Second Nature Wilderness Program

[Nihilanthic]

The kids at Second Nature are not treated badly.  

Says you.

I bet 99% of the kids would NOT make that claim.  

Not until they're outside of the influence of coercion, home contracts or exit plans anyway...

They do some things outside their comfort zones.

Yet again more misquoting of psychology to excuse creating anxiety to pressure people into doing things, breaking them down and brainwashing them. Joy.


 

In fact, they might be mighty uncomfortable for awhile.  

See above.

Yes, it is involuntary.  Tough luck.  

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! Wait, What?

They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there.

Again, says who? Have you somehow missed all the kids sent off who were doing just all of that fine? And at any rate, you do not give up human and civil rights because you act out, because most of the time kids act out if something is wrong and they need help... which they say a program is, NOT a punishment, until you change the argument in about 20 seconds. :roll:

They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.

You mean they're forced to accept what someone else tells them about what is going on, forced to write and confess, forced to speak and orally confess, and do what they're told?

They are not abused-

Again, says who?

certainly not to the extent they abused family members.

HAHA. Right. Is it or isn't it a punishment? And why the victim complexing? I wonder why Parent seminars don't come with folding port-a-crucifixes.

For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home

Does it matter? Nothing excuses abuse, and a lot of kids have DONE NOTHING WRONG, so yeah, pretty surprising I'd say.

and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive.

:roll: well of COURSE, if they don't admit to things they'll never get out of there, or are at least lead to believe that.

 

If you think these kids are there for smoking pot once or twice or skipping school, you are quite wrong.

Again, prove it, asshole.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is involuntary.  Tough luck.  They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there.  They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.
They are not abused- certainly not to the extent they abused family members.  For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive.

HAHA. Right. Is it or isn't it a punishment? And why the victim complexing? I wonder why Parent seminars don't come with folding port-a-crucifixes.

Hilarious. Do you think this is a troll saying offensive crap just to get people riled up, or a true believer? If it's a true believer they've disconnected from reality to the extent that they’ve no idea how horrifying they sound to non-involved parties.

Hint: pretending not to be evil in a public forum is a good idea if you're looking to convince people of the validity of your "therapy".
In the future, play down the "these children lost the right to live with their families" (after we received the check,) angle.

This works in groups with abusive parents, where they're manipulated into misplacing their rage about their dissapointing lives onto the kids they've had abducted and imprisoned, until they “confess to all the horrible things they've done,â€

[Lain the Odd]

Whatever.

Not a very convincing troll. ^.^

[Anonymous]

What they do is not illegal because children are little more than property until they turn 18. Some of the things that are done there might get a parent in trouble with the law if they were done by the parent at home, but when done out in the woods by strangers in the name of therapy, it's all just fine.

The whole idea of education credits cracks me up. Especially the one about creative writing. Some kids just fill their journal with page after page of "fuck second nature". I can't believe they get school credit for that.

[TheWho]

Hey Tookie, what you doin here in da woods?

Checking out this here wilderness program I keep hearin ‘bout.  
Never seen so many trees in my life and I’ve been around for over 16 years now.  
What up with the guy in the yellow shirt?  Whats it say? “Staffâ€

[Oz girl]

The kids at Second Nature are not treated badly.  I bet 99% of the kids would NOT make that claim.  They do some things outside their comfort zones.  In fact, they might be mighty uncomfortable for awhile.  Yes, it is involuntary.  Tough luck.  They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there.  They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.
They are not abused- certainly not to the extent they abused family members.  For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive.  If you think these kids are there for smoking pot once or twice or skipping school, you are quite wrong.

On one hand you are saying this is not a punishment and on the other you are saying these kids put their families through hell so don't deserve a voice. Which is it?
It is also interesting you mention these impact letters. Allowing for the fact that some kids might be real nightmares how is coerced confession morally justifiable? If such a thing is used on criminal suspects it is disregarded by a court because it is not legitimate. this is true even in the cases of those who have been previously convicted of serious crimes. But many programs are quite open about making kids rewrite confessions to tell what it sees as the "whole truth" Is it that this program is the exception or that you see nothing wrong with allowing minors less rights than adult criminals?

