Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry

John Hubner Book- Criminal Youth

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Anonymous:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/037550 ... oding=UTF8

I would be interested in the thoughts of DJ and TSW, in particular, on this book. It is excellent, and reads like a novel. It deals with a different type of kid than is discussed on these boards, but some of the therapeutic methods may strike you as inappropriate. The program is very effective and unique.
I read this book in a context completely unrelated to struggling teens, programs etc., but found a lot of it relevant to some of the issues here.
I would say it is a "must read" for anyone interested in the therapeutic treatment of youth.
Karen

Anonymous:
DJ- your thoughts appreciated, too.

Nihilanthic:

--- Quote ---Hubner focuses on Elena and Ronnie, two young offenders at Giddings, as they are forced to confront and make sense of their pasts, re-enacting the most traumatic scenes of their childhoods and their crimes.
--- End quote ---

Um... right. Confrontational, "cathartic" type 'treatment' is bullshit, and has been for a long time. This is just a texas toast version of it. Also, EMOTIONAL TRAUMA AND CONFRONATION is a good way to get people to buy the book, in sort of the same way guys go "OMG THERE WAS A CAR WRECK" and people come running.

Doesnt really bode well, lets read on...


--- Quote ---Hubner underscores the TYC's success in contrast to national recidivism rates for youthful offenders, which hover between 50% and 60%; a 2004 study reported that only 10% of graduates of the school's Capital Offenders group have been rearrested for a violent crime after three years on parole.
--- End quote ---


I wonder what the recidivism rate is for graduates that commit crimes that DONT make it those three years on parole, and/or non violent crimes. Its a pretty empty statistic, because it is specific to violent crimes, and specific to those who make it through the three years of probation.

Also, I dont know what the rate was beforehand in the first place.

But hey... it manages to use abusive, ineffective treatment to make kids who manage to go through 3 yrs of probation not commit violent crimes 90% of the time after that.


Personally Id rather have a free, peer-reviewed study than a damn book, but thats just me.

Anonymous:
Niles- read it and see what you think. I am really interested in your input. It is a very confrontational program, but when you read about the family history of these kids and the crimes they committed, it puts a different light on things. It is fascinating and does show the good and the bad of this type of therapy.

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---On 2006-05-16 06:13:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"
--- Quote ---Hubner focuses on Elena and Ronnie, two young offenders at Giddings, as they are forced to confront and make sense of their pasts, re-enacting the most traumatic scenes of their childhoods and their crimes.
--- End quote ---



Um... right. Confrontational, "cathartic" type 'treatment' is bullshit, and has been for a long time. This is just a texas toast version of it. Also, EMOTIONAL TRAUMA AND CONFRONATION is a good way to get people to buy the book, in sort of the same way guys go "OMG THERE WAS A CAR WRECK" and people come running.



Doesnt really bode well, lets read on...




--- Quote ---Hubner underscores the TYC's success in contrast to national recidivism rates for youthful offenders, which hover between 50% and 60%; a 2004 study reported that only 10% of graduates of the school's Capital Offenders group have been rearrested for a violent crime after three years on parole.
--- End quote ---



I wonder what the recidivism rate is for graduates that commit crimes that DONT make it those three years on parole, and/or non violent crimes. Its a pretty empty statistic, because it is specific to violent crimes, and specific to those who make it through the three years of probation.



Also, I dont know what the rate was beforehand in the first place.



But hey... it manages to use abusive, ineffective treatment to make kids who manage to go through 3 yrs of probation not commit violent crimes 90% of the time after that.





Personally Id rather have a free, peer-reviewed study than a damn book, but thats just me. "

--- End quote ---


Niles--haven't read the book, not cheerleading for it, but with the "three years" you've completely misunderstood what they're saying.

What they're saying is that for everybody that graduated, they followed them for three years, and during that three years only 10% got re-arrested for violent crime.

This, if they're doing it right, should be compared to national recidivism rates of youthful offenders, that didn't go into their program, within the three years after release.

The latter would be their control group, effectively.

There *is* a flaw in their quoted success rates, but it's not the one you're alleging.

They're only focusing on the *graduates* of the Capital Offeners group.

How do we know that the really hard cases didn't drop out somehow without graduating?  How do we know their CO group is "succeeding" at doing anything but cherry-picking the least criminal of the youthful offenders?  We don't.

You see this problem of how places report their "success rates" in some drug rehab places, too.  Some of them report only the success rates among graduates, compared to spontaneous remission of untreated addicts.

The better drug rehabs report their success rates based on "intent to treat"---that is, they follow everyone who started their treatment, whether they graduated rehab or not, and compare those success rates to the spontaneous remission rates.

What we'd need to see, then, is the percent of re-arrest after three years on parole of all the kids who *started* participating in the Capital Offenders group.

That said, my whole point of opposing teen behavior mod Programs is that they treat teens who have never been convicted of any crime, in a fair trial, like convicted criminals---that Programs are essentially private prisons.

I don't have a problem with treating convicted criminals like convicted criminals.  Some people deserve real prison.

If they work, do these rehabs traumatize the convicted criminals?  My heart just bleeds for them.  I care more about their victims.  So long as the criminal is *choosing* the rehab program to get less time and has the option, always, of dropping out of that program and just doing his time.

Wild teens are not convicted criminals.

However, convicted criminals *are* convicted criminals.

To me, that's the whole point.

Julie

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