,

[Therion]

On 2004-03-07 15:48:00, kalideskoper wrote:

"OH MY GOD!!!!

Hey girl. How you been. I have thought of you so much since straight. You were one of my favorites. You used to make me laugh so much when it was really hard to find things to laugh about. I would love to get caught up.

Anyways, about Kim... I searched for her for about a year. I called the post office, the news paper and her juvenile probation office. I finally made contact w/ her grandmother who told me about the accident. I spoke w/ Kim a couple of times, she was so dear to me. Shortly after out last conversation she was imprisoned. She really had no business going back to her folks. Foster care would have been much better. Anyways, she will always have a special place in my heart as will Ellen Savage... and yourself. "

Hmm I remember you and KIm well..and I wondered what happened to her..
 I remeber Val went with her to...Seattle? Or..
someplace for their 4th or 5th phase vacation..

 And like alot of Kids one day she was just gone..
 I remember her talking about her parents alot..

 She is in jail right now? She had an car accident?

_________________
I'm numb and unfeeling
So I just burn and stare at the ceiling
I'm here, but so far away
I see your mouth movin' but can't hear what you say
And I don't think I give a fuck anyway

[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-03-09 00:18 ]

[kalideskoper]

Last I heard she was in jail. She may or may not have gotten out by now. She had a very bad accident that put her in a wheel chair. She had 3 kids and all of them were taken away from her.

This is a very hard subject for me to share. I don't want anyone passing judgement on her. There are not very many people who have really touched my heart, and like no others and they will forever be dear to me. Kim is a wonderful person and she was possessed by the evils of drugs. SHE IS A WONDERFUL PERSON!!! She unfortunatly lives what she learned growing up and doesn't know any different. I pray for her often and wish I could hug her neck just one more time.

[Anonymous]

I'm right there with you, sister - this is Amy.  i feel so bad for Kim; knowing about the kids makes it even worse.  i hope for better things for her, god knows she deserves it, and never even got a chance.  thanks so much to Straight for kicking her out when her court order ran out - what else could she do but go back to her family and all that shit was just there, waiting for her.  damn.  i would love to hug her too.

take care of yourself.

[Antigen]

You ppl actually think this woman's problems and misfortune are due to her having not spent enough time in the program?! I have news for you! That conclusion is not consistent w/ the (30 years of) evidence.

We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs

[kalideskoper]

No that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that the basis for straight(what I took from it) was the creation of new contacts and life skills to prevent us from repeating the old mistakes that led us to do drugs in the first place. When all you have known or done in your life is drugs and all your family does the same what hope have you to return to that and stay sober. No matter how bad your life was no one can resist that great a temptation. Not to mention the fact that she was not allowed to continue any relationships she  had developed in straight. They sent her home knowing that she would fall. That is straight and the judicial systems fault. She was only 16 years old. Where else could she have gone?

[ This Message was edited by: kalideskoper on 2004-03-12 14:53 ]

[kalideskoper]

Not that anyone is to blame here. As I stated before, she lived what she had been taught, what she lived. She came in very young and had allready been shooting up. What in the hell chance did anyone looking at her situation think was going to happen. Not that I think that was even considered when they kicked her to the curb. They talked about how they cared sooooooo much, but the minute that the funds weren't there, neither was the client. and fuck'em when there gone. I bet you millions that no one ever picked up the phone in the first few days much less the next few years to check on her. "THEY" sent her back to her doooom!!!
That is what I am saying.
Thank you, and that will be all about that!

[Anonymous]

Antigen,

I am no fan of Straight.  That place did far more harm than good to thousands of kidnapped kids (POW's in the American drug war with no wall to mourn them) - no doubt about it.  What we're saying is that Straight's hypocricy is exposed in the case of Kim.  If you don't graduate, what will happen: jail, insanity, or death.  Straight itself proivded the insanity; Kim went off to find near-death, ending up in a wheelchair, losing her kids, and then jail.  Her entire family shot up; Straight knew that and sent her back to the supposed "slaughter" that would be waiting for her.  Ex-druggie friends aren't ok for paying clients, but ex-druggie families simply get problem, poor clients off their backs.  they didn't give a shit; she wasn't bringing in any money, her family wasn't providing a host home.  IF - and this is a big if - IF Straight believed any of the dogma it spouted, it would have done something for Kim other than sending her back to her family of heroin addicts.  You don't have to be brainwashed by Straight to see that that's no way to raise a kid.  That's all.  They fucked her completely - feeding her a line of bullshit and then feeding her to the lions.  I know this is dramatic speech, but it pisses me off.  Now for her to stay in Straight, go on staff, all that route - that, too, would have been a road of nasty and terrible choices.  but in Kim's case, I would have to say that she just might have been better off had she been able to stay in contact with that brief window of the world that the friends she had made in Straight offered her.  She was from "small town" Texas and had never been  given a chance to see a broader view.  When you think about Straight being the vehicle for  providing that broader view, you begin to see how sad this is, all in all.

