Author Topic: The Who  (Read 248551 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3030 on: September 06, 2008, 01:12:25 PM »
Quote
Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."
These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.  

This is one reason why I have been advocating for programs to be required to have a school counsellor or the childs therapist sign-off on the placement prior to the child being accepted.  This may reduce the amount of un-needed placements.
Another requirement I am in favor of is having the child evaluated prior to being placed.  Some kids have never seen a professional and may have pre-existing conditions which would warrant local services/interventions or medication versus being sent to a program solely based on a parents say so.



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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3031 on: September 07, 2008, 02:19:23 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote
Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."
These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.  

This is one reason why I have been advocating for programs to be required to have a school counsellor or the childs therapist sign-off on the placement prior to the child being accepted.  This may reduce the amount of un-needed placements.
Another requirement I am in favor of is having the child evaluated prior to being placed.  Some kids have never seen a professional and may have pre-existing conditions which would warrant local services/interventions or medication versus being sent to a program solely based on a parents say so.



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Programs definitely should have the parents go to a psychiatrist before considering a placement for their children. This way a determination can be made as to how safe the child is from the Parents. To many psycho parents out there...
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3032 on: September 08, 2008, 02:19:56 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Programs definitely should have the parents go to a psychiatrist before considering a placement for their children. This way a determination can be made as to how safe the child is from the Parents. To many psycho parents out there...

I kind of see what you are saying.  This would be one more look at the family situation.  If the school counsellors or childs therapist doesn’t quite think the child would benefit from a program, merely based on the childs evaluation, a family situation may tip the scales in favour of sending the child away if the kids home life is unstable or the parents are struggling themselves.

The child would benefit from being removed from an abusive or ineffective family environment in this instance.  I would not suggest a TBS unless the child could benefit directly, I would lean more towards a traditional boarding school.
Good point!



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3033 on: September 08, 2008, 03:01:52 PM »
:guesswho:  :sue:
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3034 on: September 08, 2008, 05:21:36 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Programs definitely should have the parents go to a psychiatrist before considering a placement for their children. This way a determination can be made as to how safe the child is from the Parents. To many psycho parents out there...

I kind of see what you are saying.  This would be one more look at the family situation.  If the school counsellors or childs therapist doesn’t quite think the child would benefit from a program, merely based on the childs evaluation, a family situation may tip the scales in favour of sending the child away if the kids home life is unstable or the parents are struggling themselves.

The child would benefit from being removed from an abusive or ineffective family environment in this instance.  I would not suggest a TBS unless the child could benefit directly, I would lean more towards a traditional boarding school.
Good point!



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Good you see it my way, because 99.99% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3035 on: September 08, 2008, 06:12:05 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"

Good you see it my way, because 99.99% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.

Yes, it is very rare that I am in-line with anyone elses view here (or even close).  I havent seen those numbers, though.  Most of the kids I have seen were from good families and parenting skills were not the issue or cause.  Seems the kid strayed for one reason or another and had difficulty getting back on track, siblings were doing well.



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Offline shanlea

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3036 on: September 09, 2008, 03:03:27 PM »
The Who said: 99.99% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.

I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.

What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.

One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.
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hanlea

Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3037 on: September 09, 2008, 03:59:39 PM »
Quote from: "shanlea"
The Who said: 00.02% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.

I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.

What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.

One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3038 on: September 09, 2008, 05:12:56 PM »
Quote from: "shanlea"
The Who said: 00.02% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.

I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.

What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.

One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.

I am not sure if the 00.02% is an accurate number but I do agree it is low.  Very few of the kids who are at risk are due to poor parenting.  I think it is too bad that the school/ program you attended didn’t promote family values more than they did.  One of the keys to a successful stay at a TBS is the healing that occurs between the child and his/her family members.  I believe as we see more of the restrictions, which block communication between parent and child, lifted and create a clear conduit for the child and family to work thru we will see the success rates increase in some of these programs which are not very effective.

This view that the parents are to blame for everything in the childs life is typical and most parents take it with a grain of salt because they/we remember when we were kids.  This is merely a maturing process.  Once the kids reach their early 20’s they take more responsibility for their actions and they look back on their difficult teen years with a more realistic view point.



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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3039 on: September 09, 2008, 05:56:17 PM »
"One of the keys to a successful stay at a TBS is the healing that occurs between the child and his/her family members"

Let me guess...you're referring to the healing ASR offered via their competent staff such as  

Brett & Lisa Carey

&

Ray & Sharon Kreider

?

The very same Careys and Kreiders that were power staff of CEDU ?

Happy outsourcing!
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3040 on: September 09, 2008, 06:22:20 PM »
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
Let me guess...you're referring to the healing ASR offered via their competent staff.....

No, I am speaking to “all” programs which are successful not just ASR or a handful of staff.  You cant put every kid on the hook for all the problems he is causing or experiencing.  In many instances the problems are shared by the entire family and therefore have to be approached as a family issue.

I know from reading here that many feel it is the parents fault or that the parents blame the child for everything but in reality both of these mindsets are inaccurate and if treated as such will be doomed to fail.  I think what you will see is as the industry evolves it will focus more and more on the family to resolve the problems and less on just one individual.



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Offline Awake

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3041 on: September 09, 2008, 08:01:45 PM »
Quote from: "shanlea."
Quote from: "shanlea"
The Who said: 00.02% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.

I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.

What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.

One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.

Thank you for that. It is exactly how I feel with regards to Cedu, and as far as I'm concerned the outlook on all these programs. It never ceases to amaze me how people will continue to insist that it is possible to fix a family by dividing it.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3042 on: September 09, 2008, 08:33:33 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
It never ceases to amaze me how people will continue to insist that it is possible to fix a family by dividing it.

It is not an insistence, really, but more of an observation and is not only possible but is considered the most successful path in may cases.  Sometimes people need to be apart to heal and gain a better perspective.  It can be a difficult concept for those who have not experienced the success, believe me I know, awake, I use to think the same thing.  You never want to disrupt a healthy and thriving family, I agree, but if there is a dynamic which is preventing a person from growing or healing then they need to be removed from that dynamic (plain and simple)... repair both sides independently and then reunite.  
The separation need not be permanent.  In almost every life changing event the person is removed to a safe and neutral place to heal and then they return to the family fold... i.e child birth, therapy, schooling, honeymoon, vacation, career, almost any type of surgery etc.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3043 on: September 10, 2008, 03:11:22 PM »
Look, there is no question that there are times you need to remove yourself from toxic relationships in order to heal. The problem with CEDU is that they SYSTEMICALLY used the separation to broaden the distance between truth and reality... and that includes any chance of a respectful, honest relationship with your parents.  The separation was exploited to CEDU's advantage and to our detriment. I can tell you definitely that CEDU lied to me about my parents, and they lied to my parents about me, and my case is not the exception. They also colored our characters with permanent markers,  using white for black and black for white. The problem is that many of walked out of there totally disconnected from who we really were--because we weren't allowed to think, act, or be ourselves. Our very stories were re-written... and we had to live out these off color, of track, exaggerated, or flat out false "truths."  We were also badgered into re-interpreting larger society according to CEDU's protocol.  It was the emotional equivalent of spatial disorientation applied to our sense of identity.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3044 on: September 10, 2008, 04:45:18 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Awake"
It never ceases to amaze me how people will continue to insist that it is possible to fix a family by dividing it.

It is not an insistence, really, but more of an observation and is not only possible but is considered the most successful path in may cases.  Sometimes people need to be apart to heal and gain a better perspective.  It can be a difficult concept for those who have not experienced the success, believe me I know, awake, I use to think the same thing.  You never want to disrupt a healthy and thriving family, I agree, but if there is a dynamic which is preventing a person from growing or healing then they need to be removed from that dynamic (plain and simple)... repair both sides independently and then reunite.  
The separation need not be permanent.  In almost every life changing event the person is removed to a safe and neutral place to heal and then they return to the family fold... i.e child birth, therapy, schooling, honeymoon, vacation, career, almost any type of surgery etc.



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Jesus.  It sends a message to the kids that their parents are fucked up like the who and a program has to save them from the "toxic relationship" .  This is bullshit, the same bullshit that came out of Robert Litchfield's mouth in Tranquility Bay.  Watch it sometime you monotonous baboon.
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