Author Topic: Population increase  (Read 19644 times)

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Offline Troll Control

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2006, 08:38:44 PM »
Quote from: ""Honesty""
Unfortunately Odie, I don't have any connections at Daytop. But let me say 10 years of misguided loyalty? That seems excessive, don't you think. If your experience was soooooo horrible as a resident why seek employment? As for Chapel Hill, enlighten me: :exclaim:  Now the fact remains that the Daytop program does help people. It is unfortunate whenever individuals believe they are more important then that, it does however happen. As with life you can't judge things on one or even a few poor experiences. The totality of the program is what counts. As the program grew and continues to grow, you will always have individuals who are not true to the cause. I to had many of a bad experience with individuals. At times I even questioned the purpose. But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people. Regardless of what you experienced in Texas, NY, NJ or Fl, I'm sure that you also experienced the Good. I know many of a good person who worked in Daytop Texas. You should inform people of the bad or wrongs as well as the Good the program does.


i wonder if you have any idea how condescending and strange you sound.  you seem like a pretty creepy person trying to recruit other flakes.  "true to the cause"?  this alone shows how culty and strange daytop was and still is.  when i read your posts i feel like i need a shower.  you do a lot of condescending preaching (a daytop hallmark) and that only hurts whatever message you're trying to get across.  we call people like you "daytopians" - strange people who practice the opposite of what they preach.  not a good image at all for pimping a program.
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Offline odie

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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2006, 07:50:28 AM »
Ahhh....no connections huh? I think you do and I just struck a big nerve with Chapell Hill. You knew so many people from Texas and Florida huh? Just name a few and who do they work for now?
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Offline Anonymous

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The Truth
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2006, 08:38:56 AM »
Preaching Ha, Well if thats what you call telling the truth so be it. It's amazing how people find it so easy to lie. That's the issue. Anyone can claim anything, you have to have facts. As for my connections at Daytop they don't exsist. In fact I only have contact with one or two people who I worked with in the 80's and 90's. Now for a few names, no problem - Mike G (deceased), Michele - who know's, Ed (deceased). I know Mike G. worked in both locations. SO explain.
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Offline odie

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« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2006, 09:29:21 AM »
Well I see you don't know very much. Mike G. was run out of Dallas and replaced by Michelle H. who now works for Phoenix House as a director. Shame about Ed C., he was one of the better guys Daytop had at the time. As far as Florida is concerned when Mike G hooked up with that pompous pontificator Ed H., they screwed things up so bad Daytop had little choice but to leave and all their top people stayed on and went to work for Phoenix House. Don't be fooled by their cover up story that they couldn't run things the Daytop way. Phoenix House took over and are still there.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2006, 12:28:26 PM »
Odie, so you do actually have some credible information. At least partly. You are correct about Ed.S, He was a good man. As for Ed.H, I tend to agree with you about him being a pompous pontificator. You know I never personally liked. In fact I disagreed with his tone, behaviors and methods. I do however know you have incorrect information on Mike G. He was not run out of Texas at all. Unfortunately he was very sick. His health was the factor. Mike G. was a very good and caring Man.  He actually was very close with Ed.S and in some ways was a mentor to him.  As for Mike G. and Florida. He was sent to keep an eye on Florida. The powers that be were very concerned with Ed.H. Unfortunately Mike G. could not physically do it. He passed away in Ocala. Florida also was and still is a very corrections based state. The corrections department dictates the course of treatment and who enters and leaves. As for the staff who stayed. They were given the choice to pick up and leave Florida or stay on with Phoenix House.  Some went back to NY and some stayed. Very happy to hear that Michele is doing well. I always liked her and her husband.  SO again Odie, You fail to explain how the program is so bad. You also have not explained Chapel Hill.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2006, 12:34:50 PM »
Quote
But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people


Could you please provide a link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop?
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2006, 01:11:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people

Could you please provide a link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop?


I'd like to see that too.  The "Truth" likes to keep repeating that "Daytop helps" while asking for evidence of Odie's claims.  Truth, you haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Daytop actually does work (NO anecdotes, please.  Just scientific evidence like a longitudinal study).

I have a lot of experience with Daytop and I can't find anything "helpful" about it; from the abuse of residents to the deeply flawed "treatment model."

Please, stop preaching and start teaching.  Please post the results of clinical studies that prove Daytop's efficacy.

Thank you.
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Offline odie

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« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2006, 03:02:18 PM »
You will not find any positive findings research because no independent research has ever been done and "Honesty" knows it.What you may find is internal outcomes studies that will reflect like most programs the longer you stay, the longer you stay clean. On the other hand there is a boat load of independent research that shows how the archaic techniques used by TC's under the mask olf behavioral modification therapy is abusive, and in some forms illegal. Was I a part of this at one time? Indeed I was. When I rebelled against their tactics I was branded a malcontent. FinallyI gave up my fight and moved away. Abuse at Daytop wasn't just from staff to resident but also from senior staff to lower staff. I will niether forgive nor forget that. :wave:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2006, 06:36:20 AM »
The  link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop is: http://wwf.fornits.com. My proof that Daytop works is Odie.
 I'm sure I could research Daytop and come back with a number of studies saying one thing or another, You will find something wrong with it. My only to question to you all is to define success?  Odie is living proof that daytop works as are a number of people who posted on this site. Odie, I'm still waiting for the info on Chapel Hill.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2006, 12:07:42 PM »
Quote from: ""Honesty""
The  link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop is: http://wwf.fornits.com. My proof that Daytop works is Odie.
 I'm sure I could research Daytop and come back with a number of studies saying one thing or another, You will find something wrong with it. My only to question to you all is to define success?  Odie is living proof that daytop works as are a number of people who posted on this site. Odie, I'm still waiting for the info on Chapel Hill.