[TheWho]

The kids at Second Nature are not treated badly.  I bet 99% of the kids would NOT make that claim.  They do some things outside their comfort zones.  In fact, they might be mighty uncomfortable for awhile.  Yes, it is involuntary.  Tough luck.  They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there.  They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.
They are not abused- certainly not to the extent they abused family members.  For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive.  If you think these kids are there for smoking pot once or twice or skipping school, you are quite wrong.

On one hand you are saying this is not a punishment and on the other you are saying these kids put their families through hell so don't deserve a voice. Which is it?
It is also interesting you mention these impact letters. Allowing for the fact that some kids might be real nightmares how is coerced confession morally justifiable? If such a thing is used on criminal suspects it is disregarded by a court because it is not legitimate. this is true even in the cases of those who have been previously convicted of serious crimes. But many programs are quite open about making kids rewrite confessions to tell what it sees as the "whole truth" Is it that this program is the exception or that you see nothing wrong with allowing minors less rights than adult criminals?

I see this prison/criminal comparison brought up often.  I think one thing that is missing is many of you have never been parents, so I can see how it can be confusing for some.  When I was young I always felt I should have more freedoms than I did... it is a rush to adulthood that most kids are constantly struggling with.  You cant allow your children to have the same freedoms of any adult, whether they are in prison or not.  The law is very clear in this area.  Anyone who has been in an emergency room or knows someone who has worked there will tell you that kids cant be given wide open freedoms.  They see children who have fallen out of windows, ingested antifreeze, cut themselves with scissors, scalded themselves with hot water.  If children were placed in prisons they would have to be totally redesigned and would look nothing like the adult facilities because kids need to be supervised.

In this country, at least, children have less rights and freedoms than adults (in prison or not).  The only way to address or change this is to go after the justice system and try to get the laws changed, but until such time the schools and parents need to abide by them or they may go to jail themselves.



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[Che Gookin]

I bet you've never been abused in a shitpit. You have no clue what it is like to be in a situation where adults have total control over your life. I'm not talking about that 2 hour BDSM frolic you had down on Nana Plaza in Bangkok either.

[TheWho]

I bet you've never been abused in a shitpit.

No I haven’t.  But if I were I would be naming names and filing lawsuits against individuals.  I would not be wasting my time trying to tear down the whole industry and innocent people not involved.

You have no clue what it is like to be in a situation where adults have total control over your life…..

Prior to age 18, yes I do… since then I gained more and more control over my own life.

I'm not talking about that 2 hour BDSM frolic you had down on Nana Plaza in Bangkok either.

Well at least you showed a little respect and didn’t suggest I was down in the PatPong Market area…thank you.



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[Che Gookin]

I bet you've never been abused in a shitpit.

No I haven’t.  But if I were I would be naming names and filing lawsuits against individuals.  I would not be wasting my time trying to tear down the whole industry and innocent people not involved.

You have no clue what it is like to be in a situation where adults have total control over your life…..

Prior to age 18, yes I do… since then I gained more and more control over my own life.

I'm not talking about that 2 hour BDSM frolic you had down on Nana Plaza in Bangkok either.

Well at least you showed a little respect and didn’t suggest I was down in the PatPong Market area…thank you.



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There are no innocents in this sick business. What you and your family did prior to you being 18 in no way has any bearing on what a child suffers in a programme. Stop trying to connect the two as if they have any basis for comparison in the first place.

Pat Pong blows ass anyway.. nothing but creepy 60 year old aussies down their picking up 12 year olds.

[Che Gookin]

And consider yourself lucky I didn't accuse you of being a turd burglar down on Soi Cowboy you randy old bastard.

[TheWho]

There are no innocents in this sick business. What you and your family did prior to you being 18 in no way has any bearing on what a child suffers in a programme. Stop trying to connect the two as if they have any basis for comparison in the first place.

That is why I mentioned suing the individuals who did the abusing.  I am familiar with some of the schools in the industry.  To say they are all abusive is reckless at best and anyone who says they were abused by someone and then focuses their attention on accusing 500 to 1,000 schools is wasting everyone’s time and will probably fall on deaf ears, personally I would tend not to believe them myself.  I have seen people who have been abused and wronged and they want nothing more than to go after one person… look him/her in the eye and watch them go to prison.  If it is a rape case then it is a little more complicated to pursue because the child may feel intimidated and may have to take a softer or less direct approach.

The kids who are abused in the public school system go right after the teacher and individual school.  They don’t try to take down the entire school system from the federal level down, it’s a waste of time.



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[Nihilanthic]

The kids at Second Nature are not treated badly.  

Says you.

I bet 99% of the kids would NOT make that claim.  

Not until they're outside of the influence of coercion, home contracts or exit plans anyway...

They do some things outside their comfort zones.

Yet again more misquoting of psychology to excuse creating anxiety to pressure people into doing things, breaking them down and brainwashing them. Joy.


 

In fact, they might be mighty uncomfortable for awhile.  

See above.

Yes, it is involuntary.  Tough luck.  

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! Wait, What?

They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there.

Again, says who? Have you somehow missed all the kids sent off who were doing just all of that fine? And at any rate, you do not give up human and civil rights because you act out, because most of the time kids act out if something is wrong and they need help... which they say a program is, NOT a punishment, until you change the argument in about 20 seconds. :roll:

They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.

You mean they're forced to accept what someone else tells them about what is going on, forced to write and confess, forced to speak and orally confess, and do what they're told?

They are not abused-

Again, says who?

certainly not to the extent they abused family members.

HAHA. Right. Is it or isn't it a punishment? And why the victim complexing? I wonder why Parent seminars don't come with folding port-a-crucifixes.

For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home

Does it matter? Nothing excuses abuse, and a lot of kids have DONE NOTHING WRONG, so yeah, pretty surprising I'd say.

and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive.

:roll: well of COURSE, if they don't admit to things they'll never get out of there, or are at least lead to believe that.

 

If you think these kids are there for smoking pot once or twice or skipping school, you are quite wrong.

Again, prove it, asshole.

ALL ABOARD THE REPOSTING MY LINE BY LINE TRAIN!

[TheWho]

The kids at Second Nature are not treated badly. I bet 99% of the kids would NOT make that claim. They do some things outside their comfort zones. In fact, they might be mighty uncomfortable for awhile. Yes, it is involuntary. Tough luck. They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there. They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.
They are not abused- certainly not to the extent they abused family members. For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive. If you think these kids are there for smoking pot once or twice or skipping school, you are quite wrong.

The person seems to have knowledge of the place, we know that you dont, Niles.  You could learn something here.

[TheWho]

The kids at Second Nature are not treated badly. I bet 99% of the kids would NOT make that claim. They do some things outside their comfort zones. In fact, they might be mighty uncomfortable for awhile. Yes, it is involuntary. Tough luck. They weren't living within the bounds of household, school and community norms, and gave up the right to stay there. They get an opportunity to figure out what is going on with them, write a lot, talk it out and figure out what they want to do with their lives.
They are not abused- certainly not to the extent they abused family members. For those of you who have not been in this program, you would be surprised at what these kids have done in the home and what they admit to once the first impact letters arrive. If you think these kids are there for smoking pot once or twice or skipping school, you are quite wrong.

Don’t be discouraged by all the negative posts.  Most of the readers here are silent and appreciate your posts, the negative ones are by people trying to run down the industry as a whole and probably know very little about second nature.


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