i don't really care if you think i'm protecting Straight or advocating for its policies.  I'm not.  I'm saying that Kim was completely and utterly fucked by them, that her case in and of itself shows how much they themselves didn't buy into their own propoganda, and i, for one, am sorry about it all.  I've spent a lot of time lately thinking about Kim, and I'm just frankly damn sorry that she went through what she did - and sorrier still that she still is.  

Amy

[kalideskoper]

Well said Amy!!
I think the total point once completely broken down is very simple. You don't drag someone up out of the gutter, show them a better life and then throw them back to the crap they came from. I think it just shoves them farther down into the dispair of their misfortune. The tourture of straight was and could never be what she had to endure once she left the safety of those four walls and friendships.

[Therion]

Like Murder
Stoned I awoke in your temple
To blackness above you
And death beside me
Where kitchen knives conspire
Razor blades make bloodless love
Like Murder
The ghost of a pale girl is solemnly following me
Pale will she follow me
Into the sea
I feel the flowers screaming
To consume you
Like Murder
Earth and sky your cradle
Earth and sky entomb you
And death beside me
I burrow through the dust
In your skull
But I cannot seem to find your soul
Bloodless and numb
We orbit the sun
Hungry will this pale thing
Follow me into the sea
On the cold side of her face
The reptiles awake
Locust swarm from open mouths
That sing thy kingdom come
While blackness hums
Nothing is true
and I'm tired of your sad today
You're screaming because
There's nothing left for you to say
Bloodless and numb
We orbit the sun
Hungry will this pale thing
Follow me into the sea
Stoned I awoke in your temple
To blackness above you
And death beside me
Where kitchen knives conspire
Razor blades make bloodless love
Like Murder

[Anonymous]

You have really awful taste in music, Therion.

[Therion]

On 2004-03-15 06:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You have really awful taste in music, Therion."

Thanks Ill take that as a compliment..
Actually my taste in music is so varied you are in fact multi genre labelling with your comment..
 :wstupid:

[Therion]

Besides thats Acid Bath and they are in fact one of the best bands....ever..

[Therion]

Thought Kaliedescoper was Amy E...
 
 Must have misread..
Amy E posts anon.. wonder if shes one of the therion haters?
 How unfortunate...
 I think she liked to confront me alot..Mabey not..I do remember Vista..
 Actually I probably remember her and Val more than almost anyone at straight...barring staff..and Chris C..and Donny H
 But whatever glad you are alive and well regardless of your sentiments..

[Antigen]

Well, there are a lot of aspects to the Program that I just never bought into.

I got dumped out on my own too. I suppose it makes a difference that I initiated that seperation. My mom and dad stayed thoroughly involved and actively tried to rope me back in for awhile. My older brothers and sisters just didn't want to have anything to do with me or to get dragged into the fight. So I had NO support, none, for awhile.

I crashed at a bachelor pad for a couple of months while earning some cash working at local restaurants. Sure I fucked the guy. Why not? He was good looking, friendly and never made any demands. The weekend fundraiser parties didn't bother me in the least, except that the strain of pot they were selling was a variety that just gave me a headache and a lot of paranoia. So I just passed on that and went about scraping up enough dough to start thinking about what I wanted to do with all my hard earned freedom.

Naturally enough, I wanted family. So I latched onto some loser and had his baby. He turned out to be a crackhead and is now serving two 15 year sentences in Florida State prison. Out of that, I got some considerable comeupance and a devistatingly beautiful, charming and loving daughter. Even some of his extended family have turned out to be good friends. I'm sure I got the better end of the deal.

If I'd set out to avoid drugs and all people who use them, I would have been completely alone. Fortunately, I was not very phobic about drugs. If I'd bought into the bullshit that Program philosophy was the only alternative to death and dispair, I would have been thoroughly screwed. I didn't buy into that either.

So why didn't you folks get in touch with this girl as soon after the Program as possible? Has anyone dropped her a line lately?

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson  

[Antigen]

That was a little harsh. Sorry. It didn't come out the way I meant it.

I suppose I'm just thrown by the idea that anyone seriously bought into the false imperative, Straight or death and missery, in the long term. That's just sad as hell.

Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
--Friedrich Nietzsche