Author Topic: Has anyone tried this?  (Read 1726 times)

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Offline marika708

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Has anyone tried this?
« on: January 21, 2003, 10:23:00 AM »
My husband and I were discussing the effectiveness of the different attempts made by the survivors thus far.  He brought up a point that I've not seen raised anywhere yet, but I wanted to see if anyone had tried this or not.  Has anyone tried going to the insurance companies that are paying for the treatment on the current "facilities" and bringing it to their attention that these places are abusive, staffed by unqualified personnel, in violation of civil rights, etc, etc...  It makes sense to me to go after the funding but I thought I'd ask and see what you all thought.  

Marika

God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
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arika
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Offline GregFL

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Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2003, 11:46:00 AM »
There is an insurance company responding right now to a federal lawsuit against SAFE. they know the allegations and it is up to them to make decisions based on risk.

There is no proper way to notify them other than to let them respond to the allegations in court. Believe me that there will be a like response by them come renewal time.

The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad.
-- Salvador Dali

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Offline GregFL

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Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2003, 12:14:00 PM »
I think I misread your post the first time. I alluded to the professional liability carriers in my response.

You apparently were talking about the health care providers. They typically don't restrict acess to based on style of treatment, but most have severly limited paying for most of the treatment for all long term type residential care.

This has been cited as a reason, for example, of SAFE only having 18 current enrollees.

However, going to say BCBS and saying "You shouldn't pay for treatment to SAFE, they are guilty of (fill in the blank) opens a HUGE can of worms legally. You would have to reduce your accusations to writing then sit back and wait for the process server to show up at your door with the Libel papers. Anonymous tips wouldn't be taken seriously.

Most health providers are pretty savy and severly limit payment to these types of institutions. This leaves the parents to fund the treatment on their own, and it has gotten VERY expensive.

I predict SAFE will close within one year.

Thought that is silenced is always rebellious. Majorities, of course, are often mistaken. This is why the silencing of minorities is necessarily dangerous. Criticism and dissent are the indispensable antidote to major delusions.
--  ALAN BARTH, The Loyalty of Free Men, 1951.

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Offline Antigen

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Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2003, 04:18:00 PM »
They're down to 18 clients. And even as far back as 2000, client families were finding out AFTER they'd signed the contracts and ponied up several thousand dollars that their insurance wouldn't reemberse them after all.

Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom.  It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave.  
-- William Pitt, 1763

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Offline marika708

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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2003, 05:30:00 PM »
>>>However, going to say BCBS and saying "You shouldn't pay for treatment to SAFE, they are guilty of (fill in the blank) opens a HUGE can of worms legally. You would have to reduce your accusations to writing then sit back and wait for the process server to show up at your door with the Libel papers. Anonymous tips wouldn't be taken seriously.<<<<

In other words, we are willing to do all these affadavits and contact senators, congressmen, the UN, Amnesty International, and whatever else I'm probably forgetting but we can't send our information to Blue Cross Blue Shield...

Am I missing something?

I hope I don't sound flip, that is not my intent, and I readily admit to be very new to the "movement", but I really don't understand this logic.  

Thanks,

Marika

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.

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arika
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2003, 07:06:00 PM »
Marika, you don't sound flip to me. That is a legitimate question and I will try to answer it seriously.




I for one will never sign an affidavit that accuses people of unprosecutable crimes. But hey, that is me. I have been doing my thing  for almost as long as there has been a here and am a very active program critic. I just don't choose to reduce to writing things that I don't see helping my cause or my direction.

Since you are new around here, I will answer the inevitable question;  What is my direction?

Prevention of the Seed copycat programs.  
Historical references and facts.
Two way dialogue between me and current incarnations of the cult.
Media contacts and stories.  
Editorial responses and Message board responses.
Helping parents understand.
Helping recent graduates and drop outs come to terms with what happened to them.
Stopping the abuse of teenagers thru education.
Helping victims of the cult that find my forum 30 years later.
Finding answers.
Helping survivors find direction.
Exposing the program as a cult in the open media.

 
I am happy to do these things to the best of my ability at my own discretion. I give and so far have got back more.

Your direction may be to call amnesty international, write your senator and to prepare affidavits. Go ahead.

You are also free Write a letter to BCBS and outline why they shouldn't do business with SAFE. When and if you are sued for Libel, the court is going to ask you what DIRECT evidence you have that these things occured. All heresy will be disallowed. Occurances at corporations unaffiliated will not be allowed. Accusations of cultic behavior will have to be proven with a perponderance of the evidence. Defending yourself could cost you untold thousands of dollars. I say these things not to discourage you but instead to help perhaps get people off of the wrong track.

I sat in federal court recently for a motion to dismiss at the bequest of a parent of SAFE that had filed a lawsuit for the very things we alleged happened at all of the programs. Another close friend of mine filed a friend of the court legal brief that resembled a book explaining the connections to the Straight the Seed...all the way back to the synanon. This was good research... the best we have. The judge acknowledged he was in receipt of it, said it was "strange" and nevertheless inadmissable.

The very same research the judge refused to look at has spawned countless media outlets to know the truth. If you doubt this, type Mel Sembler,DFAF, or The Straight into your web browser. See all that negativity? It did not exist before this effort started. It is the direct result of a handfull of people that have relentlessly worked to spread the word. This documentation, mostly gathered and organized by Wes Fager and Ginger, is very carefull to not accuse places like SAFE with crimes and behavior that  cannot be documented but rather introduces the reader to the docuemented evidence and draws a correlation between the methods and genesis of these programs. This is the power of the truth and the correct way to proceed. If you further doubt the effectiveness of the truth, keep an eye peeled to the horizon because something special is coming soon to your favorite magazine rack. I feel honored to have played a part in that effort.

Back to the topic at hand, Something I have always said is don't do anything without your eyes open. Sending a letter with the intent on interfering with a business relationship in my opinion is an invite to serious legal issues. You damn well better be prepared to defend what you write and demonstrate why you did it in court and be prepared to either hire an attorney and/or defend yourself.

Maybe you don't care and have nothing to lose. That describes several people I know that are stirring the pot to the best of their ability. If this describes you, I  say have a ball. If it doesn't, think carefully before doing anything.

That my friend is free advice. Take it for what it is worth to you.


BTW, my attorney friend Fuelaw gave some serious advice about the affidavits, one being that in their current incarnation they are legally worthless except as a weapon against you in a libel suit. It kind of reminds me of the time I collected 500 signature for a new ball field (I was the founder and commissioner of the local little league) only to find out I did it wrong and the county wouldn't accept them. These are tough lessons to learn but denying the fallacy of your ways is even more foolhardy.




 


I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.  I'm certainly not!  But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!  
-- Monty Python

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Offline Hamiltonf

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Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2003, 12:04:00 AM »
Why haven't you replied to my private message?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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The Bush administration has succeeded in making the United States one of the most feared and hated countries in the world. The talent of these guys is unbelievable. They have even succeeded at alienating Canada. I mean, that takes ge

Offline marika708

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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2003, 10:19:00 AM »
If you mean me, I don't have any private messages.

Marika

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807059099/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446

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arika
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Offline marika708

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Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2003, 10:23:00 AM »
Thanks for the response.  It's alot to digest.  I guess there are no easy answers.  

Marika

I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole

--Malcolm X

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arika
Atlanta \'83-\'84