Come Back, finally a breath of fresh air!

[Anonymous]

The program saves our lives from what they would have become.  No, we didn't have life threatening diseases before the program; we did however make life threatening choices.  It's true what you say, I?m sure many of those who claim the program "saved their lives" would have eventually snapped out of the pattern of life we were living before the program, the problem is that so many poor choices are made until we "snap out" of it that our lives can be ruined.  For example, before I was sent to the program I was a high school drop out, before dropping out I maintained a 1.9 gpa, I was regularly using drugs, selling drugs, and participating in several activities that would have put me in prison for year had I been caught.  I was 17 when I was sent to the program, and my life had been violently spinning out of control since I was 13, I'm sure eventually I would have gotten over it, maybe after some serious prison time, or maybe even just a few short years later.  The problem is I still would have been a high school drop out with no real future!  Thankfully my parents intervened and sent me to the program, I graduated after 11 months and made my way back out into the world, the future is certainly brighter for me today, and I owe much of that to the program, which I graduated 6 years ago.  I'm a senior in college now, maintaining a 4.0 gpa, and I will be attending an Ivy league graduate program in the fall.  My plans for the future are promising and exciting, so much different than what they would have been just a few short years ago before the program.  Don't bother arguing with, or criticizing my post boys, after all life certainly is based on results, you can call it program jargon if you want, but it's the absolute truth, look at bill gates, Donald trump, or even Oprah, i'm sure they would agree it's results that matter more than anything.  You can come on here and rant and rave about how the program is abusive, and how you were mistreated while you were there, but then we look at the lives of the countless teens like myself who?s lives were literally saved in these programs and we are faced with a choice, believe those who claim abuse, or those who are thriving in life and grateful for the time in the program, sorry boys and girls but our voices, examples and results are and always will be louder and stronger than a few whiney voices claiming that the programs don't work!

[Anonymous]

Either a troll or bullshit.

I'm going to guess... both.

[MightyAardvark]

hey anon, my email is [email protected]
I would just love to find out your experiences in these programs, to find out where you are now and what you're up to. I mean my research is nothing if it's not even handed.
Email me if you really wanna tell your side of the story.

The Roman Catholic Church had a policy of burning all pre-Columbian information as pagan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian' target='_new'>Wiki

[Anonymous]

Just spoiled brats who think their minor teenage antics amount to a death defying experience. Their rich parents pay to have them forcibly brainwashed to learn this. Obviously some minds are more accessible than some. You are just seeing the result of brainwashing, and how effective it can be on some people.

[Anonymous]

Results are everything?

That depends on the results.

One of the great problems with our society is that it seems to reward behavior and attidutes that we specifically teach our children to be wrong. Very often, greedy, selfish, people who have no moral compunctions against the exploitation of others to obtain fame and wealth for themselves are rewarded. They are 'successful.'

People with compassion, a sense of fairness and justice, a sense of service to others who wish to make a positive difference in the world are often excluded from positions of wealth and power because they are not willing to make the kinds of choices needed to aquire this kind of success.

Having worked in the corporate world for over 20 years , I can attest to difficulties confronting ordinary people when they are required to make decisions where the bottom line over rules common decency and basic values. People often rationalize to defend decisions that advance their careers at the expense of acting in a way they know to be right.

Maybe programs achieve results, maybe they don't and we have seen many threads and arguments surrounding the efficicacy issue without any convincing outcome for either side. So I will not argue whether or not programs achieve the results you claim.

Instead, I will hope that as you go through life, you will come to understand that results are not as important as you think.

As an employer, I once attended a training seminar in which they taught that managers should not be judged as much on the results of their decisions as they should be judged on the method by which the decisions were made. Results are tricky things because there are so many factors beyond our control.

It has often been said that, "The ends does not justify the means." No where is this more revelant or important than in considering these programs. The rationalization that these programs are the 'last resort' does not fly. That argument is nothing but an excuse. Torture is not justified by saying it works. Torture is not justified by saying nothing else worked and there was no other option. Torture is never an option.

It is never acceptable to treat human beings the way they are treated in these programs. The results are not important. Kidnapping are programming are not acceptable methods; not even if the intention is to save someone's life.

[AtomicAnt]

I forgot to log in. That last post was mine.

