SUE SCHEFF and ISABELLE ZENDHER (PURE, CAICA, WWASP lawsuit)

[Dr Fucktard]

SIBS -- The Wave of the Future in Drug Treatment?

[Anonymous]

You totally missed the point CCM girl.  Scheff and P.U.R.E. are the mini version of Robert Lichfield and WWASP or his marketing agents.  Remember Sue was one Bob's top marketers.  There have been other P.U.R.E. programs with abuse charges and Sheff contues to refer. Sue scheff and P.U.R.E. have done nothing but confuse and use parents while pretening to understand and help.

You are naive.

[Dr Fucktard]

None of those programs can hold a candle to the quality treatment available at SIBS! Send us your little druggie today!

[Anonymous]

My dearest Ginger,

What do you have against me Love? I ask and ask you for my own space on your web site but you ignore me. Why my dearest?

Is it something Iv'e done? Do you hate me?   :roll:

Please respond by midnight tonight or I'll turn into a vampire.


 ::dove::

[Anonymous]

Oooohh... Sue... It's after midnight... Suck me DRY, baby...

[CCM girl 1989]

You totally missed the point CCM girl.  Scheff and P.U.R.E. are the mini version of Robert Lichfield and WWASP or his marketing agents.  Remember Sue was one Bob's top marketers.  There have been other P.U.R.E. programs with abuse charges and Sheff contues to refer. Sue scheff and P.U.R.E. have done nothing but confuse and use parents while pretening to understand and help.

You are naive.

I may be naive........I don't claim to know it all. I will continue to learn, and investigate with the time that I have to spend on it. I have only been around fornits for a year, I don't know all the players.

Anyway, I was in two programs.........one which wasn't a WWASP school called Heritage in Provo Utah from 1-86 until 5-89 then a WWASP school by the name of Cross Creek Manor located in La Verkin, Utah from 5-89 until 2-90. If you have any questions about either of these programs feel free to contact me.

I'm just going to leave it at that!

[Anonymous]

CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.

I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.

[Nihilanthic]

CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.

I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.

Youre trying to make it seem like what Sue is doing is somehow acceptable. Its not a case of "oh just ignore her or hear her side of the story bla bla bla", its a case of shes hijacking credibility from our actions to make a buck sending kids to the programs shes picked for whatever reason to send them to, for the kickback money they give her... and hide from us what programs they are!

Shes doing the EXACT same thing WWASPS does iwth its programs, except her entire thing is "well, wwasps is bad, and we're gonna fight that abuse.. but Ill find GOOD PROGRAMS!!! GIMME UR KID" in a nutshell.

However, this does nothing to address program abuse, the lack of oversight, the lack of any way for a kid in a program to escape if they are abused or tell anyone they ARE being abused, this doesnt make programs operate cleanly, safely, and nonabusively, this doesnt make them actually treat anything, and it doesnt do anything about kids with nothing wrong being thrown away in programs without any rights to not be locked up if nothing is wrong with them!

That is not tolerable. This isnt whack a mole, and whack WWASPS first... this is a case of shes doing the same thing as WWASPS, just pointing a finger at them and saying shes not doing it, yet she is! If it was ONLY Sue and her programs, that would still be a bad thing, and Ive said why in the previous paragraph.

[Troubled Turd]

Well said, Niles.

[Anonymous]

Kids don't deserve no goddamn rights, cuz they ain't no better than a bunch of fuckin NIGGERS! If mine ever try to "assert their rights" I'm gonna drag 'em out to the woodshed and tear up their uppity little asses!

[CCM girl 1989]

CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.

I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.

And how do you suggest I do this? What am I supposed to do, take out newspaper advertisements on edjucating parents in regards to TBS's, BMOD's, and Wilderness Programs? Good programs vs. bad programs? Then how do I go about edjucating parents without getting my little tail sued off? Oh, and god forbid I receive payment for doing this, because then I would be just as bad as Sue, and the rest! Or should I just do it from the money outta my pocket, and go broke to save the world?

You tell me! BTW- I have written letters, I have signed petitions, I have contacted news agencies. Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.

[Dr Phil]

CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.

I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.

I am wondering how many kids do you think were prevented from being sent to abusive programs because of letters written to legislators. I'm curious if you believe you can reach more people with your message by speaking to groups of folks in person, or by using the internet?

Call me crazy, but I bet fornits discussions have prevented many more kids from being sent away because parents search and find this site. As much as people dislike fornits, it's one of the few methods that actually work in preventing kids from being abused, by educating those who are ignorant. How many people has fornits inspired to take on teen industry abuse as an issue important to them?

I find your last remark ironic because fornits is the only site that does allow two sides to the story. Everyone else moderates their sites to fit their agenda.

[Dr Phil]

Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.

