Author Topic: Just my opinion... (Read 12510 times)

Anonymous · « **Reply #15 on:** November 12, 2006, 08:23:15 AM »

your mom is dirty

RobertBruce · « **Reply #16 on:** November 12, 2006, 01:59:58 PM »

One more time the quintessential HLA response. The above posting was done by a staff member who rather than offering a real response or seeking to honestly discuss the problem instead reaches for the lowest common denominator.

Now the pro-hlaers will deny this up and down swearing its not coming from the school, but rather one of us trying to paint hla staff in a negative light (as if we had to try).

The truth is though that it was an hla staffer, this is all they know how to do.

Anonymous · « **Reply #17 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:07:24 PM »

TO the bold citizen that called Mark Keith a "fucker". Ignorance is rampant in this world and you, fine citizen, are proof of that fact. Mark Keith has saved more lives than I can imagine, he has HONORABLY served in the US Army, and basically he has done more than the author of that comment could ever imagine or achieve.
The Keiths are wonderful, caring people. I am grateful for their generosity ang overall concern for others.
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Troll Control · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:30:57 PM »

Quote from: ""youtr""

TO the bold citizen that called Mark Keith a "fucker". Ignorance is rampant in this world and you, fine citizen, are proof of that fact. Mark Keith has saved more lives than I can imagine, he has HONORABLY served in the US Army, and basically he has done more than the author of that comment could ever imagine or achieve.
The Keiths are wonderful, caring people. I am grateful for their generosity ang overall concern for others.

Cool. Can you then explain why Mark (and RC) have been cited by ORS for repeat violations? If Mark is such a caring and honorable guy, why is he taking patients from HLA and providing "paperwork free" "interventions" at RC? Why are there outstanding citations for abuse at RC? Why were the abuses never reported by Mr. Keith? Why is food withheld at RC? Why are there not proper records? There are a lot of questions surrounding Mr. Keith - ones that I should hope he will have to account for.

If this is what you call "caring" and "honorable" then I'd hate to see what you call "incompetent" and "abusive."

Anonymous · « **Reply #19 on:** November 13, 2006, 08:35:48 PM »

Let me preface this with saying that I really like Mark Keith and I think he has done an amazing job at transforming many kids life in a positive way. That being said, Mark does not look good on paper. He often has his own way of doing things that does not fit into what you would call "traditional therapy". If you break it down within the system beuracratic rules he does not look good and I am sure he couldn't care less. When he has a kid sent to him who has beaten the hell out of some student at HLA with a lock in a sock (one of those innapropriate HLA placements) Mark makes of point of making that kids life a living hell for a few days, and I have no problem with that. No ammount of traditional therapy is going to help a kid like that. If it would help, it would've helped long before that point. So my point is...yes, Mark Keith looks like a non caring to son of a bitch to people who want to paint him in that light and I am sure he doesn't care. My point is also that Mark has reached some kids that teams of traditional counselors never could.

FLCLcowdude · « **Reply #20 on:** November 13, 2006, 08:50:44 PM »

I beat up someone and had to deal with Mark Keith... There is no excuse for "worthless little fucker" and "Why my parents should have thrown me away" and Why he should "rip off my head and shit down my throat"

Do you see my point? Good...

Anonymous · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2006, 09:07:56 PM »

Quote from: ""youtr""

TO the bold citizen that called Mark Keith a "fucker". Ignorance is rampant in this world and you, fine citizen, are proof of that fact. Mark Keith has saved more lives than I can imagine, he has HONORABLY served in the US Army, and basically he has done more than the author of that comment could ever imagine or achieve.
The Keiths are wonderful, caring people. I am grateful for their generosity ang overall concern for others.

Spoken like a true cheerleader. The FACT remains that Mr. Keith allowed and even participated in behavior that is not appropriate in a JCAHO accredited facility. Hence the ORS findings. To my knowledge this thread isn't about his personality, simply is ethics and ability to function in his lead role at RCI. His HONORABLE service in the US Army while admirable has no relevance or bearing here. Stick with the facts not feelings. With that said I don't really condone calling him a "fucker" either. Again, fact vs. feeling.

Deborah · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2006, 11:35:50 PM »

Quote from: ""Guest""

Let me preface this with saying that I really like Mark Keith and I think he has done an amazing job at transforming many kids life in a positive way. That being said, Mark does not look good on paper. He often has his own way of doing things that does not fit into what you would call "traditional therapy". If you break it down within the system beuracratic rules he does not look good and I am sure he couldn't care less. When he has a kid sent to him who has beaten the hell out of some student at HLA with a lock in a sock (one of those innapropriate HLA placements) Mark makes of point of making that kids life a living hell for a few days, and I have no problem with that. No ammount of traditional therapy is going to help a kid like that. If it would help, it would've helped long before that point. So my point is...yes, Mark Keith looks like a non caring to son of a bitch to people who want to paint him in that light and I am sure he doesn't care. My point is also that Mark has reached some kids that teams of traditional counselors never could.

Does the kid you described belong at HLA?
"Locks in socks" is a little more than ODD and low self-esteem. That isn't even hazing, it's assault with a deadly weapon.
They called those "sock parties" at my older son's military school- the one sued for abuse and lack of adequate adult supervision. And those hoodlums only used bar soap.

Are "sternum rubs" part of the non-traditional 'therapy' he provides? Or a new massage technique?
Now, that's an idea, nothing like a massage to melt tensions and frustration, to build closeness and trust. Perhaps they should add that to their 'therapeutic' techniques. I imagine that the majority of the kids there are touch deprived. If not before, certainly after they arrive. They could start by putting Keith in charge of the (((hug and rub))) team- every kid gets a minimum of 3 hugs a day, and a good firm foot rub while Keith spins Mt Ranger war tales, just like grandpa.

I disagree that the only way to reach an angry, hopeless kid is through physical and verbal assault. That's barbaric and antiquated thinking. Love and reasonable limits. Institutions can't provide the former, or the latter for that matter. It's like everyday is crisis management cause they're dealing with a bunch of anger kids warehoused and none of them getting their 'real' needs met.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #23 on:** November 13, 2006, 11:38:17 PM »

Hugs and Rubs?

Oh Jesus.

Anonymous · « **Reply #24 on:** November 14, 2006, 09:04:05 AM »

Deborah,

No the kid mentioned did not belong at HLA and Buccellato knew it. He had no business being there at all. The kid had also been through a ton of therapy before coming to HLA and none of it worked. He could not go home because he would have been a danger to his family. He really needed to be in prison. I have no problem with him getting a dose of Mark Keith since everything else had failed and the next option would have been jail for a very long time. Obviously Mark's way of doing things is not best for all kids. He would be the first to tell you that. But when you have certain kids, usually ones who should have never been at HLA in the first place, that all other options have failed other than jail then I think he is very effective. For those kids, the time for love and limits is gone. Again, this is a very small ammount of kids, but there are some that are in that position.

And yes, I think Dr. Buccellato sent kids on interventions that had no business going on one. It was an easy out for Len much of the time.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #25 on:** November 14, 2006, 10:26:08 AM »

Well gosh it almost sounds like you're describing "tough love".

Now where have we heard that phrase before?

Deborah · « **Reply #26 on:** November 14, 2006, 11:59:45 AM »

Quote from: ""Guest""

Deborah,
No the kid mentioned did not belong at HLA and Buccellato knew it. He had no business being there at all. The kid had also been through a ton of therapy before coming to HLA and none of it worked. He could not go home because he would have been a danger to his family.

A danger to his family, so they stick him in a warehouse with with kids with low self-esteem and ODD?

Quote

He really needed to be in prison. I have no problem with him getting a dose of Mark Keith since everything else had failed and the next option would have been jail for a very long time. Obviously Mark's way of doing things is not best for all kids. He would be the first to tell you that. But when you have certain kids, usually ones who should have never been at HLA in the first place, that all other options have failed other than jail then I think he is very effective. For those kids, the time for love and limits is gone.

So, what is Keith's method? Was it "effective"? What happened to the kid?
Was this the one who left to do jail time and returned to finish?

Anonymous · « **Reply #27 on:** November 14, 2006, 01:40:50 PM »

I wouldn't really call his method "tough love". I would say that he is best with kids who are a step away from jail and what he does is shows them how miserable life can be if they don't make a decision to let someone help them through whatever they need help with. He is not there to do therapy as much as he is there to motivate them to give the therapy offered to them a try.

I know of no studies that supports his way of doing things. Then again, I don't know of any studies that support any way of helping kids that get to that point. I do know that the kids that get to that point don't have much else to lose. The odds of helping any of them at that point are very small.

No. It is not the student that went to jail and came back.

The student I am talking about ended up going to another placement. I believe a lock down. HLA dismissed him. I don't know how he did after that.

Anonymous · « **Reply #28 on:** November 14, 2006, 01:55:11 PM »

Jesus that was retarded. Of course there's no studies that support his way of doing things. I can practically guarantee you it just makes things worse.

What do you think is going to happen when you express that kind of hatred at kids? Do you think they're going to say "well maybe I am a worthless shit"? Maybe the more passive kids, the ones that had no psychological problems at all before they got in there, will think that (and only really start hating you some time after they get out), but do you really think that's going to work on some serious hardcase?

No, what you're going to get is someone who hates you more than he cares about himself. Of course that kid ended up being even more misanthropic to the point where not even HLA could handle him. What the hell did you expect? You practically spooned rage down his throat.

And now that HLA is buckling like a cheap bridge in a hurricane, you're probably looking for a way to inflict this shit on kids somewhere else. Go take up sea urchin juggling instead.

Anonymous · « **Reply #29 on:** November 14, 2006, 02:17:22 PM »

Then what do you propose you do with the kids who beat the hell out of someone with a metal lock in a sock just for kicks. Remember, he has been through a ton of therapy already from many different counselors. What do you do to change the kid who does this and shows no remorse?

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