[Badpuppy]

On 2006-05-20 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The program saves our lives from what they would have become.  No, we didn't have life threatening diseases before the program; we did however make life threatening choices.  It's true what you say, I?m sure many of those who claim the program "saved their lives" would have eventually snapped out of the pattern of life we were living before the program, the problem is that so many poor choices are made until we "snap out" of it that our lives can be ruined.  For example, before I was sent to the program I was a high school drop out, before dropping out I maintained a 1.9 gpa, I was regularly using drugs, selling drugs, and participating in several activities that would have put me in prison for year had I been caught.  I was 17 when I was sent to the program, and my life had been violently spinning out of control since I was 13, I'm sure eventually I would have gotten over it, maybe after some serious prison time, or maybe even just a few short years later.  The problem is I still would have been a high school drop out with no real future!  Thankfully my parents intervened and sent me to the program, I graduated after 11 months and made my way back out into the world, the future is certainly brighter for me today, and I owe much of that to the program, which I graduated 6 years ago.  I'm a senior in college now, maintaining a 4.0 gpa, and I will be attending an Ivy league graduate program in the fall.  My plans for the future are promising and exciting, so much different than what they would have been just a few short years ago before the program.  Don't bother arguing with, or criticizing my post boys, after all life certainly is based on results, you can call it program jargon if you want, but it's the absolute truth, look at bill gates, Donald trump, or even Oprah, i'm sure they would agree it's results that matter more than anything.  You can come on here and rant and rave about how the program is abusive, and how you were mistreated while you were there, but then we look at the lives of the countless teens like myself who?s lives were literally saved in these programs and we are faced with a choice, believe those who claim abuse, or those who are thriving in life and grateful for the time in the program, sorry boys and girls but our voices, examples and results are and always will be louder and stronger than a few whiney voices claiming that the programs don't work!"

This is nothing more than a WWASP professional marketer. For parents new to this, it is called a TROLL. There are some telltale signs of this. This person refuses to engage in any debate about ethics or practices. Their arguement is that the ends justifies the means.

THE LOUDEST WHINEY VOICE CLAIMING THE PROGRAM DOESN'T WORK IS THE US GOVERNMENT IN THE SURGEON GENERALS REPORT. The WWASPS justify the use a torture such as chemical spraying on a daily basis, isolation for up to 18 months a time, dislocated shoulders, subjection to brainwashing techniques, and other tortures unaccepted by the civilized world as appropriate treatment. So if you want to hurt your child, and get even with him for giving you a hard time their is no better program than a WWASP program.

For some peculiar reason I think that Oprah, Gates and Trump would find it offensive to have their names used to support child torture.[ This Message was edited by:  on 2006-05-20 14:51 ][ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-05-20 15:22 ]

[Anonymous]

There are some other key pieces to help identify a troll, namely their ignorance and inability to properly use the English language.  The poster said "who's" instead of "whose", can't capitalize properly, and the run-ons and punctuation are horrendous.  A college grad would proofread and spellcheck, but a WWASP Utah hick remains uneducated and embarrasses their institution on a regular basis when he/she attempts to engage in simple communication.  No way this idiot really has a 4.0.  Also, they're anonymous as usual.  Classic trolling.

[Anonymous]

Guess what little sister,


The results I saw was a dislocated shoulder. A lack of education. A traumatized kid from who the hell knows why. Too ashamed to share.

Fuck off. Save your bullshit for people who dont know the real truth about your sick program.

Someday a day of accountability will come.
Get a life.

(I hate that phony ass word)

[MightyAardvark]

You know I'm reluctant to dismiss these people simply as trolls. I'd hope that by engaging them in argument asn debate we could actually settle an issue, possibly bring some people over to our way of thinking. Perhaps this person genuinely does believe that the outcome justifies the means, which is a difficult viewpoint to sympathise withbut you can't say it's not a valid one. In light of that viewpoit i'd like to ask the poster this...
research indicates that out of those who graduate the programs (roughly forty percent overall by WWASPS own figures) twenty percent will either return to their problem behaviour, or develop new problem behviours within one year. Seventy percent will develop news behaviours or return to their problem behaviours (usually drug use) within fifteen years.
So what I'm saying here is that the best research we've got indicates that in the long run WWASPS is only effective in 4 percent of cases.
Now if we look at another set of data we get a very interesting image thrown up.
by their own admission, only roughly twenty percent of students have diagnosable mental problems when they enter a WWASPS insitution.
The remainder could simply be considered "difficult" kids
Of those twenty percent none at all have ever reported a significant attenuation of the symptoms of their disorder. Kids with mental problems were often simply cracked down on harder. Of those students I have interviewd approximately half have been diagnosed with additional traumatic disorders subsequent to leaving the program.
Of the remaining eighty percent, approximately five percent manifest psychological problems while still inside the program. Usually this is PTSD, parasuicidal behaviour, or depression.
Twenty percent display symptoms of psychological disorder within five years and sixty percent display symptoms within fifteen years.
SO what I want this anon to tell me is this, precisely what outcome is he saying justifies the means to get it.
Is he referring to the ninety six percent failure rate, the emotional damage inflicted on eighty percent of participants or the stupendous amounts of money these monsters make by using brutality and cruelty to enforce parental control.
That is the only things these places do, they impose parental control at the cost of emotional destruction.
does that end justify the means used?

It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was
made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to
govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be
masters.

--Daniel Webster

[ This Message was edited by: MightyAardvark on 2006-05-21 10:40 ]

[proudgrad]

Hey boys, it's me again the so called "troll".  To the moron who critized me saying that my use of who's rather than whose somehow suggest that I am lieing about my GPA, I'm not even going to bother to argue that, all I will say is that your ignorance is frightening.  To everyone else, first off I will say that I don't in anway work for WWASP or anyone affilitated with that program, as I previously stated I am simply a program graduate, and feel strongly indebted to the program for how much it helped me in my life.  I understand that many of you do not agree with me, I will simply agree to disagree, all I can say is that in all my time in the program I NEVER, not even once, saw anything that I would in anyway consider abusive.  Aardvark, where did you get these so called statistics that you are quoting?  I'm curious who conducted the research if it even exists, if the research does in fact exist I wonder what kind of methods they used to conduct it, such as sample sizes and so on.  I would love to tell you story aardvark, if you have yahoo msn messenger i'd enjoy chatting sometime.  As for the rest of the attacks on my post, once again I will say results are everything, they are undeniable, and my results speak much much louder than whiney, angry, hateful, and in my opinion completely false cries of mistreatment and abuse!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

As for the rest of the attacks on my post, once again I will say results are everything, they are undeniable, and my results speak much much louder than whiney, angry, hateful, and in my opinion completely false cries of mistreatment and abuse!!!!!!

There are anti-wwasp and anti-SCL groups over at myspace with hundreds, and now over thousands of members. There is one pro-wwasp group with about 30 members, some of which never even attended a program. You are but one voice in a sea and the current is flowing against you, hard. Free your mind, it's a wonderful think.

Several students have confirmed that current staff and former staff use hard drugs such as meth. What a wonderful place for a child.  :roll:

[Badpuppy]

On 2006-05-21 16:29:00, proudgrad wrote:

"Hey boys, it's me again the so called "troll".  To the moron who critized me saying that my use of who's rather than whose somehow suggest that I am lieing about my GPA, I'm not even going to bother to argue that, all I will say is that your ignorance is frightening.  To everyone else, first off I will say that I don't in anway work for WWASP or anyone affilitated with that program, as I previously stated I am simply a program graduate, and feel strongly indebted to the program for how much it helped me in my life.  I understand that many of you do not agree with me, I will simply agree to disagree, all I can say is that in all my time in the program I NEVER, not even once, saw anything that I would in anyway consider abusive.  Aardvark, where did you get these so called statistics that you are quoting?  I'm curious who conducted the research if it even exists, if the research does in fact exist I wonder what kind of methods they used to conduct it, such as sample sizes and so on.  I would love to tell you story aardvark, if you have yahoo msn messenger i'd enjoy chatting sometime.  As for the rest of the attacks on my post, once again I will say results are everything, they are undeniable, and my results speak much much louder than whiney, angry, hateful, and in my opinion completely false cries of mistreatment and abuse!!!!!!"

Sociopaths absolutely agree with you. Just like you, they have no concern for how they acheive their results. Results are everything to them. If you went to a college you need a tuition refund. Your program uses troubled kids to discipline other troubled kids in a way that prolongs incarceration. There is no prison in the nation that gives inmates that kind of power. Your program transfers kids to Tranquility Bay thereby endorsing its methods of discipline. The owner admits to making a girl lie on her face for 18 months. He admits to pepper spraying kids daily for months at time. The owner doesn't feel that it is abusive for staff members to have sex with their residents. He is so sociopathic he obviously doesn't think it is wrong to use methods unaccepted by the civilized world to get results.
You are a troll. Your not going into any Ivy League program and the only school you could have a 4.0 grade point average gives mail order diplomas. The only reason you even answered these posts is to get aardvark to reveal as much as he can about his research.

[Anonymous]

<<>>

It's "lying", not "lieing".  

<<>>

Believe it or not, they don't.

[MightyAardvark]

[email protected]
come find me.

for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.    
--Alexander Hamilton