  But....my point in all this, is that I learned much more about drugs IN rehab than I had ever known before.  I wanted to try all this cool shit I kept hearing about over and over and over again (we had raps 12 hours a day straight, 5 days a week, longer on Mondays and Fridays), even though outwardly I was towing the program line, spouting all the extreme anti-drug bullshit.  They fuck with your head on so many different levels and you don't even realize a lot of it until years later sometimes.

raps raps raps rape of the mind.  Yeah i know how it is.  How many of you did your guys actually convince.  Shit.  They had me believing i was an alcoholic and i had only gotten drunk once in my life before program. I was pissed when i snapped out of it.  I still am.  I never thought such a thing was possable before program.  I thought i was strong enough, that i could resist anything they could throw at me.  Then i lost hope, and they had me.

I smoked pot a few times but never tried anything hard.  AA meetings after NA meetings, and people telling you how lucky you are to have the problem discovered so early.  It was such a mind fuck.

So i'm making a website about it for a college art project (actually I used the art project as an excuse to work on it... it's been a long time coming).  Gonna present it in class today.  Wish me luck.  Yup it's 90% done.  The select few who have the preview URL have at it.

[psy]

ps.  i don't speak for everybody here.  this is just my opinion.

I have never said my son's ADHD is an excuse for his behaviour, not at all, in fact entirely the opposite, he often tries to use it as an excuse and I will not have it

However, having ADHD does lead to frutration for my son when he can't grasp certain things, in his report it is described as cognitive behaviour? I'll be able to find out more what that means tomorrow when I see the assessor

ADHD does not mean swinging off the ceiling lights at all, often ADHD children are quiet, have no self esteem, cannot look another person in the eye, avoids contact with others (especially adults) because they feel worthless and stupid,

That's more a symptom of depression caused by the reaction of others, and his self perception of his ADHD.  As he grows up he may actually look upon it as a gift as I do.  There are certain things ADHD people can do that normies can't.

this is the case with my son, I am the only person he  trusts & feels comfortable enough with to scream & swear at, the fact that he has spent his school years up until this year being called thick, naughty, stupid hasn't helped much either

Have you considered a martial arts class for him?  I'm serious.  It teaches self discipline and self confidence.  It's very rare for kids to misuse what they are taught because of these elements.  I know it sounds like a bad idea but it might help him have some real sense of achievement.

I was indeed saying when i spoke to the police about it, that he didn't comprehend that alot of my son's frustrations and inability to control compulsive and irrational behaviour are due to ADHD (don't blame me, it is written in the report as diagnosed by a psychologist) although his medication does help these compulsive outbursts a little

Whoever said that I need therapy is right, you've got it bang on, because I am the one who is cracking under the strain, I am the one who deals with the backlash of bad behaviour even though I cannot get help, saying that, you are wrong in me wanting sympathy etc, it's not sympathy I want it is help, so i came to a forum to get an understanding from children and adults alike who have been where my boys are right now, it seems I was mistaken in thinking you may actually want to use your experiences to help another child, instead you use them to attack the very person who wants to help them,

Understand why a lot of people might be bitter against parents.  I'll tell you my story and you might understand.  Many people in program tried to cry out to their parents and ended up being pretty much abandoned, accused of being manipulative.  The damage done in most cases to the relationship between parent and child is pretty permanent.

also, not everybody here has attacked you.  It's an unmoderated forum.  People say all kinds of things, just like real life.  There are nice people here, there are trolls, and there are assholes.  It's not sugarcoat land like over there at ST where threads get closed when a poster hits too close to the truth.  This is uncensored.  So don't blame us all for the reactions of a few and realize where those few are coming from.  You're coming from ST and most people who have come here from ST haven't made a very good impression on them.

wouldn't it have been nice if someone had wanted to help you guys?? But, I was asking too much, I apologise for thinking you may sympathise with what my boys must be feeling and going through, and want to help them through me, it was a bad judgement error on my behalf

If you were in program a staff member would be yelling at you right now for starting a "pity party".  It's not true, but in program you had to accept it as true.  Eventually you learned not to resist, or speak how you truly felt.  Now people are out in the real world and fornits gives them an opportunity to finally speak out about their experiences and have somebody listen.  So we both want the same thing.  We both want somebody to listen and sympathize without being attacked.  Well some people here do listen.  just tune out the garbage.