That is exactly how WWASPS and other people making their living off programs want you to feel. If you feel that way, you will not speak out, and if you do there will always be a caveat about allowable programs, and the abusive programs can always hide in that wiggle room.

So long as there is forced treatment on unwilling subjects, abuse will exist. There is 100%, absolutely no way around that fact; no matter how much the teen industry profiteers would like us to forget.

[CCM girl 1989]

Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.

That is exactly how WWASPS and other people making their living off programs want you to feel. If you feel that way, you will not speak out, and if you do there will always be a caveat about allowable programs, and the abusive programs can always hide in that wiggle room.

So long as there is forced treatment on unwilling subjects, abuse will exist. There is 100%, absolutely no way around that fact; no matter how much the teen industry profiteers would like us to forget.

Okay, I've hit a dead end street, I don't know about the rest of you?!! There is always going to be programs out there that are abusive. My goal is to weed those out. Families need help, and their kids deserve to have it, in a loving and caring enviroment. I was a pain in the butt kid, but I had real shitty parenting. Had I had the opportunity to go into somebody elses home that did have a great family unit/structure I would've jumped at it!!!! I probably would have excelled in that enviroment.

Unfortunately, I didn't and I got stuck in these programs for 4+ years of my life from ages 12-16. I came out with more problems then I came in with. My parents substitutted their responsbility for parenting, and replaced it with these schools (Heritage, and Cross Creek Manor). I needed a place that provided therapy for my abandoment issues, and people who cared about me. Instead I got thrown into these schools where I barely had any contact with my family. Year after year went by.........my goals came and went of returning home. There was always some excuse why I needed to stay longer. Finally when i reached my 4th consequetive year I asked my therapist point blank.....am I ever leaving? Is there anything I can do to be able to go home?

He just shook his head, and said I am really sorry but I'm afraid you are going to be here until you're 18. That's when I got the "Fuck It Attitude" I did somethings I regret, I hurt some people in the process, but in the end I jumped from the window and ran like hell in the middle of the night with staff chasing after me. I was able to get away for a few weeks before I called my shrink and was told to talk to my parents about living on my own. They gave me a small amount of money per month until my 18th b-day. About 6 months before my b-day my aunt and uncle gave me the opportunity to come out to Northern California to finish high school. I took them up on it, and the rest is history.

Had I had them when I was 12 I would've been fine. I am forever grateful for them, and I didn't find out until later they had wanted to adopt me at age 9 but my parents wouldn't allow it. God forbid they were the problem, and not me, and that would've been proven by me going to my aunt and uncles at an earlier age. Let's face it my friends there are people out there who clearly don't want to be parents anymore.

[CCM girl 1989]

Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.

That is exactly how WWASPS and other people making their living off programs want you to feel. If you feel that way, you will not speak out, and if you do there will always be a caveat about allowable programs, and the abusive programs can always hide in that wiggle room.

So long as there is forced treatment on unwilling subjects, abuse will exist. There is 100%, absolutely no way around that fact; no matter how much the teen industry profiteers would like us to forget.

Okay, I've hit a dead end street, I don't know about the rest of you?!! There is always going to be programs out there that are abusive. My goal is to weed those out. Families need help, and their kids deserve to have it, in a loving and caring enviroment. I was a pain in the butt kid, but I had real shitty parenting. Had I had the opportunity to go into somebody elses home that did have a great family unit/structure I would've jumped at it!!!! I probably would have excelled in that enviroment.

Unfortunately, I didn't and I got stuck in these programs for 4+ years of my life from ages 12-16. I came out with more problems then I came in with. My parents substitutted their responsbility for parenting, and replaced it with these schools (Heritage, and Cross Creek Manor). I needed a place that provided therapy for my abandoment issues, and people who cared about me. Instead I got thrown into these schools where I barely had any contact with my family. Year after year went by.........my goals came and went of returning home. There was always some excuse why I needed to stay longer. Finally when i reached my 4th consequetive year I asked my therapist point blank.....am I ever leaving? Is there anything I can do to be able to go home?

He just shook his head, and said I am really sorry but I'm afraid you are going to be here until you're 18. That's when I got the "Fuck It Attitude" I did somethings I regret, I hurt some people in the process, but in the end I jumped from the window and ran like hell in the middle of the night with staff chasing after me. I was able to get away for a few weeks before I called my shrink and was told to talk to my parents about living on my own. They gave me a small amount of money per month until my 18th b-day. About 6 months before my b-day my aunt and uncle gave me the opportunity to come out to Northern California to finish high school. I took them up on it, and the rest is history.

Had I had them when I was 12 I would've been fine. I am forever grateful for them, and I didn't find out until later they had wanted to adopt me at age 9 but my parents wouldn't allow it. God forbid they were the problem, and not me, and that would've been proven by me going to my aunt and uncles at an earlier age. Let's face it my friends there are people out there who clearly don't want to be parents anymore.