Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > PURE Bullshit and CAICA
SUE SCHEFF and ISABELLE ZENDHER (PURE, CAICA, WWASP lawsuit)
Nihilanthic:
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---Real quick, I like the halfway house idea. But, there needs to be rules, and structure. You should have someone who lives on premise. You should also have some kind of life coach that can help direct/guide you. As a teenager you are not equipped with the wisdom of how the world works.
--- End quote ---
"Life coach" is a big fat red flag here. If you mean a counselor, sure. If you mean LGAT style bullshit and new-agey nonsense, then... not just no, HELL no! Any EST style bullshit should be nipped in the bud.
Another thing I wonder is why you say "rules and structure" as if its not a given. Do you mean normal structure, like what is normal everywhere else? I figured it was... um... normal.
Do you mean anything special at all, besides just cleaning up after yourself, not starting fights, etc? Im sorry to push the point, but most of the time when 'structure' is thrown aroudn as a necessity and a point made of it (nobody goes out of their way to say indoor plumbing) it usually means something authoritarian and fun things taken away as a matter of course.
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---Sometimes, kids that are really fucked up by their parents and upbringing need to be in a controlled enviroment to prevent them from doing harm to themselves, or others. Until they can get themselves under control, they shouldn't be allowed to have the freedom to wander on and off campus.
--- End quote ---
Define controlled environment, and define "out of control". Thats extremely general! Its not a normal upbringing to be confined and not have the ability to socialize or exercise any freedom!
Also, in the MEDICAL PROFESSION... youre only locked up if its NECESSARY. If its not necessary, its unethical to lock them up.
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---It's not their fault, it's their parents fault. In the end kids pay the price. I am sorry there is nothing I can do about it. It's the parents who are to blame. Not me.
--- End quote ---
I agree, but you cant be general about this or go talking about what you feel kids need and not explain what you mean, nor are you an expert on the matter... and you have to respect a persons natural right to freedom, and not just walk all over them becuase they're not 18 yet.
As you yourself said, someone shoving shit down your throat would piss you off. How is pulling some kid out of the world and throwing them in some lockup gonna make them happy or want to work with you? Friendship, freedom, etc, are NECESSITIES.
Also, ironically, the one thing found to lower recidivism (not bootcamps or programs with which there is any acutal information) is GETTING A JOB AND MAKING YOUR OWN DECISIONS.
Its just what the facts are.
Nihilanthic:
Ok, heres an example of what Im talking about.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856
That is something Id agree with, but I wouldnt call it a program... and it would also do a far better job of getting someone ready for the real world, and not an institution.
CCM girl 1989:
Sorry Niles I don't know what else to call it?! There are people who coach kids in life and how the real world works. I named it a life coach! As far as the seminar stuff goes, I am way against that, and always have been.
When I say structure, I mean a normal amount of structure. I did look up Helena Handsbaskets post, and that is more of what I am invisioning. I do think the curfew of midnight during the week is a tad bit too liniant. I would put that at 10:00pm unless it was a job that kept you later. 1am is fine for the weekend.
So, if they could have places more like that for kids to transition into I would be happy.
Nihilanthic:
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---Sorry Niles I don't know what else to call it?! There are people who coach kids in life and how the real world works. I named it a life coach! As far as the seminar stuff goes, I am way against that, and always have been.
When I say structure, I mean a normal amount of structure. I did look up Helena Handsbaskets post, and that is more of what I am invisioning. I do think the curfew of midnight during the week is a tad bit too liniant. I would put that at 10:00pm unless it was a job that kept you later. 1am is fine for the weekend.
So, if they could have places more like that for kids to transition into I would be happy.
--- End quote ---
Ok, so we've finally reached a reasonable, specific "good thing".
One point. Why do you see leniency as bad? The point isnt to control them, its to teach them how to control themselves. Besides, if theyre going to school and working, they should be tired anyway!
My point is this: if you make them do something, they'll fight you. If you let them decide on their own and start growing up and actually learning to make decisons, they'll start to grow up and get more out of you.
This is why something like THAT can work, because theyre the ones taking the reigns, and youre just letting them go... not MAKING THEM. See?
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" --- [
Look, there are good programs
--- End quote ---
::noway:: ::noway::
--- End quote ---
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
--- End quote ---
Back off little girl. I was in one and I'm a parent. It's my fucking opinion that there are NO GOOD PROGRAMS.
--- End quote ---
Whether there are still any in existence is the question.
I posted this a while ago.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856
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