Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > PURE Bullshit and CAICA
SUE SCHEFF and ISABELLE ZENDHER (PURE, CAICA, WWASP lawsuit)
CCM girl 1989:
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--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" --- [
Look, there are good programs
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::noway:: ::noway::
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I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" --- [
Look, there are good programs
--- End quote ---
::noway:: ::noway::
--- End quote ---
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
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Back off little girl. I was in one and I'm a parent. It's my fucking opinion that there are NO GOOD PROGRAMS.
CCM girl 1989:
You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
Nihilanthic:
--- Quote ---Niles, were you ever in a program? You can replace a family if you so desire. Friends become your family. Famlily isn't just family because there is blood relation. As far as communities go, people and their families move all the time and are forced to make new friends and adjust all the time. You just moved to Florida, I am sure you are out of your comfort zone, but hopefully you are able to adapt comfortably.
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Please dont say 'comfort zone'. Im sick of the buzzwords... really sick of it! There is no intrinsic gain from "putting people out of their comfort zone" for the sake of it any more than thinking that suffering breeds personal growth blah blah blah. Not trying to yell at you, but it drives me up a fucking wall. I cant stand it. Same for "thrive in structured environment" and other glossy brocure-speak.
Anyway, the point is you cant just go "ok you have to love and respect and bond with these people becuase youre living in this institution now" and honestly expect people to do that. I dont like the idea of someone FORCING a bond or FORCING 'respect' or FORCING new arbitrary rules on me. Then again, I've never had a problem with starting shit, cleaning up after myself, and basic hygene anyway. I do know whenever someone ARBITRARILY institutes 'new rules' its rarely for a good reason and pisses me off.
And um the point isn't about taking shit away and "out of the comfort zone" to make them adapt and change and grow and thrive and BLAH BLAH BLAH all the time. I want stability, I dont want arbitrary authority doing this and that for no reason, and the thing is, I dont see the efficacy of it.
--- Quote ---What do you mean that sometimes institutions and foster parents have their own seperate ideas of how to parent, and what a kid should do or not do, and that's never a good thing for kids to go through?!! I can't believe you say that!!!!!! Are you fucking kidding me Niles! I don't even know how to respond to that one?!!!! It's never a good thing because he's learning how to behave from someone other then his own flesh and blood? That's ridiculous.
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Please rephrase that, becuase that didnt make any sense.
--- Quote ---Look, there are good programs, there are bad programs. You as parents, if you cannot and do not want to take on the responsibility to parent anymore, that's fine. But, in making that decision when you are deciding to send your flesh and blood away you better damn well make sure it is to a place that they are going to be well cared for. None of these split second decisions having them enrolled after seeing a few glossy brochures and talking to a slick sales person who doesn't know squat about the program except for what the program wants them to know. If you don't do investigating on your own, and ask the questions, and go out there and visit, then you are pathetic, and selfish, and cruel to not care about what happens to your child.
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Nobody can even define what a good program is, so how do you know any exist? Nobody can say that a program actually works, or how it works, or what necessitates being sent to one!
--- Quote ---You should always be able to have phone conversations at anytime with your child, and they should be able to call you anytime they want. If kids are doing well enough, there should be a program, and there is in some places where it's called transition. You live with a family, and go to regular high school. You make new friends. In life I am constantly out of my comfort zone, by meeting new people, constantly interviewing for the perfect job. I keep my old friends too, but to remove a child from it's community isn't always a bad thing. In every move of my life i have always had the opportunity to recreate myself, and leave the past behind when moving. Eventually you learn, and don't make so many poor decisions.
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Ok, so what exactly dictates when they should be institutionalized and put in a bubble world? What dictates when they can "Transition" inbetween towards the real world again? AND STOP FUCKING SAYING COMFORT ZONE. STOP USING BUZZWORDS!
Its not always a "bad thing" to take a kid out, but it will instigate stress, period, which is my point. Stress is not good! Stress is BAD! Stressing people is a great way to break them down and the tuff love idjits like to believe in it, but I try to AVOID stress. Ive had nothing BUT stress all of my adult life, and when I hear 'comfort zone' I want to dropkick the person who says it.
--- Quote ---Life isn't perfect, and kids shouldn't be left in a dysfunctional enviroment whether it's at home, or in an instituition or program. There are alternatives. Sitting back and doing nothing, and expecting the kids to make all the adjustments in a fucked up family is asinine.
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I know, I dont think its a good idea to let people sit in bad environemts either. My point is you should start letting them get jobs and take their own path, not shoving them into more obedience-training institutions. I have a friend who is 17, her dad and stepmom treat her like shit, they read her diary looking for evidence of using drugs and found her stepdad abused her, and are FORCING HER UNDER DURESS to press charges, bla bla bla. She gets good grades, and what do they do? BITCH ABOUT A B GRADE! Not ONE complement. Her stepmom also treats her daughter better than my friend.
Know what she needs? Her dad to stop making her quit jobs, and to go get and keep a fucking job, get her own place, finish her last few credits in highschool and go on with her life, not be put in some fucking institution. And you know what else? A LOT of kids are in that situation and a LOT of people need to grow upand stop being treated like little kids. Not some "good program".
The solution to everything isnt some fucking program or institution or 'place to be sent with 'structure' and taking you out of your comfort zone'. There isnt some magical good program somewhere that nobody can even start to define! Some people are ready to grow up and they need to grow up instead of being shoved back into obedience because someone thinks so but cant even define why!
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989"" ---You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
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In a behavior modification facility. 33? Well, I got at least 10 years on ya.
Yes, there are 12 year olds out there having babies. Your solution is to lock them up?
Dumbass. :roll:
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