Author Topic: Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH  (Read 17202 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2006, 03:42:00 PM »
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Deborah Wrote:
Any news articles on this death?

You know actually, I don?t and I don?t believe there was much if anything.  The parents wrote a really nice letter back to ASR that I had the privilege to read and ASR let people know through their news letter to inform parents and alumni who knew him.  It is sad that not all the kids can be saved and it really hits the kids hard when something like that happens.

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Inquiring minds want to know....

Where are the stats that might show a successful track record? Deaths? Injuries? Assaults? PTSD?
Why do they not compile such data?


I really don?t know.  Talking with many kids who were working on getting into college, at the time, they seem to just want to put their time at ASR behind them.  If it was a regular boarding school it would be one thing, but it is a TBS for troubled teens and if you say you attended the kids feel they need to explain to everyone (every time, because they are curious) Why did you have to go there?  Many view it as a ?Speed bump? in their travels thru life and isn?t a highlight of any of their conversations, even though it had helped them to get back on track.  
Maybe some of you who have attended will understand, and this is why there is not much data compiled on the graduates.  I see the same thing here on fornits it is difficult to compile data on those who have moved on because ?They moved on?, I imagine.  It would be helpful to have better access to statistics, though, I agree.

Hope this helps.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2006, 04:04:00 PM »
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<.
<
One unorthodox punishment is to withhold spices ? INCLUDING SALT ? from students' food.


<]

Salt is not a spice; it is a vital part of one's electrolyte balance.  Without a sufficient amount one goes into shock, the heart stops beating and one dies.  Withholding salt is a potential act of homocide depending on whether or not there is sufficient salt in the rest of the diet.  BTW electrolyte imbalance is what cause many runners to collapse at the finish line and die even though they have kept hydrated throughout the race.
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Offline TheWho

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2006, 04:18:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-20 13:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
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<.

<
One unorthodox punishment is to withhold spices ? INCLUDING SALT ? from students' food.




<]



Salt is not a spice; it is a vital part of one's electrolyte balance.  Without a sufficient amount one goes into shock, the heart stops beating and one dies.  Withholding salt is a potential act of homocide depending on whether or not there is sufficient salt in the rest of the diet.  BTW electrolyte imbalance is what cause many runners to collapse at the finish line and die even though they have kept hydrated throughout the race."


I know someone who never used a salt shaker or put salt on their food and is still alive today.  They are almost 30.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2006, 04:22:00 PM »
THERE'S SALT IN MY FUCKING CUM, BITCH!!!!!!  :flame:  :flame:
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2006, 04:22:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-20 13:04:00, Anonymous wrote:


Salt is not a spice; it is a vital part of one's electrolyte balance.  Without a sufficient amount one goes into shock, the heart stops beating and one dies.  Withholding salt is a potential act of homocide depending on whether or not there is sufficient salt in the rest of the diet.  BTW electrolyte imbalance is what cause many runners to collapse at the finish line and die even though they have kept hydrated throughout the race."


No need to take things to extremes.  That's how THEY operate.  No one is claiming that withholding salt killed a kid.  It was said to show how far to the extremes that these places go with control and withholding food as punishment.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2006, 04:26:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-20 13:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"THERE'S SALT IN MY FUCKING CUM, BITCH!!!!!!  :flame:  :flame: "

You can eat the CORN outta my shit...  :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2006, 04:27:00 PM »
Wait'll I find you, fucker you are SOOOO gonna die!!!!!  :skull:
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2006, 04:30:00 PM »
Here, have some fucking SALT...  :lol:  :lol:
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2006, 10:22:00 PM »
If the parents can afford to send them to these over-priced factories then they can afford to take a couple of months off and take the kid on a month long road trip or go work with Habitat for Humanity for a few weeks.  Rent a cabin on a lake for a month.  Send them to live with a close relative out of state.  Anything but these places.



And again, the percentage of kids who actually need to be forcibly removed from the home is exceedingly low, IMO."
 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2006, 10:42:00 PM »
I know someone who never used a salt shaker or put salt on their food and is still alive today.  They are almost 30."
[/quote]

Then obviously there was sufficient salt in the diet.  I don't put salt on my food either and I am still alive.  I also don't march in 100 degree weather, sweat it all out and die of heat stroke which can also be caused by not enough salt which is why hikers carry salt pills and why cows have salt licks.  It is an important mineral.  If there is enough salt in the diet then you don't need to salt the food.  But if you are denied enough of the right kind of food AND denied salt after a period of time your electrolytes become imbalanced and you can die.
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Offline Oz girl

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2006, 12:16:00 AM »
sending a kid to summer camp is isolation also by your definition or detention at school (they are not allowed to go home on the bus, isolated from their friends)

I think we both know Who that there is an enormous difference to sending a kid to a summer camp that is non punitive & sending a kid getting detention at school. I spent the last 3 years of my highschool education as a boarder both here & on exchange in the US.

Firstly A kid at summer camp or regular boarding school can write to whoever they damn well want. When I worked at a summer camp i dont ever recall any staff wanting to read a kids letter home & change any of the content. I also don't know of a summer camp which starts with the premise that kids have to go through levels or "phases" as SUWS calls them, to earn preiveliges. The kids all got the same things provided and then if there was some infringement it would be dealt with as a once off and penalised accordingly.

 Detention at school lasts an hour! Isolation lasts as long as the audlts in charge want to make it because a kid in the middle of nowhere cant exactly tell anyone. Also I dont believe i know of a mainstream school that has detention involving lack of family contact over major holidays like christmas, or that haules kids out  the education system to hike for 3 months.

Also i am sure that there are reputable therapists that recommend TBS and wilderness schools. I am sure that they are very well paid as well! This to me does not make it OK. I think that if these programmes were not allowed to exist, American parents, even those facing extremely difficult issues with their kids would have to do what people in other westerrn countries do because it would not the an option. To me it is an issue of cultrual change. If American kids are statistically no worse than their foreign peers or less mentally healthy, then why should this even be an option for their parents?
 
Moreover if these places are not primarily about the bottom line then why would the major palyers in the industry not be 100 % in favour of strict regulation of it? The kids that they are "saving" would be in safer hands.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2006, 03:32:00 AM »
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On 2006-06-19 18:10:00, Anonymous wrote:


But why institutionalise kids to keep them safe? no other western country does this to teenagers! There are hundreds of other options for normal adolescent issues? Even if a place does not aduse per se & I dont know if they all do, almost all of them advertise that the kid has to 'earn priveliges" and that among the issues they deal with are defiance, self esteem and the prennial favourite "manipulation". How does sending kids away with the message that they are either not good enough or they are "mentally ill" help them. What does it keep them safe from?

Normal boarding schools do not use contact with the parent as either a reward, a punishment or therapy because they do not assume that they have more authority than the kid's family. They certainly dont keep kids there over summer and christmas because it is not seen as their role.For me the question is not wheter TBS and wilderness therapy is abvusive or not (this is a linked sideline issue) the question is why anyone would think a kid is better off with stangers as their only parental figures and why the mentality of the industry is so bloddy spiteful."


 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:
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Offline Oz girl

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2006, 04:02:00 AM »
[ This Message was edited by: Pls help on 2006-06-21 01:04 ]
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline TheWho

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #88 on: June 21, 2006, 08:18:00 AM »
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Pls Help Wrote:
Also i am sure that there are reputable therapists that recommend TBS and wilderness schools. I am sure that they are very well paid as well! This to me does not make it OK.


This makes no sense to me, I hear this over and over again about people getting paid and how much parents have to pay like this is suppose to make it bad.   This why there is little credibility with most peoples arguments here on fornits.  I have debated about isolation to the point where any kid who did not have 24/7 access to their friends and parents was considered in isolation.  (You cant call you friends and parents at most summer/ boy scout camps anytime you want, many households don?t let you call your friends at any hour).
If a Book is written which shows the industry in a different light than people here would like then they are doing it for profit, but books like the one Maia Szalavitzs wrote is considered not for profit.  If a group of therapists say the schools are not good for children they are portrayed as understanding the industry.    If other therapists recommend a child go to a TBS then they are doing it for profit.  Stories of abuse by counselors get accepted, unchecked, unchallenged.  Kids who do well are met with,? well wait a few years your opinion will change?.There is so much pressure to show any facet of the industry in a bad light, here, that any reasonable reader is forced to take the accounts and stories with a grain of salt.  How can fornits expect the readers to believe that the stories and accounts are not biased when all neutral data is seen in a bias or double standard?
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Offline Oz girl

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Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH
« Reply #89 on: June 21, 2006, 10:03:00 AM »
well firstly i am not fornits, I am a single person!
Secondly, if you are going to be involved in a for profit industry which is primarily about the welfare and safety of minors, then it is a legitimate expeactation that you
be held accountable to an independent body like a regulator.
thirdly if you are going to actively discourage children from speaking to their legal guardians then it is reasonalbe that you can answer why this is so because you should have absolutely nothing to hide about the kids treatment. Moreover if there is profit to be made from keeping a kid for longer than initially thought, especially when a kid's symptoms were issues as vague as "disprespect" then it is only fair that you are answerable.
I am also beginning to feel that my words are now delieberately twisted. Never did i say programmes which dont give kids 24 hour access to family and friends are abusive! Monitored mail or phone calls, however are suspicious and unreasonable. Normal schools and summer camps do not indulkge in this practice.Firstly most camps only go for a month or so at a maximum so the kids is home before too long and secondly mail regularly goes in and out unmonitored. Schools that involve kids bing there for longer than just a few weeks, usually let kids call home without a "therapist" standing over them on some kind of regular basis. This is because tthey do not really have anything to hide and can show parents the results that their money is buying.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen