Another 12 year old dies at STAR RANCH

[Troll Control]

The Who wrote:
"I do like the pathology analogy also, adolescence does seem like a disease"

Exactly the point everyone here keeps making about you.  You DO buy into the disease concept and you DO think that treatment centers are the cure.  You are ONE SICK INDIVIDUAL.

[TheWho]

De:Escalation- don't bait and/to punish. The incident began when the counselor demanded that the kid take a shower. With a highly reactive child, What is frequently called for is for the adult to back off and try a different tact.

I don?t know enough about the situation to know if this was done or not.

Get assistance, two people pick him up my his hands and feet and move him back to the pool or onto the grass.

Yes, a softer surface.  As myself, not being trained, I would drag him to the lawn if it was close by, if I could manage.

Get your body (lap), life preserver, etc between his head and and the concrete.

 Depends on how violently he is hitting his head, you could both get hurt if you put yourself between him and the ground.  Life preserver is a good idea.

Lacking real skill in helping these kids deal with their hurt and fear, and while oppressive, they could require head bangers to wear helmets.
A damn sight better than death by restraint.

I do see your point and he may be alive today if he had a Helmut on, it is never a good idea to make someone wear something that sets him/her apart from their peers.  Not sure what type of school it is and whether this would be a detriment to his social growth or not.  If everyone wore helmuts sure.

What are your suggestions, Who?

I like some of the ones you came up with.  It seems that if there were more staff available to just pick the guy up and move him to a soft surface.  I know it is easy in hind sight and I would never assume to put myself in the counselors shoes.  They were there and probably did what their training dictated and that?s all they could do.  If it turned out to be a training issue this is where the time and effort should be put to correct the problem.

[Anonymous]

I remember these four kids that came into the program I was in.  Young, about 13 or 14.  None of them had any violent history, either towards themselves or anyone else.  Just your basic run of the mill semi-stoner, they weren't really heavy into it.  Kinda weekend warriors.  Each one of those kids ended up either running into walls head on, banging their head on the floor or cutting themselves.  I saw these kids from the first day they came in until the last day they were taken out (2 to mental hospitals, 2 who's parents came and got them once they wised up) and the changes I saw in those kids will haunt me forever.  They were decent, normal kids who's parents had been scared into believing that they would DIE without being in there.  The kids weren't physically abused.  It was all mental and emotional torture until they broke and started truly exhibiting signs of mental illnes that were NOT there before.

Happens all the time.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-19 15:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I remember these four kids that came into the program I was in.  Young, about 13 or 14.  None of them had any violent history, either towards themselves or anyone else.  Just your basic run of the mill semi-stoner, they weren't really heavy into it.  Kinda weekend warriors.  Each one of those kids ended up either running into walls head on, banging their head on the floor or cutting themselves.  I saw these kids from the first day they came in until the last day they were taken out (2 to mental hospitals, 2 who's parents came and got them once they wised up) and the changes I saw in those kids will haunt me forever.  They were decent, normal kids who's parents had been scared into believing that they would DIE without being in there.  The kids weren't physically abused.  It was all mental and emotional torture until they broke and started truly exhibiting signs of mental illnes that were NOT there before.



Happens all the time.  "

There was this kid in my high school who was quiet all the time, but got very good grades and one day just flipped out and started banging himself (face) into his locker.  I didnt see it but a friend of mine was one of the ones who subdued him .  He hurt himself pretty badly and had scars on his face for at least the time until he graduated.  There are just people who are dealing with stuff all the time under the surface and then something triggers it, detention, girlfriend etc.  This guy never talked about it again so we never knew why, he seemed pretty normal other than that one event.  I agree, events like that, especially if they occur in the teen years can haunt you for a long time.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough.  I saw these four kids absolutely tortured.  Beaten down emotionally and psychologically every day for months until that precious little spirit of theirs was completely broken.  It had nothing to do with them just "acting crazy" out of the blue.  We all could see it coming.  Not one of us was surpised a bit.

[TheWho]

Thats a crime, Schools like that will eventually go out of business or change their ways.  If that continues people will stop sending their kids there.

[Anonymous]

Yes, well they did stop sending their kids there.  Only after years and years of abuse heaped upon thousands of kids.  Then they just opened up under another name.  Sometimes in the same location, sometimes in other states.  Their "methods" though live on through WWASPS programs and the like.

Nothing is going to change until we stop viewing adolescence as something to be controlled.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-19 16:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yes, well they did stop sending their kids there.  Only after years and years of abuse heaped upon thousands of kids.  Then they just opened up under another name.  Sometimes in the same location, sometimes in other states.  Their "methods" though live on through WWASPS programs and the like.



Nothing is going to change until we stop viewing adolescence as something to be controlled."

The industry is growing and when it hits a certain level of ?Gross income? (Revenue generation) , for the industry, the feds and state will want to step in for a larger slice and then we will start to see more regulation and oversight/funding.  Just a matter of time before the scales are tipped.

Nothing is going to change until we stop viewing adolescence as something to be controlled.

Agreed, I think kids are always going to push it one step further than we want them to (or think we can tolerate), its part of growing up and spreading of their wings.  Its our job, as parents, to make sure they do it safely and emerge ?out the other end? in one piece.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-19 16:39:00, TheWho wrote:

The industry is growing............

THAT is the problem.  There is no evidence that a need for such an "industry" exists.

[Anonymous]

Agreed, I think kids are always going to push it one step further than we want them to (or think we can tolerate), its part of growing up and spreading of their wings.  Its our job, as parents, to make sure they do it safely and emerge ?out the other end? in one piece.

"
[/quote]
But why institutionalise kids to keep them safe? no other western country does this to teenagers! There are hundreds of other options for normal adolescent issues? Even if a place does not aduse per se & I dont know if they all do, almost all of them advertise that the kid has to 'earn priveliges" and that among the issues they deal with are defiance, self esteem and the prennial favourite "manipulation". How does sending kids away with the message that they are either not good enough or they are "mentally ill" help them. What does it keep them safe from?
Normal boarding schools do not use contact with the parent as either a reward, a punishment or therapy because they do not assume that they have more authority than the kid's family. They certainly dont keep kids there over summer and christmas because it is not seen as their role.For me the question is not wheter TBS and wilderness therapy is abvusive or not (this is a linked sideline issue) the question is why anyone would think a kid is better off with stangers as their only parental figures and why the mentality of the industry is so bloddy spiteful.

[Fire Swamp]

Who, you're nothing but a bloody industry WHORE, aren't you???  :rofl:  :wave:

[Oz girl]

oops above poster was me!

[Fire Swamp]

Shut up and be sure to login next time, FOOL!!  :smokin:

[TheWho]

But why institutionalise kids to keep them safe? no other western country does this to teenagers! There are hundreds of other options for normal adolescent issues? Even if a place does not aduse per se & I dont know if they all do, almost all of them advertise that the kid has to 'earn priveliges" and that among the issues they deal with are defiance, self esteem and the prennial favourite "manipulation". How does sending kids away with the message that they are either not good enough or they are "mentally ill" help them. What does it keep them safe from?

A very small percentage of kids end up at TBS? after the other options available fail to work.  The schools deal with defiance, self esteem issues.  Earning privileges isn?t anything new nor is it abusive.  Virtually every job, household or life situation one will earn more money, freedom, vacation time etc. based on how maturely it is handled

Normal boarding schools do not use contact with the parent as either a reward, a punishment or therapy because they do not assume that they have more authority than the kid's family. They certainly dont keep kids there over summer and christmas because it is not seen as their role.

Normal boarding schools are not necessarily dealing with kids who may have a difficult home life.  The childs home may be the problem, the family may be unhealthy and needs time to heal.  The children are often removed from an unhealthy environment (Friends, family, inlaws etc.) and kept safe from them until the problems can be identified and hopefully resolved.

For me the question is not wheter TBS and wilderness therapy is abvusive or not (this is a linked sideline issue) the question is why anyone would think a kid is better off with stangers as their only parental figures and why the mentality of the industry is so bloddy spiteful.

If you speak to any of the parents they don?t feel, initially, that anyplace could be better for their child than home.  But as home time after time fails them and their child they start to run out of options and the main concern is to get their child to a place that is safe for them, a place where they can flourish and grow.  If this happens to be away from home, it may not be ideal, but the childs welfare has to come first and a separation for a time is ?sometimes? the best thing.
Many people don?t believe that here and that is fine, they have had other experiences and have a right to their opinions and choices.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-19 18:36:00, TheWho wrote:




A very small percentage of kids end up at TBS?

and a fraction of those that DID end up there needed any form of "treatment" at all.

Earning privileges isn?t anything new nor is it abusive.  Virtually every job, household or life situation one will earn more money, freedom, vacation time etc. based on how maturely it is handled

Earning food or basic social interaction or hygiene is not therapeutic.  Having every single moment of your time, space, thoughts and privacy is not therapeutic.  Having communication with parents severely monitored and restricted is not therapeutic (no matter how you want to spin it with tales of how the kid needs to earn the right to talk to them).  

The childs home may be the problem, the family may be unhealthy and needs time to heal.  

Ah but the kid is the one who is sent away.  The kid is the one made to feel responsible for the families issues.  The kid is the one who ends up feeling abandoned and inadequate and unloved and scared to death....NOT the fucking parent.