And you were supposedly employed there?  Yet you cannot even identify what a clinical trial is or if there was one performed in regard to Daytop?

You see, this is the problem with Daytop: uneducated, program grad hacks and quacks trying to provide "therapy" for residents.  Honesty, you don't belong anywhere near a client in any therapeutic capacity.

When you're asked for specific information, you pull the standard Daytop BS.  Show the research, or concede the point like an adult, Honesty.  You are a shining example of all that's WRONG with Daytop, not what's RIGHT.  Sheesh.
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Offline odie

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2006, 03:52:41 PM »
Quote from: ""Honesty""
The  link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop is: http://wwf.fornits.com. My proof that Daytop works is Odie.
 I'm sure I could research Daytop and come back with a number of studies saying one thing or another, You will find something wrong with it. My only to question to you all is to define success?  Odie is living proof that daytop works as are a number of people who posted on this site. Odie, I'm still waiting for the info on Chapel Hill.

No actually Odie is living proof that once you leave Daytop you can see it for what it really is.  I succeeded in life not because of Daytop but of all the hard work I did and continue to do. If you want to call warehousing people until they clean themselves up and look real good on the outside a measure of success then yes Daytop can work for some people, usually only the ones that are on death's doorstep to begin with as I was.
As far as Chappell Hill is concerned that was one of the bigger messes that Daytop got into. They opened that adolescent Texas facility in 1991 and lost their license in 1994. It had a wonderful history from hiring a wanted felon (child molestor), to a director that was caught lying on video tape at a community meeting about staff having firearms on the property. Then there were the many runaways that caused damage to neighbors' property including stealing the local Fire Chief's car. Oh and I'd be remiss to forget the assaults on kids by staff. All in all a place that Daytop would very much like to forget.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2006, 01:29:39 PM »
Odie, I'm very happy for your continued success. No matter what the reason or method, is that you changed the fact is that you did. I'm also sure Daytop assisted in some way. That's the issue. You seem to have had some good experiences as well as bad. Both should be discussed. Yes, Daytop has made mistakes. No body denies that. The issue is that they try and do help people. I?m very sure that Daytop did not plan to go to Texas, New York, Florida or anywhere else with a master plan to hurt people. Just like in a hospital or other types of treatment, some individuals make poor decisions. The intent of the program is what?s important. When issues arise they must be addressed. The fact is Daytop has addressed them and has also made numerous changes to better the program. This you know and can?t deny. I believe the common practice to treat lepers was to place them in isolation; to treat mental illness was to hospitalize people or hide them away. Shock Therapy was at one time considered appropriate treatment.  

 Now to address the question of clinical trials. Numerous studies have been done on both an Internal and external basis. You are correct in saying that the longer you stay in treatment the better the outcome. In fact that is what Daytop has been saying for years. I found numerous sites that back this information up (http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReport ... fault.html, http://www.substanceabusepolicy.com/content/1/1/3, http://www.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/144.pdf. More can be listed, but I will not waste my time since no matter what they say; you, I?m sure will argue it. Oh, and yes, you can find numerous studies to counter these findings. The issue in the field is how to define success? This question must first be answered to achieve a true study of success.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2006, 09:07:56 AM »
neither article can be found :question:
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2006, 11:12:07 AM »
And neither has to do with Daytop.  My question:  After decades in "the business," why hasn't Daytop ever conducted a single, solitary study of their outcomes?  

My suspicion is because they keep no data and have no interest in exposing anything about themselves to public scrutiny.  They keep their mouths shut because if they don't there will be no denying that they are full of bologna, to put it nicely.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2006, 08:41:40 PM »
Well if you have decades in the business then should know that in order for an outcome study to be proven accurate it must be conducted by an independent party. These articles speak directly to the TC Concept. Daytop has done many outcome studies that report very successful numbers. I know that quoting these will only solicit a response from YOU saying they are lying. So let's look at the whole picture. The reports that I listed speak about the TC concept and treatment method. The national average for positive outcomes is in the 34 - 39 percentile for success. Both the medical model and behavioral model are very similar in numbers. Daytop and for that matter TC's have a higher rate of success. These reports acknowledge that. The issue with outcomes and Substance abuse treatment is how to define success. If a person enters treatment and they had previously been committing crimes (Robbery, Theft etc) and using on a Dailey basis (Heroin, Cocaine). After treatment they remain Substance free for 5 - 10 years, are employed paying taxes and being productive. Then have a set back on marijuana 1 time. Are these people a failure. If they never commit a new crime and maintain some level of being responsible are they a failure. Mr. Know it all answer that. Give your description of success.
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