Author Topic: Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!  (Read 1257 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« on: October 26, 2006, 08:32:59 PM »
If you have ever been a student at any of the WWASP programs, please take some time and fill out the survey at this link:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=499502766677
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2006, 11:51:21 PM »
Should probably figure out who's receiving the answers to this survey before filling it out. I may have missed it but I didn't see where it said who put this together.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2006, 10:57:55 AM »
As the survey says at the beginning, this survey is being conducted by social work students as part of a senior research project.  One of the student researchers was a student at a WWASP program.

You're participation would be VERY MUCH appreciated!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2006, 10:57:56 AM »
As the survey says at the beginning, this survey is being conducted by social work students as part of a senior research project.  One of the student researchers was a student at a WWASP program.

You're participation would be VERY MUCH appreciated!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2006, 11:53:59 AM »
I notice there is no way to report the negative physical and psychological effects of this treatment. Its entirely about how much dope did you do before and then after.  I suspect all they hope to show is that the average student dose less dope after, than before, if they remained in the treatment long enough. This is of corse a faulty premise, that fails to take other common factors and studies into account.

Do to the lack of ability to fully account for the Program experience I would advise ignoring this survey.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2006, 11:55:09 AM »
Ya it would be nice to know the point of the survey. It only asks about drug use prior to the program and after the program, it doesn't seem to be that extensive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2006, 06:31:15 PM »
I'd be extremely leary of this survey, no person is willing to put their name behind it, or an organization, and it seems to serve no good purpose. Just a thought.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2006, 07:38:55 PM »
Hey it's me, the survey creator again.  You're correct in that the survey is not measuring the treatment measures of the program, and yes the information asked for is very minimal.  Basically all we're measuring is pre and post program drug use according to the Adolscent Drug Involvement Scale, a validated reaserach instrument.  The purpose of the survey is to measure if the program is an effective means of treating adolscent drug use, because all though these programs are NOT licensed to do drug rehab or to detox kids, many students are sent there for those reasons.  Basically we think that any research being done on these schools is better than the current research, which is next to NOTHING!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
go to www.cafety.org if you want to participate in a survey
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2006, 08:27:26 PM »
ASTART has a research project going which seems credible and worthwhile. I think people should all work on one rather than starting up new ones. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. You can find the researc project on www.cafety.org.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2006, 02:13:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey it's me, the survey creator again.  You're correct in that the survey is not measuring the treatment measures of the program, and yes the information asked for is very minimal.  Basically all we're measuring is pre and post program drug use according to the Adolscent Drug Involvement Scale, a validated reaserach instrument.  The purpose of the survey is to measure if the program is an effective means of treating adolscent drug use, because all though these programs are NOT licensed to do drug rehab or to detox kids, many students are sent there for those reasons.  Basically we think that any research being done on these schools is better than the current research, which is next to NOTHING!


Your bias is showing. First, since WWASPS has so many programs, owned and operated by different people, your premise is screwed at square one. Common factors have more to do with marketing than treatment or care. You're treating membership in a business association as if it were a verifiable, consistent, or authentic factor of care or treatment. Why not ask about experience at specific types i.e. boot camps, rtc's, group homes, etc?  I smell a witch hunt.

Second, there is research on a variety of programs. You can start with NATSAP's website, but there's a great deal of information available through the federal government as well. It's largely ignored by the social work and medical advocates because it shows how dismal the success rate of the social work/medical approach is. Are these outfits claiming to be drug treatment centers? Or is drug use co-occurring with other behavioral issues, but not necessarily a case of addiction? It seems to me you're assuming or trying to show that anyone bucking the financially entrenched but stagnant "drug rehab" or medical model is somehow unethical. The facts don't support your premise.

This kind of "research" (anonymous, self-reporting, flawed in approach and reasoning, based on assumed relationships and practices) is scary because non-thinking types will take it seriously.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2006, 02:42:54 PM »
Quote
You can start with NATSAP's website

Why would anyone want to go there? The data was carefully massaged and utterly non-representative of reality. Alternatively they simply made it out of whole cloth; judging from the ethics of its founders, I wouldn't put it past them. Who could disprove it if they did? It's like asking the tobacco companies to do a report on whether smoking causes cancer. "Nope, no cancer here!"

And of course any survey on the Internet has the twin flaws of self-selection bias and zero verification. We have the programmies on one side looking to flood it with bullshit, and since filling out a survey takes time and you're posting it on Fornits, you're going to get not many reports but the angriest of the victims. I'll bet your answers will be a wildly varying mix of decreased drug use and increased drug use, the first total bullshit and the second a combination of self-selected pissed-off victims and some bullshit there as well.

So the choice has become between 'Internet research' (even the term is a joke) and NATSAP make-believe.

Actually, the only real research on the subject that can be even remotely trusted was done by the Surgeon General.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/y ... /sec6.html

Quote
Several popular juvenile justice approaches to preventing further criminal behavior in delinquent youths have been shown to be consistently ineffective: specifically, boot camps, residential programs, milieu treatment, behavioral token programs, and waivers to adult court.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2006, 11:52:31 AM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
Quote
You can start with NATSAP's website

Why would anyone want to go there? The data was carefully massaged and utterly non-representative of reality. Alternatively they simply made it out of whole cloth; judging from the ethics of its founders, I wouldn't put it past them. Who could disprove it if they did? It's like asking the tobacco companies to do a report on whether smoking causes cancer. "Nope, no cancer here!"

And of course any survey on the Internet has the twin flaws of self-selection bias and zero verification. We have the programmies on one side looking to flood it with bullshit, and since filling out a survey takes time and you're posting it on Fornits, you're going to get not many reports but the angriest of the victims. I'll bet your answers will be a wildly varying mix of decreased drug use and increased drug use, the first total bullshit and the second a combination of self-selected pissed-off victims and some bullshit there as well.

So the choice has become between 'Internet research' (even the term is a joke) and NATSAP make-believe.

Actually, the only real research on the subject that can be even remotely trusted was done by the Surgeon General.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/y ... /sec6.html

Quote
Several popular juvenile justice approaches to preventing further criminal behavior in delinquent youths have been shown to be consistently ineffective: specifically, boot camps, residential programs, milieu treatment, behavioral token programs, and waivers to adult court.


I agree that NATSAP tends to be self-serving (to make an understatement) but the study they presented really was as good as anything else out there. NIDA has done quite a bit. Most of the information, including the SG's document to which you refer, summarizes the research available at that time, but fails to present findings of scientific studies. Like the NIH report, most of the documents cited by people pro or con refer specifically to a population whose main issue is violence and whose other issues include homelessness, serious developmental disabilities, etc. It's more applicable (unfortunately) to juvenile facilities than behavioral programs. (The horror there is that in most states there is no distinction; if you're a kid, you're going to land in juvy if you're abandoned or if you're a delinquent. Doing it right is just too expensive, and low-income dysfunctional kids don't have a vote). In addition, calling a treatment approach "ineffective" isn't valid if you don't identify what the goal is. Now THAT question opens a can of worms, and it's only the beginning of the problem with authentic research in this area.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2006, 02:33:28 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
In addition, calling a treatment approach "ineffective" isn't valid if you don't identify what the goal is.


If the industry was being completely honest, they could simply say the goals are (1) relieving struggling parents of the burden of having a difficult teen living in their home, and (2) preventing 'undesirable' behavior while the teen is in their custody.

Those are pretty much the same goals as state-run juvenile detention facilities. The big differences being that teens have rights when the state locks them up vs. no rights when a private corporation locks them up with mom & dad's permission. Oh yeah, and the taxpayers foot the bill when the incarceration is court-ordered. Still, many parents seem to prefer to give their life's savings to private sector detention facilities.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Survey for students who have attended WWASP programs!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2006, 07:26:56 PM »
Both previous Guests make excellent points, except for this:

Quote
I agree that NATSAP tends to be self-serving (to make an understatement) but the study they presented really was as good as anything else out there.


How can it be? It doesn't matter what their methodology or presentation was. The data points they used could easily be heavily filtered or simply made up out of whole cloth. Considering what is known about the ethics of its founders and members (see the HLA board), NATSAP has no credibility. Unless some completely independent third party is able to corroborate their data- a doubtful proposition at best- their study is simply worthless, because they can't be trusted not to have fudged it.

I wish the Surgeon General would commission a new independent study for this, but you're right- what ARE we looking for? Parent satisfaction rates? What are the parents satisfied WITH? (And why am I getting a sinking sensation in my guts when I type that?)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »