Author Topic: Help Me Please!!  (Read 10173 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 04:04:00 PM »
where's that moderator with the BS Meter? Seems like delete time!
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2006, 04:07:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-06-06 12:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


Quote
On 2006-06-06 11:11:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:


"I have heard parents report that their psychiatrist recommended "wilderness" because they had received a brochure in the mail and "it looked nice."  



Post the link.


Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =60#179065


There goes your argument.  If you spent a little bit of time fact-checking, rather than relentlessly trolling my posts to get a jab in, you  wouldn't look as ignorant as you do now.

Have a great day.

To the parent looking into things, it will serve you well to understand that some program parents that post here are not interested in facts or research.  They are on an never-ending mission to justify their own poor parenting choices and they do this through continual ad hominem attacks against survivors of abusive programs, clinicians, former employees or anyone who disagrees with their factually unsubstantiated dogma.  Just be aware that these people, like the woman who posted before, have an agenda only to discredit or smear people with different points of view because their point of view is entirely unsupported by research.  Their last resort is "flame wars" to derail the subject.

Some of them also get "referral fees" for getting another parent to sign their child into a program.  These "bonuses" are typically around $1000/kid.  So be aware also that there is financial incentive for some of these vultures.
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Offline teachback

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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2006, 04:12:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: Three Springs Waygookin on 2006-06-06 20:10 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2006, 04:18:00 PM »
You are the ones with the agenda.  My kid went to Second Nature, did well there, came back home and we all think it was a good experience for him.  He actually liked it.  The Psychiatrist in question is not an employee of Second Nature. There are no Psychiatrists on staff at Second Nature that I know of. My son's Dr. did a good job of communicating with the therapists there as MY SON'S concerned physician.  It's called thouroughness and good medicine.  On the front side, he did his homework, liked the set-up and recommended we give it a try.

To the original poster:  I am not attacking anyone.  I do believe I am the one being attacked because I promote the program, any program.  I, too, was where you were four years ago.  We tried everything and I know it is a very scary time for you.  There are god-awful programs out there.   I'm just giving you my own personal recommendation.  I do not claim to be a professional.  You've been to a professional that gave you some advice.  We are a family that has been where you are and we made a good choice for OUR son.  That is all I can say.  I do not have statistics at my fingertips, and don't intend to spend the afternoon researching SNWP's effectiveness.  By all means, get several opinions.  You'll find this is a volitile subject and most people posting here are kids that SHOULD NOT have gone to a program of any kind.  Good luck.  It does get better.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2006, 04:18:00 PM »
think struggling parents have already invaded.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2006, 04:21:00 PM »
Second Nature does not give referral fees of any kind.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2006, 04:22:00 PM »
After your son completed wilderness at Second Nature; what long-term program did you enroll him in?  How long was he in this long-term program?
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2006, 04:32:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: Three Springs Waygookin on 2006-06-06 20:15 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2006, 04:33:00 PM »
He came home after Second Nature and continued out-patient therapy.  He continues to see a therapist every two weeks now and may continue to do so as long as he would like to.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2006, 04:39:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: Three Springs Waygookin on 2006-06-06 20:15 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2006, 04:46:00 PM »
To the original poster:  I think you are now quite able to see how one-sided this forum gets.  I just stop by from time to time to give my personal story.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2006, 04:51:00 PM »
Wow ... a whole bunch of responses, but not really complete.

I believe that for many adolescents and young adults a therapeutic wilderness program can have great value.  While I don't think SUWS "abusive", others may have a different view of what constitutes abuse.  Finally, I keep seeing reference to "studies" that purportedly "prove" wilderness (and other programs) ineffective or worse, but have only been directed to a couple that studied a smallish group of atypical, court-adjudicated kids - atypical as in not very similar backgrounds or issues to those whose parents make the placement decision.

All that said, I think 12 is a bit on the young side for wilderness.  If he's not especially athletic, that will work against him as well.

You say your son is a "very troubled boy".  What are those troubles?  What, besides psychiatrist visits (and medication? - which could also be problematic in wilderness), have you done to help?  Have you tried working with the local schools to get in-school supports/help or to find an alternative school?

If, in the end, you do decide to use a wilderness program, you should know that there are a few that are costly and largely ineffective, a few that are less costly and sort-of "run of the mill", several excellent but costly and quite varied programs, and a few excellent, low-cost programs for early intervention, not well-developed problems.  NONE of these programs are enough in and of themselves.  If you haven't figured out what you will do for follow-up, do that first.

For planning purposes - figure that wilderness will cost from $10,000 to $30,000, and a residential therapeutic placement can easily run $5,000+ per month for 9 - 20+ months.  Be sure before you start down that road.  And, half a good program may well be worse than none.

So, while I disagree with disfunctional presumptions and pseudo-facts, I agree that you've a long way to go first, and what you are considering is not the first, or second, or third choice.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2006, 05:08:00 PM »
Original poster:  I'm sorry to say that I just looked at the Second Nature website and they begin taking kids at 13 years of age.  My son was 16.  Good luck.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2006, 05:28:00 PM »
Quote
I believe that for many adolescents and young adults a therapeutic wilderness program can have great value.


Can you support this statement with any research studies or independent documentation?  Or is this just your opinion?  

If it's just your opinion, please tell us what your educational background is in psychology/sociology that would lead you to a reasonable, fact-based assessment of the "great value" these facilities provide.

Also, I think you must not have read much of the research available.  You seem to be only referring to a single study that, in your opinion, doesn't apply.  It's failrly obvious that you have quite a bit more reading to do before you can comment intelligently on the research.  I've pointed out many, many sources to research studies, professional journals, policy statements, etc.  You should do a little more work before you call documented truths "pseudo-facts."

If you don't care to look at the dispositive evidence, please simply provide evidence of efficacy other than your opinion or some anecdotes.

Thanks.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2006, 05:38:00 PM »
If the "mom" posting and testifying about Second Nature is actually "Karen," then she also posts on Struggling Teens as Hstreet, and just posted there that she has just recently changed her name to Random Walk. STRANGE, STRANGE.

The orginal "mom" looking for advice: you have a 12 year old little boy. Kids die in these wilderness programs, and that is a FACT.
Pull up the names Aaron Bacon, or Michelle Sutton: and that is only two out of many children who have died in wilderness programs.

Think hard before you send this boy off.
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