Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH

[Kathy]

http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html



Lenny Ortega - May 30, 2006



June 17, 2006 It's now being ordered shut by the state.

[Troll Control]

Where's The Who?  He was a staunch supporter of this program and when I said they were killing kids he said I was "extreme," "uninformed" and that nobody really knew what happened, but it seemed like just "an accident."

Time for you to eat a healthy portion of your own ignornt words once again, Who.  I've never seen someone who presents as a "thinker" be so wrong so many times on so many different issues.

Too bad that it takes two dead kids to get the attention needed to close the place with apologists like The Who running around defending programs sight-unseen.  Too bad also that another kid had to die while you were waiting for "the facts to emerge," Who.  

Here's the facts:Star Ranch kills kids.  Just like I said when they killed the last one.

[Deborah]

More on Star Ranch here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 53&forum=9

[Troll Control]

Posted: 2005-12-22 19:12:00  
The Who said:

"Hey dont let them get to you, they try to rile people up with false info (hopeing you wont check on them), throw gas on the fire , makes them feel important. Let em talk, when the report comes out they will be gone or try to convince you the cops were paid off... I've seen their types before..."

Hey, Who, the report is out.  It's shows another dead kid.  

We've seen your type before, too.  You're a deaf, dumb and blind supporter of programs that kill kids.  Nice job.  Way to be on the right side of the issue  :roll:

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the parent of the dead kid came here and took comfort in his posts and sent their kid? It is possible and you should think about that blind program supporters like who.

[Anonymous]

Wow.  :cry:  :cry:


We're waiting Who.

[Anonymous]

Interesting.  He's got time to respond to this http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#201790
 and promote a students paper as legitimate "research" but doesn't have time to address the most recent Star Ranch death and subsequent closing.  Hmm.

[Anonymous]

He'll respond... he has no shame.

[TheWho]

Any child that dies is a tragic loss.  What I fail to see in this thread is that the first child died while the staff was trying to prevent the child from hurting him/herself.  The initial report  read:

The staffer performed a state-approved "basket hold restraint," in which a child's arms are held across the chest, after all other options were exhausted......

I have not seen a follow-up or conclusive report.

The second child was on an outing with his house parents when his bike was swept away when he entered or neared a creek.

Again with the gasoline, I am not a Staunch supporter of Star Ranch, as most of us are aware of.  I do, however, try to bring balance when I feel a story or event is being unfairly represented or misrepresented.  If you recall in December there were many people here at fornits standing by ready to hang a couple of staff when a child died in their care, when the information available showed very clearly that they followed state approved procedures during that incident.
If you look back you will see I was not supporting the school, but, I was trying to keep the discussion balanced which as it turns out was the right direction.

As far as this child being killed in the creek, this is the first I have heard of it and I take the same position.  It doesn?t appear to be intentional, or negligence mentioned.  Again,Lets see what the authorities turn up.  I think one of the problems is that so many are so desperate to blame the schools that they fail to look at the detail and the children themselves, (People, This is important)!! I could care less whether Star Ranch stays open or not, what I do care about are these kids and getting them the help they need.



[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-06-19 13:18 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-19 12:25:00, TheWho wrote:

"Any child that dies is a tragic loss.  What I fail to see in this thread is that the first child died while the staff was trying to prevent the child from hurting him/herself.  The initial report  read:



The staffer performed a state-approved "basket hold restraint," in which a child's arms are held across the chest, after all other options were exhausted......

I'd be most interested to know what provoked the need for a restraint.  I can't tell you how many times kids in the place I was in were restrained for nothing more than looking at a member of the opposite sex or refusing to do an exercise.  The "restraint" was more about showing the kid who was boss.  I also witnessed many, many kids poked and prodded and needled until they reacted in some way and the staff had an excuse for a "restraint".

If you recall in December there were many people here at fornits standing by ready to hang a couple of staff when a child died in their care, when the information available showed very clearly that they followed state approved procedures during that incident.

Which specific case are you referring to?

Again,Lets see what the authorities turn up.

It seems the authorities have turned up enough to close the place down.  Really Who, what more do I want you to admit that there's a problem with the school?

I think one of the problems is that so many are so desperate to blame the schools that they fail to look at the detail and the children themselves, (People, This is important)!! I could care less whether Star Ranch stays open or not, what I do care about are these kids and getting them the help they need.

"

And again I maintain that you've bought into the false premise that these kids are in dire need of this extreme form of, ahem, "treatment".   I maintain that you wholeheartedly buy into this culture that views adolescense as a pathology ( :tup: to whoever started that thread, I like that analogy).

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-19 12:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

Again,Lets see what the authorities turn up.

It seems the authorities have turned up enough to close the place down.  Really Who, what more do I want you to admit that there's a problem with the school?

Damn filter.  That should read.....what more do y0u need to admit......

[TheWho]

I'd be most interested to know what provoked the need for a restraint.

I believe it was that the child was severely banging his head against the cement and staff was trying to stop the child.

Which specific case are you referring to?

The child that died in December of 2005

It seems the authorities have turned up enough to close the place down. Really Who, what more do I want you to admit that there's a problem with the school?

I agree 100%, if the authorities feel it should be shut down then they have their reasons.  Is it because a child died?  Could be, but we don?t know at this time.

And again I maintain that you've bought into the false premise that these kids are in dire need of this extreme form of, ahem, "treatment". I maintain that you wholeheartedly buy into this culture that views adolescense as a pathology (  to whoever started that thread, I like that analogy).

No, I haven?t bought into anything.  I am not a band wagon jumper, I like to think of myself as someone who takes a look at situations and events independently.  If a guy jumps off a bridge and kills himself, I am not going to spend my life trying to get the bridge torn down.  I may try to figure out why that person killed himself and then try to apply this knowledge to helping others.  It is just better time spent, in my opinion.

I do like the pathology analogy also, adolescence does seem like a disease sometimes !!

[Deborah]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 165#195989

Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer said Monday that the boy, who has not been named, was wading in the creek. Star Ranch employee Lisa Marie Mariana went into the creek after him as he was swept away by water moving downstream toward the Bluff Trail Road low-water crossing.

The current also carried Mariana downstream against the bridge, where she was pulled out by Donald Ehlers, who lives upstream from the property.

[First, is it ever wise to have only one staff at a water activity? Second, I lived in the area where this happened, on a creek near a low-water crossing. Locals know not to allow children to play near them and particularly near the crossings where water passes under the bridge through large metal culverts. Some have guards, others don?t. Limbs can get jammed in those without guards. Therefore if a person gets sucked into the pipe, they are trapped and will not shoot out the other side. Star Ranch should have known this and set stringent rules for water safety. Depending on the current, which varies, water only 6? deep can knock an adult male off their feet. If I were in charge of a group of kids, they would play where the water pools and has little to no current. Doesn?t it make sense that the program would have such safety rules in place?]

Ehlers said the boys were playing and riding their bikes through a shallow-water crossing for about 20 minutes before the accident occurred.

?It was a two-inch rain, and the water came up after the rain,? he said. ?I don?t know why they let those kids down there.?
[Yep, Mr. Ehlers, some of us wonder the same thing.]

****Another boy required hospital treatment recently after being stabbed by another resident. The injured boy?s family did not press charges, law enforcement officials said.

But it was the accident last week that triggered the decision to end the state contract.

I think it was the incident that convinced us there seemed to be a PATTERN OF INADEQUATE SUPERVISON,? Crimmins said. New placements had been found for all 19 boys by late Friday, he added.

A grand jury found no criminal conduct in Mikie's death and the state placed the facility on probation.
Although,
State officials say a follow-up investigation found the ranch DIDN?T COMPLY WITH RULES REGARDING USE OF RESTRAINTS THAT IMPAIR BREATHING. Records also show the ranch WASN?T MEETING REQUIREMENTS ON TRAINING AND SUPERVISION FOR STAFF, said Patrick Crimmins, Family and Protective Services spokesman.

Re: Restraints- anyone interested can read this excellent 5 part article
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB/1998ha ... urant.html

[TheWho]

Based on that information, Deborah, the closing would be justified.  What they should do is pull their license to operate force them to address all their problems before they can reapply.  
If the individual states do not enforce licensing and provide oversight some of these facilities? supervisory levels will continue to wane.  Maybe this will be a wake up call for some of the other states and force better regulation.  The ones who really lose here are the kids. Its really to bad.

[Deborah]

***I believe it was that the child was severely banging his head against the cement and staff was trying to stop the child.

I don't recall 'severely'.... but let's see how many options to restraint the brilliant minds on Fornits can come up with, for this situation. We could compile our suggestions and send them to programs known to restrain. I said that faceteously, but it actually sounds like a good idea!

I'll start:

De:Escalation- don't bait and/to punish. The incident began when the counselor demanded that the kid take a shower. With a highly reactive child, What is frequently called for is for the adult to back off and try a different tact.

Get assistance, two people pick him up my his hands and feet and move him back to the pool or onto the grass.

Get your body (lap), life preserver, etc between his head and and the concrete.

Lacking real skill in helping these kids deal with their hurt and fear, and while oppressive, they could require head bangers to wear helmets.
A damn sight better than death by restraint.

What are your suggestions, Who?