More bullshit advice from ST

[AtomicAnt]

Actually, Ed-Cons are the individuals that lack competency and qualifications. They cannot call themselves therapists, so they use the term Educational Consultant (any asshole can be a consultant). They are not qualified nor licensed to make a diagnosis or recommend courses of treatment for anybody. Ed-Con is just a fancy term for salesman. They are selling programs the same way an Insurance Agent sells insurance. They sell the program that pays them the best.

The reason program parents don't like therapists is simple. Therapists are liable to tell the parents the truth; things the parents aren't willing to accept or are in denial of. The parents believe the Ed-Con because the Ed-Con tells them exactly what they want to hear.

Therapists will diagnose and follow a proven path of treatment. That requires hard work on the part of the parents. It requires lots of time, patience, and effort. It requires the knowledge that growth and change are not linear processes and there will be set backs. It requires parents to listen to criticism of their parenting and make difficult changes in themselves and their lives to assist their kids. It requires acceptance that it may not work.

Ed-Cons offer a linear process that is much easier for the parent.  They support and praise the parent, blame the kid, and allow the parent to cop out. They make useless, unrealistic guarentees. Desperate parents drink this up like the snake oil it is.

Programs use inescapable, catch 22 logic and ignorant parents fall for it. If the program is failing, it is because the kid is balking at 'working the program.' If wilderness made no changes, it wasn't long enough. Send the kid to TBS. They will keep the kid as long as it takes to force change there. How can they fail? If it does fail, it is time for the exit plan. They have their money, just dump the kid. It is the kid's choices that led them their (yeah, right) and the parents can go on in their denial, thinking they did everything they could. The programs and Ed-Cons will reassure them they did.

These con artists are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Anonymous]

The really sad thing is that the marketing of this industry has gotten SOOO slick. A salesman who sells behavior mod programs calls himself an "Educational Consultant," and yet he is not a certified teacher or a certified therapist, but cheerfully advises parents on matters that have life-long consequences for their child's education, not to mention their child's physical and emotional well-being.

It should be illegal -- just as illegal as if I start calling myself a therapist and start charging patients for my mental health advice.

[Oz girl]

"Our issue is that we have planned for our son who just finished 11th grade(at TBS), to finish his senior year at his TBS and will graduate (academically) the end of August. He has not taken SAT's or ACT's but will have taken both within the month. In short, it is way too late to apply for this fall to college.
The plan is for him to take a few classes at a local community college and get a part-time job. He will need to look into programs, visit colleges etc.. as soon as he comes home in the fall. "

i note that nothing about these statements mentions what the kids thoughts are. I hope that he wants to spend a few years at 'community college" I guess it is too bloddy bad if he does not!  nothing about the post suggests that the boy has any say in his own future.
BTW- What is the difference between community college and normal university? Would you not still have to apply?

[Anonymous]

Community college is a 2 year college where you can get an "associates degree" instead of a 4 year bachelor's degree, or you can just take classes for awhile and transfer them (usually) to a regular university. A lot of people who aren't ready for a regular university or don't meet the admission requirements will go to community college for awhile as a stepping stone to the real deal, since they could get accepted to university later if they do well at the CC. Yes you still have to apply.

Some (most?) kids who spend their last year or two of high school in a Program may be behind academically compared to kids who went to a regular public high school, so community college might be their only choice.

You're right, it doesn't sound like this kid has much choice about his future. Even if he does have a choice, his options are more limited after finishing high school in a "school" that wasn't really a school.

[Helena Handbasket]

I note a lot of strggling teens parents claim they don't trust the advice of trained local therapists. i think it is because the therapist may often advise that sending a troubled kid into isolation from their comminuty is a BAD idea!
What i dont get is that they will question this but be far more passive about the advice of an Ed con who may be getting kickbacks from a gulag in a largely unregulated industry & who has no provable independence whatsoever.
perhaps in some cases, it is not about helping the kid but letting someone else deal with a child who is a pain in the arse!

Actually, that's not it.  The problem with most therapists is that they lack adequate competence with the issues being presented ... period.  Certainly that is too often the case.  Session after session of "how do you feel about that", "what did you do about it", and back to "how do you feel about that" without advice doesn't help someone get a grip on today.

Have you even taken Psych 101?   The therapists JOB is to get the client to think[/i] and assess a situation, figure out how they feel about it, figure out WHY they feel a particular way, figure out what they can do about it, and how they can take steps to change it.

You know, much like TBSs claim to do... but without the degradation and prison like atmosphere.  

It is a minority of therapists who understand the range of alternatives, including different therapeutic approaches they could take.  Those different approaches might start with involving the whole family in communication sessions - although sometimes the therapists themselves have their own communicatioin issues, so would be a poor teacher of others.

Wow, looks like we're dealing with a long time scholar here, folks...

What the hell do you think therapist spend six years studying?

The other matter is that for a therapist to advise "sending the kid away" is tantamount to admitting they can't get important change to come about - they "failed".  So ego keeps them from recommending what can be very useful things (tho you wouldn't agree; another issue).  Of course, often they know nothing about such schools/programs anyway, so it isn't even a matter of the local therapist thinking something a bad idea so much as not even knowing.

You're not the biggest moron we've seen around here... but if you keep going with your analysis, you could be a finalist.   :lol:

[Anonymous]

Dear ena ket,

a) What [how much] do you know about cognitive therapy?

b) "What the hell do you think therapist spend six years studying?"  Beats me!

c) Did you learn it all in your gulag?

Sincerely,
your candidate

[Helena Handbasket]

Dear ena ket,

Interesting abbreviation.  My Gestalt is very much intact as well.

a) What [how much] do you know about cognitive therapy?

Enough to wear a Psi Chi T-shirt and pass the finals.

b) "What the hell do you think therapist spend six years studying?"  Beats me!

Then maybe you should have educated yourself before spouting off.

c) Did you learn it all in your gulag?


Sincerely,
your candidate

 Here's your sign.

[Anonymous]

HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481

  posted August 15, 2006 11:54 AM                        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need a recommendation for a drug test solely for THC that can detect continuing use. The drug tests I use (urine test) have a panel for THC but are not as accurate as I need right now. I have not had any luck with hair tests. I vaguely recall some discussion of this in the past year or so and would greatly appreciate any suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 66 | From: los angeles | Registered: Nov 2004  |  Logged: 64.14.248.62 |  
 
heleneb
Member
Member # 4818

  posted August 15, 2006 02:25 PM                        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HappyTheyreAlive,

My son had a terrible problem with marijuana use. The over-the-counter test kits only measure IF there is THC in the urine. As you know, THC can be present for almost 30 days. The more one smokes, the more cummulative the level and the longer it takes to leave the body (it is stored in fat).
We knew that he was smoking, we knew that it wasn't just recreational use and we wanted some way to follow the actual levels of THC. I think some rehabs can run what it called a "QUANTITATIVE" test (as opposed to just the qualitative tests in the OTC kits). We obtained a urine sample every Friday and had it mailed to the MAYO Clinic who were able to analyze how much THC was in the sample. We were able to see if the levels were rising or falling (in our son's case- they never fell and were off the charts, hence his being sent to WC/TBS). You will probably need a doctor's Rx (my husband was able to write for it) and insurance may NOT cover it. But it gave us the information we needed to see if our son was cutting down on his use. We had proof in black and white numbers that he was smoking almost every day.
PS For some kids, knowing that they are being monitored by a lab may just be enough of a deterant. Unfortunately for us, it didn't work that way. Good luck! Helene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 168 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005  |  Logged: 151.201.45.197 |





I can't believe parents have sunk this low.  Tested quantitatively at the fucking Mayo clinic on a weekly basis?  Goose-stepping, step-craft, police-state parents. ::noway::  :cry:

[Anonymous]

Abbey
Member
Member # 644

  posted August 12, 2006 12:27 PM                          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your legal responsibilities do vary from state to state. When we were in CA, if our son left (either by his choice or ours), we would be held liable for anything he does until the legal age of 18. We were so concerned about this that we hired an attorney to protect ourselves. From the age of 13 on he was never in our house more than a few weeks at a time. He was a runner and a severe addict.

It does sound that your son has a lot of positives going on, but at the same time, you have the right to enforce rules that are important to you. I can completely understand why he would want to be a 'normal' teen (is there such a thing?  ), but I would have hoped that in RTC he learned the dangers of being an addict of any kind of substance.

On a personal note, if I could do things all over for our son, I would have kicked him out well before 18. It wouldn't be the booting on the street, but helped him establish a life outside of our house. Our relationship deteriorated so much during the last 2 years he was somewhat at home that right now there is no contact. In the end, the prison system ended up with him, which is where he is serving his 3rd stint right now for a minimum of 10 years. If we didn't have the day to day battles, maybe we'd have some sort of relationship.

Now, my son's case is extreme. Any possible placement was made for him. RTCs, group homes, juvenile hall, wilderness programs...nothing worked because HE didn't want it to work. Well, now he's got the consequence. I think we could have parted the Red Sea and it wouldn't have made a difference. Your son doesn't seem anywhere near this extreme action.

It sounds like your family has some great dialogue going on, which is critical. Only you know when the line is crossed...just make sure your son knows where that line is. Finally, if you draw the 'line,' then back down, you've just set a strong precedence. Be willing to follow through.

ps...my son is actually almost 23 now. My profile is far outdated.

Abbey

[ August 12, 2006, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Abbey ]

--------------------
19 y/o son - incarcerated CA prison







Abbey
Member
Member # 644

  posted August 15, 2006 06:20 PM                          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a barely middle class family, I would really think about the option of an RTC again. We did it more times than I can remember, remortgaged our house, etc. We couldn't financially do it anymore. We were, and still are completely spent from this venture. We're teachers...we don't have endless money. I still feel if the teen is not into the intervention, there is not much to be had by the experience.

On the issue of staying with friends, well, that doesn't seem to last too long. The other 'loving' family grows weary of the crap like you did. He'll most likely be knocking on your door in a few months or sooner. Have a plan. The other perspective is if it works...wonderful! I know when we gave up custody to the state of CA (which was VERY hard to do just so he could get mental services) people kind of scorned us for doing so. My thought was...if he connects with a family, I'm thrilled. It's better than what he's getting now. It didn't work, but we were no worse off. At least he was receiving state services.

Trust your heart. Your know your family and your son. All you can do is try your best.

Abbey

[Anonymous]

HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481

  posted August 15, 2006 11:54 AM                        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need a recommendation for a drug test solely for THC that can detect continuing use. The drug tests I use (urine test) have a panel for THC but are not as accurate as I need right now. I have not had any luck with hair tests. I vaguely recall some discussion of this in the past year or so and would greatly appreciate any suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 66 | From: los angeles | Registered: Nov 2004  |  Logged: 64.14.248.62 |  
 
heleneb
Member
Member # 4818

  posted August 15, 2006 02:25 PM                        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HappyTheyreAlive,

My son had a terrible problem with marijuana use. The over-the-counter test kits only measure IF there is THC in the urine. As you know, THC can be present for almost 30 days. The more one smokes, the more cummulative the level and the longer it takes to leave the body (it is stored in fat).
We knew that he was smoking, we knew that it wasn't just recreational use and we wanted some way to follow the actual levels of THC. I think some rehabs can run what it called a "QUANTITATIVE" test (as opposed to just the qualitative tests in the OTC kits). We obtained a urine sample every Friday and had it mailed to the MAYO Clinic who were able to analyze how much THC was in the sample. We were able to see if the levels were rising or falling (in our son's case- they never fell and were off the charts, hence his being sent to WC/TBS). You will probably need a doctor's Rx (my husband was able to write for it) and insurance may NOT cover it. But it gave us the information we needed to see if our son was cutting down on his use. We had proof in black and white numbers that he was smoking almost every day.
PS For some kids, knowing that they are being monitored by a lab may just be enough of a deterant. Unfortunately for us, it didn't work that way. Good luck! Helene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 168 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005  |  Logged: 151.201.45.197 |





I can't believe parents have sunk this low.  Tested quantitatively at the fucking Mayo clinic on a weekly basis?  Goose-stepping, step-craft, police-state parents. ::noway::  :cry:

It's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.  

[Anonymous]

If these Struggling Parents talked to their kids only half as much as they talk to each other---they just might accidently build some type of workable relationship with their own child. What a thought, huh?

[Anonymous]

If these Struggling Parents talked to their kids only half as much as they talk to each other---they just might accidently build some type of workable relationship with their own child. What a thought, huh?

Very true, but communication requires two participants, and some relationships get so dysfunctional that communication can become nearly impossible.

That doesn't mean the kid -- or the parent -- needs a "program." But they usually both need counseling at that point.

[Troll Control]

i have a sinking suspiscion that every single "struggling teen" has been incarcerated in a kiddie jail.

http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... category=1

not a single post in seven days.  the final solution must have been implemented...

[Anonymous]

Why is it that you care about Struggling Teens?  Could it be that those posters have figured out that you will copy and paste their posts here to abuse them?  The only way any of you can make a difference is by getting the information and then, with a bit of patience and brains, make your case about the programs being abusive.  Chasing off differing opinions in a childish manner makes this forum a very boring one sided argument.  It used to be somewhat informative and interesting to debate the subject with The Who and some of the others but sadly, I think they've left you to moan on your own.  My guess is that the parents on ST have resorted to PMs which, I think is very smart on their part.

[Anne Bonney]

It's harder than you think though.  Take a look at the Hyde forum.  I've been trying to engage in a rational discussion there for a while now.  No luck.  

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17154

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17019&start=0


There is a decent discussion re: AA and it's methodology here which I think directly relates to the teen mindfuck industry though.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17266