[Anne Bonney]

Oh god, it fucked with me for a long time.  I was in there for two years and my dad was an extreme believer.  He married another parent from there and I got pregnant by another graduate less than a year after getting out, so I was surrounded by all these "true believers".  They screwed with my custody for about 15 years (with the hlep of a lawyer on the BOD of Straight) and all of it was based on some whacked "diagnosis" of me when I was fucking 16 years old.  I had only smoked pot and drank before I went in.  They insisted I had done coke and various other drugs and you absolutey could not progress if they thought you weren't "being honest".  So a lot of us ended up with these lengthy drug lists that were completely full of shit.  Then after I got out I wanted to try all these other drugs that I had heard about for so long.  When I did, all the crap about deadinsaneinjail ran through my head.  Ya know, the whole self-fulfulling prophecy stuff. They feed you the crap about powerlessness, diagnose children with questionable 'diseases' (I'm sorry, you can't possibly tag a 13 or 14 year old with dx of addict and not expect them to respond accordingly), while stripping you of any innate survival skills that you've acquired (a lot of the kids come from pretty dysfunctional families to begin with and you learn how to cope) and send you out into the real world and expect you to function like a well adjusted adult.  I faked it for a while.  Was a good little Straightling, had all the lingo down, shook my finger in shame and disgust at my ex-"druggie" friends (and most everyone who drank or used drugs in any form or fashion) but little by little reality creeps in.  

That's what I think is the worst part of all of these places.  It screws with your core.  It makes you doubt your own instincts.  Critical thought and logic is bad, faith is good.  Faith in "the program" or God or whichever symbolic entity.  Self is bad, group is good.  I'm 41 years old with two grown kids and really am just now figuring out who I[/b] am.  Granted my situation with being surrounded and controlled by these people may have led me to taking a little longer, but fucking with your core is fucking with your core no matter the length of time.  I've spent a lot of time thinking about the 'if onlys' of my life.

[psy]

really am just now figuring out who I[/b] am.

What?  You say?  I thought I learned that in program!

Yeah it's fun how they convince you that you aren't you and you don't know if you are really you or not (but they can "help" you find the real you, or at least make sure the old you takes a hike).  Whee.  Isn't it wonderful.  And it's fucking imposable to talk to anybody about this who hasn't been through program.  They just don't get it.  They think: "get over it".  Easier said than done.

So how long did it take you to figure out the full extent of what they did after getting out?

[Anne Bonney]

I'm still figuring it out on some levels.  Because of what my parents, my ex (AA nazi half the time, crackhead the other half) and his parents did during my kids lives (I was dragged into court or threatened with it whenever I stepped out of their arbitrary, ever changing line) it really fucked with me for a long time.  I was off and on ordered to AA meetings, mostly whenever the ex was going.  He'd get in trouble for something and be court ordered to it and was pissed.  He'd get all holier than thou from the meetings and come up with some reason for mediation.  Then I'd either end up paying enormous atty fees going to court fighting it (with my time at Straight being the predominant dx that I was an 'alcoholic') or in mediation where I'd be ordered to AA.  The whole industry and culture just makes me sick.

[psy]

The whole industry and culture just makes me sick.

Well it's designed to reform you junkie scum into productive members of society.  Can't you see the destructive beauty of the system?

I totally agree.  Once you have that program stigma...  It's like a big fucking letter P on your forehead.  Why if you were there it must have been for a good reason right?

I'm a masochist personally.  I'm still trying to remember shit i blocked out.  It's probably a bad idea but hey!  I never did think about the consequences.  I'm just a fucked up program kid.

It's funny.  Normally i'm quite elaborate in my speech and writing, but there are certain things i try to write about regarding program and i just freeze up.  I can hardly put sentences together.  You got the same problem?

Are straight Dx's actually valid anywhere?  You would think by now the whole kit-n-kaboodle would have been discredited.  Eh.  Nobody lobbies for program kids.  Somebody needs to start a program PAC.

So what were you in for?

[Anonymous]

Somebody needs to start a program PAC.

*clears throat, points to donation thread*

[Anne Bonney]

Nah, the dx doesn't really mean anything clinically but a judge sees that in my background and I'm fucked before I even open my mouth.  Thank god that's over now!  I really had no idea how bad it was until it was over.  A therapist (the only one who ever really did me any good), when I explained the whole sordid story said 'my god, you've been living in fear for 20 years'.  I really had.  I lived under a microscope for all that time.  It's like they would all sit back and just wait for something to pounce on.  If they heard that I had A BEER at a party, a fucking family meeting was called....the ex, his parents, my parents...CPS was called.  That shit has a cumulative effect too.  We'd sit down for a mediation or end up back in court and the judge would look at the file, see all the times we had been in court or mediation and that was another strike against me.  No matter that it was all frivilous, stupid, vindictive shit....the ex was in AA, the parents were 'on his side' and I was fucked.  It was a fucking nightmare.

My parents got divorced, I went a little wild when my mom and I moved out and they didn't know what to do.  It wasn't even that bad really.  Smoking a little dope, drinking.  I got into an accident and the driver was drunk.  I think that's what sent them over the edge.  I wasn't hurt badly, but we were lucky.  My dad had heard about it through work.  He was an artist for the St. Pete Times.  The same paper that was running stories about Straight.   :roll:

It's funny. Normally i'm quite elaborate in my speech and writing, but there are certain things i try to write about regarding program and i just freeze up. I can hardly put sentences together. You got the same problem?

Yeah, I do.  There's just so much to explain, it's exhausting.

[psy]

Yeah, I do.  There's just so much to explain, it's exhausting.

No need to explain.  It's all the same song anyway and i'm quite familiar with the tune myself.

Fucking hell.  They really did a number on your family too.  Yeah i know how that is.

Do you have any idea how long it took me to explain the shit to my parents and actually have them listen.  Most of the time it was like "we don't want to talk about that and you know it."  It's only until i fucking shoved reams and reams of documentation under their noses and stood there while they read it (because otherwise they won't) they finally began to understand ("Oh.  So my kid was telling the truth after all.").

The whole program thing just sounds so preposterous to outsiders.

Fid they ever find out what happened to that pump anyhoo?  I heard it got "misplaced".

[Deborah]

Deborah, did I sound duped by DR Shithead? No! I told him/her that I was aware of the stirring they were trying to do and to get lost, if you see that as being duped then you have the problem not me.

I think you've confused me with someone else.
Ever heard of a book "Your Child's Self-Esteem", Dorothy Cargill?
Good stuff.
Ya know that amphetimines don't improve self-esteem, but they can shrink the brain and enlarge the heart. Something to consider.

[Anne Bonney]

No need to explain.  It's all the same song anyway and i'm quite familiar with the tune myself.

I mean that I freeze up, cause there's just too much to try to organize into coherent sentences.

Fucking hell.  They really did a number on your family too.  Yeah i know how that is.

Do you have any idea how long it took me to explain the shit to my parents and actually have them listen.  Most of the time it was like "we don't want to talk about that and you know it."  It's only until i fucking shoved reams and reams of documentation under their noses and stood there while they read it (because otherwise they won't) they finally began to understand ("Oh.  So my kid was telling the truth after all.").

My dad and I don't talk.  We haven't for about 5 or 6 years now.  He won't listen.  I tried one more time when Maia's book came out.  He wanted no part of it.

The whole program thing just sounds so preposterous to outsiders.

Fid they ever find out what happened to that pump anyhoo?  I heard it got "misplaced".

 :rofl: Yeah, that's what I heard too.  I have no idea.  I couldn't believe how big that story was on the front page of the Times a couple weeks back.  The top half of the front page and the entire back inside page.  Guess my dad couldn't have missed that one.  I wonder what he thought?