Author Topic: Wayward Kids  (Read 1686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Wayward Kids
« on: November 15, 2006, 12:56:28 PM »
What About These Wayward Children?
One of the most painful things in life is dealing with wayward children.  Although this is not unique to religious types, it is particularly difficult for those who hold strong religious convictions.  One of the characteristics of those who hold strong religious convictions is that they are to pass their strong religious convictions on to their children.  

As I said, this is not unique to those with strong religious convictions.  Even those strong religious convictions have hopes and dreams for their children and are often dismayed when their children fall short of their hopes and dreams.  And even when kids aren't falling short of specific parental hopes and dreams, the pains and agonies of the kids become the pains and agonies of the parents.  And these pains and agonies of the parents are multiplied because said parents have often taken great pains and agonies to protect their kids from and educate them against these pains and agonies.

But this situation is especially acute for parents with religious convictions.  Those without strong religious convictions may lament the prodigality of their children and may wonder where they went wrong, or how it could be that their kids didn't learn any better; in short they may feel that there has been some sort of failure on their part or the kids part.  But with religious parents this is compounded because they carry the added weight of feeling that they have let God down too.

I speak from my own experience as a Christian.  The most important thing to me in regards to my kids is that they embrace the faith that I am trying to pass on.  I think this is true of most Christian parents.  I have served as a youth minister for five years and have served as a senior pastor for five more years.  Thus I have had a front row seat to myriads of modern adaptations of the story of the prodigal son.

I got to thinking about this recently when I read Michael Spencer's post A Prayer for Alex: what do do when your child says he doesn't believe anymore.  Michael really hits a home run with this post.  I strongly recommend that you read his post because he talks about what it is like to be a kid and he talks about all of the influences that pull kids away from the faith of their fathers.  He shows that we shouldn't be surprised when kids wander away from the faith and that a time of wandering doesn't equal permanent desertion.  

As I read Michael's piece I echoed his sentiment to the effect of "why should we be surprised when kids reject the faith?"  The only thing I can add to this is that the bible is full of such instances.  In fact, it seems to be the norm in Scripture that most of the characters in the bible have a period of wandering from the faith.  Think of Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, Samson and think of all of those kings of Israel and Judah.  Think of Peter and the other disciples who deserted Jesus in His hour of trial.  It seems that almost no one, no matter how close they are to Jesus, lives a life without some kind of wandering.  

Parents today are bombarded with books, tapes, cd's and seminars full of helpful material on parenting.  This goes for religious and non-religious parents. Again, in my context as a Christian, I can rattle off the top of my head many names of authors and titles of books that are specifically devoted to helping you raise your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord and keep them walking with Christ.  

We read all of these things and think that there is some guarantee in reading them and applying their principles that, if we read and apply these principles, our kids are going to turn out perfect, or if not perfect, at least pretty good.  Yet in the Bible you've got people like David, a man after God's own heart, who commits adultery and murder.  The disciples themselves had three years of training at the feet of Jesus yet they deserted him.  And we don't even need to mention Peter.

So the question again is, why do we think our kids won't rebel?  Michael Spencer does a good job of showing that a period of rebellion can actually be the catalyst of a renewed commitment to Christ.  

The problem I have seen with so many Christian families is the sense of doom and gloom when there is a period of rebellion.  Parents act as if it is the end of the world.  I don't mean to minimize the fact that these can be periods of great pain.  As I said, the pains and agonies of the kids become the pains and agonies of the parents.  Yet, if we could maintain a sense of perspective, it would help us and our kids.  

When kids start to wander parents tend to either go into panic mode or crackdown mode.  This is harmful to both the parent and the kid.  It robs the parent of any sense of peace and joy and it further alienates the kids.

I have asked several parents, whose kids are in a state of wandering if they ever had a period of wandering themselves.  The answer is always yes.  Then I ask them if God brought them back to Himself?  The answer is always yes.  My next statement is always "then can't you trust God to do the same thing in your child's life that He did in yours?"  And the reply I get from that is always the same - "yes, but I have worked so hard to do all I can to see to it that they don't wander."  

I often find that these parents don't understand grace. In their heart of hearts they don't truly believe that they have been forgiven for their own transgressions, so they are seeking atonement through their kids.  If they can raise kids who didn't do the wrong things they did, this will become a way of atoning for their own sins.  

For these parents, they have a blemished track record.  It is not enough for them that their kids get back on track later, albeit with a few blemishes on their track record.  For these parents, their own blemishes can be atoned for by their kids having a perfect track record.

But again, this is expecting too much.  If the disciples of Jesus wandered, why do we think our disciples, i.e. kids, won't?  Don't forget that in the story of the prodigal son, the father of the prodigal represents God Himself.  

This goes hand in hand with the sense of finality.  We tend to forget that adolescence and early adulthood are two of the most changeable periods of life.  What kids are and do when they are young are not what they will be and do when they grow older.  Yet, we often respond with a sense of dread permanence when the kids wander.  We are sure that the fact that little Billy heisted a candy bar from the 7-11 means that he is doomed to a life of crime. Now of coure little Billy needs to face some stern consequences for this, but in most cases the consequences are going to have the desired effect and little Billy is going to turn out just fine.  

It is true that sometimes little Billy doesn't turn out fine.  Sometimes little Alex announces that he doesn't believe in God when he is in sixth grade and he never comes back to the faith.  

Sometimes these things happen because little Billy or Alex had lousy parents.  On the other hand, there are scores of people who had really lousy parents who turned out just great.

The point is that we have to come to the place in our spiritual lives where we understand that we don't control our kids destinies.  We certainly influence their destinies and MIchael Spencer gives some wonderful examples of things you can do to exert a positive influence on your kids lives.   And the fact that we don't control their destinies does not relieve us of our responsibilities.  

But having said all of that we must remember that we don't control our kids destinies.  And maybe therein lies a part of the problem.  The harder we try to control the destinies of our kids the more they resist.  Although I wouldn't build a whole parenting philosophy on the parable of the prodigal son, it is useful to remember that when the prodigal wanted to run the father let him go instead of clamping down.

If we want our kids to follow in our footsteps of faith, the best thing we can do is model a life of faith that is so winsome and compelling that it is the kind of life they want to return to once the pig's food has lost its taste.  

I heard John Rosemond speak at seminar a little over a year ago and he talked about the different stages of a kid's life.  I can't remember all of them, but basically he said that there are distinct seasons in the raising of a child.  The first season is a season of service where the parents lives orbit around the child's, they live to serve the child.  This is from birth to three years old.  The second season is the season of leadership and authority which lasts from three to thirteen years old.  In this season the child is expected to orbit around the parents and learn from the parents and submit to the parent's authority. The season of mentoring begins at the age of thirteen which is a time when the parents aren't governing the child quite so tightly, but are instead, preparing them for their emancipation (by the way, you can find an article on this on his website, but you have to sign up for a fee).

So I asked him what happens if the child is in the season of mentoring but you realize that you failed during the season of leadership and authority.  It is during the season of leadership and authority that the chid is to learn self-control and self-government.  John's answer is that you can't go back to a previous parenting style.  In other words, if the kid is 13 or older and has not learned self-government, clamping down harder isn't going to teach this. Instead, you have to mentor the kid toward self-government.

Similarly, after their teenage years, the next season is that of friendship.  This is in the early twenties.  

What I have seen most often is that most rebellion occurs in the teens and early twenties.  And when it occurs, the parents address it through an authority/leadership style.  This leads to greater frustration for the parents and greater anger on the part of the kids.

So, I go back to the whole principle that we do not control the destinies of our kids and it is a mistake to try to do so.  God is more loving and wise than we are and He can handle our kids when we can't.  When they rebel as teens, we influence them through mentoring.  When they rebel as twenty-somethings, we influence them through friendship.

But in every case we shouldn't see rebellion as something unusual.  It is something that God has dealt with millions of times before and He knows how to handle it in the case of your child and mine.


Posted by David Wayne on May 23, 2005 at 06:12 PM in Relationships, Religion, Theology | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/2502724

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference What About These Wayward Children? :

ยป Do I Really Believe in Grace? from such small hands
A post this week by David Wayne of Jollyblogger hits close to home. He gives some excellent pastoral advice to us parents of those wayward children. The ones we?ve tried to carefully raise up in the way that they should [Read More]

Tracked on May 25, 2005 at 11:36 AM
Comments
Thank you for this post. What a breath of fresh air for us as we struggle with the clamp down question. We can no longer be naive and pretend bad stuff isn't happening; but we still can't figure out how to prevent it...

Posted by: Gretchen | October 08, 2005 at 01:45 AM

And I'm sorry you're not either, Alison. May God bless you.

For those listening in, if any, consider this:
I have been accused of being close minded. Perhaps I am, but here's a question: should I be open-minded, and if so, why? It turns out that the only rational response to that would have to be founded on Biblical principles (Golden Rule, love of neighbor, love of truth, etc). But to know those Biblical principles one would have to know the Bible and honor the principles in it. And those same principles lead to the conclusion that exposing my children to 'sensitivity training' designed to get them to think that 'altermative lifestyles' are OK is a violation of my paternal duties. Likewise any curriculum designed to make them think that they are the byproduct of a cosmic burp some umpty-billion years ago.

To respond to such concerns with an ad hominem about being pharasaical dodges the questions: what are our parental duties according to the Bible? Is allowing the government to educate our children acceptable?

As far as the proof and the pudding goes, we've had something like 100 years of nearly universal compulsory government education in this country. Those who care about Biblical principles ought to have no trouble perceiving the magnitude of the disaster.

I don't mean to say that public schooling is the root of all cases of Christian children straying from the fold, but I strongly suspect it is a signficant factor in many. Parents with young children, think about it!

Doc

Posted by: Doc | May 26, 2005 at 04:38 PM

Hi, Doc, Glad to see you agree with my description of you, and that you took it as a compliment. I'm sorry that you're not open to any ideas other than your own, and so there is no point in my contining this discussion. Perhaps we come from different parts of the country where results are much different. At any rate I'm signing off now, with my apologizes to David.

Posted by: Alison | May 26, 2005 at 03:06 PM

O dear! I had no idea I was being pharasaical! Psalm 141:5: "Let the righteous smite me in kindness and reprove me; It is oil upon the head; Do not let my head refuse it..." I really appreciate it when someone is willing to judge me like that. So few people are, these days.

Altho' the original idea of the thread may have been pitched towards those whose children are grown and straying, clearly many whose children are young are 'tuning in'; to them I say again, Alison's views notwithstanding: wake up! Don't put your precious children's minds in the hands, however well-meaning, of those who are, at best, paid to push, and at worst, eager to push an atheistic, relativistic, hyper-tolerant (but intolerant of Christian morality) curriculum.

To those whose children are grown and straying, of course my prayers are with them, and I know my kids aren't immune from such except to the extent that God spares them. But just because God is in ultimate control of their destinies doesn't excuse me from doing my best (not that I ever actually do my best, mind you :-)) to raise them according to Biblical principles. And no where in the Bible does it even come close to saying it's OK to let the government teach atheistic ideas to Christian children.

O, and BTW, I'm 50 also, and have seen plenty of kids both home-schooled and public schooled in my practice. Guess which ones are more likely to be on mind-altering substances, getting 'body sculpture', and getting pregnant?

Doc

Posted by: Doc | May 26, 2005 at 02:41 PM

Hi, Doc, me again.
I've known dozens of kids who have been home-schooled (by their parents, not some weird cult), and you know at least 4 that are in the process. But I am about 50 and I'm guessing I've been around longer than you and in churches I've attended there have always been large groups of home-schoolers. So I've seen the results 20 years later. That is how I know so many. You see how it works out for your kids now, but no one can see the future. I've seen three families raise really good kids; the rest have produced disasters (temporarily, hopefully).

However, in your most recent post, you seem to be talking about scholastic ability, success in college, winners on geographic tests (I saw that one today), etc. That's not what I'm talking about. I've seen two home-schooled kids go into the Air Force Academy, so obviously the potential is there to be well-educated. So yes, homeschooling is a credible option and I hope it continues to work great for your family. But I'm talking about raising kids with good moral character that will not grow up to resent their parents and resent God.

My children are young adults now. They didn't resent that they weren't home schooled as were most of the other kids in church (the only part they objected to was these other kids coming up to my children and telling them that I didn't love them because I was not homeschooling them - great social skills indeed). In fact, except for the 3 families I previously mentioned, most of these kids, and are involved in drug and alcohol abuse and/or sexual issues. Some of these kids have even told their parents that they are now athiests. The current closest friends of my children also went to public schools, and they are good, productive Christians, active in their churches, raising terrific children of their own.

The most telling part of your post is that you stated "the proof is in the pudding." It's way too early to see any proof in the pudding. Certainly age 16 is too early to tell. Let's wait 20 years and see how these stories end. I'm not against home-schooling, and I don't denigrate people who choose to do that. That is their choice as a parent. I've seen some kids turn out great and I'm glad your family is happy with the situation. I would not object if my children found themselves in situations where they felt homeschooling was the best choice for them. For instance, they plan to be missionaries, and their only options may be homeschooling or sending their kids off to a boarding school. So there are many situations where homeschooling would be best. I am, however, against the notion that homeschooling is superior across the board. There is no perfect formula that fits each kid, and I think you ought to be a little easier on parents who struggle by implying that all would be well if only they had homeschooled. That's just mean and, if I might say it, you sound a little bit pharasaical. I think this thread is meant to encourage parents who feel like they have failed because their adult children have turned away from God. To them I would say: all is not lost; God is in control; your children belong to God; don't let anyone blame you or suggest if only you had done (fill in the blank) you would not be facing this situation now. Parents, do the best you can, pray, be patient, and leave it in God's hands.

I could say more, but it is the 26th day of the month and I haven't said the Prayer of Jabez once, so I need to go say it 26 times. Otherwise, I might have bad luck.

Posted by: Alison | May 26, 2005 at 01:16 PM

Alison--

I don't know how you encountered 'lots' of homeschooled kids who were angry; perhaps they were 'homeschooled' by some weird group or something. Have you asked public school kids how their experiences are? For every one who likes it (the jocks, the popular, etc) there are others who are practically abused by the experience.
Study after study confirms superior outcomes in academics for homeschoolers, and, although I tend to distrust 'research' in psychology and sociology, studies also show social skills to be ahead in homeschoolers as well. My 4 kids, aged 6 to 16, have repeatedly expressed a distinct dislike for the idea of stopping homeschooling and are far from 'angry' about it.
Anyway, the proof's in the pudding; the numbers are ~ 2 million and growing by 15% a year. Colleges are now readily accomodating homeschoolers. If I were a pastor, I'd strongly recommend it, or a good Christian school (hard to find, though...) from the pulpit, and I'd rail against the idea that Christian fathers are satisfactorily carrying out their paternal duties as outlined in Scripture by turning their children's minds over to the government for 6 hours a day 5 days a week.

Doc

Posted by: Doc | May 26, 2005 at 12:12 PM

Doc, regarding your last paragraph, I'm betting just the opposite would be true. I've seen a lot of home-schooled kids grow up extraordinarily angry because they were home-schooled. They only way we could presume to know if homeschooling has any longlasting affect would be to follow for a lifetime kids who grow up in the same household, the only difference being one was homeschooled and one was not. Even then we couldn't be sure. But my heart goes out to those with "stray" children. I have no explanation, but my Mom has come to some interesting conclusions, for instance, a kid at church turns out bad because his parents were mid-trib instead of pre-trib; or a girl my age has been married 3 times because her parents let her go to dances in high school. Things like that, but she's in her 80s, so if that is what she thinks, that's fine with me. The truth is we don't know, but we pray and we leave our children in the hands of a loving God.

Posted by: Alison | May 25, 2005 at 06:58 PM

Great post, and good comments. I haven't read IM's post yet, and maybe he deals with this specific recommendation, but I doubt it. I'll preface it with all the usual disclaimers: yes, no matter what you do or how well you do it, your kids may reject the faith/go wrong/do something horrible, etc, etc. And yes, the percentages of churched kids doing horrible things seems little different than that of the unchurched kids.

BUT...

I strongly recommend homeschooling your kids. Anyone who can look at the curriculum and milieu of the public schools (and many privates, even 'religious' schools, as well) and not conclude that it is essentially a sometimes-superficially-attractive, but at its core toxic environment for a child's mind and body is simply in denial.

"But our school isn't that way!" So their textbooks don't assume that evolution is true and all religions are equally valid (if they mention religion at all)? The local chapter of the ACLU isn't pushing the GLBTS alliance 'club' on your highschoolers? The sovereignty of God and the manifestation of His glory is being taught in every subject?

I strongly suspect that if a decent study was made of churched homeschooled kids, their rates of atheism, etc would be substantially lower than their public-schooled peers.

Doc

Posted by: Doc | May 25, 2005 at 01:20 PM

The theory predominant where I grew up is that children just have to find their own way. Children may have to drift, crash and make thier own decisions, but they have to find their own way. Remember, I saw this work out in lots of people's lives, and mostly I would say that there was a lot of problems with it. Like a farmer, a parent
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Wayward Kids
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2006, 02:06:44 PM »
The poster who put this here is from Utah and has attempted to manually spam (yes, lol) all of Fornits with a combination of this and a copy of email spam.

How low can you go?

If you're a Christian, apparently very, very damn low. :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Wayward Kids
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2006, 02:43:39 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
The poster who put this here is from Utah and has attempted to manually spam (yes, lol) all of Fornits with a combination of this and a copy of email spam.

How low can you go?

If you're a Christian, apparently very, very damn low. :lol:


Hey watch it there gargle. Both his wives are my sisters.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Wayward Kids
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 09:26:43 AM »
Can I get an Amen?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »